How to beat Necrons?

[AyanamiKun]

I've been playing against a friend of mine who is very good with Necrons and lost several times, even though he considers them quite weak with their old codex. I just can't get to grasps on what to use against him. Vehicles are just glanced to death anyway while his Destroyers are so damn quick that they practically can be everywhere on the board and he uses 15 of them ...

 

Tactical Terminators did work quite well because they soak up his fire in high amounts but aside of that I am quite puzzled ...

 

Any advice from some veterans? :mellow:

[Iron Father Ferrum]

DXF's Maxims For Fighting Necrons (using Space Marines:

 

1.) Ignore the Monoliths. They're too tough to reliably kill. If you've got a conversion beamer shot in the sweet-spot (the long S10 AP1 range band), then maybe try to pop it, but other than that, ignore them. Sure, they can bring some of the 'Crons back up, but that's not how you beat Necrons. Which leads me to number two. . .

 

2.) Phase them out. Concentrate your fire on "Necron" models; that is, the ones who count towards the Phase Out number. Monoliths, Pariahs, Scarab Swarms, and Tomb Spiders are all out the window. If you can force a Phase Out, you win -- period.

 

3.) Plasma is your friend. Crons don't have any armored personnel carriers; with the exception of Destroyers, they have to slog it across the table. Plasma being AP2 cuts through the standard We'll Be Back rule, and without a transport, you should have plenty of time to hammer them with plasma cannons (which, incidentally, come on the cheap in Tactical Squads). Plus, plasma's S7 is enough to wound those pesky Destroyers on a 2+ and knock 'em out of the sky. If you're a fan of Sternguard, remember that you can slap a couple of plasma cannons in there and then stack Hellfire wounds on the enemy as well -- two blasts to whittle them down and then you can try to overwhelm their saves with the bolt rounds.

 

4.) Assault the Destroyers. Sure, they're T5, but they're also I2 with one base attack. Take a bike squad of your own, plop a powerfist on the sergeant, and charge them. The odds are in your favor now -- our bikes can go in squads bigger than five, we strike first, and we can take a special close combat weapon to nullify We'll Be Back.

 

 

That's all I can think of for now. It's been about a year and a half since I last played against Necrons, so I'm sure someone else will come along with more to say.

[afrodude112]

scout missle the destroyers.

this involves giving sarge a power fist and infiltraiting 18in away, then take a 6in scout move, then 6in movement and finish with a 6in assault.

be warned this requires that you get first turn

 

my 17 cents

[Panda_]

3.) Plasma is not your friend. Crons don't have any armored personnel carriers; with the exception of Destroyers, they have to slog it across the table. Plasma being AP2 doesn't cuts through the standard We'll Be Back rule.

 

Sorry there, Plasma doesn't prohibits them to be back. It doesn't cause instant death. It isn't a CCW that allow no saves. We will be back is way stronger than FNP if some of your friend can wake you up.

 

You have missiles. Right ? They won't recover from those shots. Melee fights are a good options to remove their units entirely. But remember, even with PF or a PW tacticals will have a hard time to cause enough wounds to make them flee (Ld 10). You need specialised units. They don't need to be Deathrollers, but bring something better than Tacticals. Neither count on your bolters to reduce their numbers. Assault Marines with Meltas are a good options. And watch out for those 20 Necrons groups.

 

You should also kill their Lord with the Orb quickly, or they will recover from even Lascanons.

[Meatman]

scout missle the destroyers.

this involves giving sarge a power fist and infiltraiting 18in away, then take a 6in scout move, then 6in movement and finish with a 6in assault.

be warned this requires that you get first turn

 

my 17 cents

 

 

When you finish your scout move you have to be AT LEAST 12" away. So no first turn charges without Shrike to give you fleet I'm afraid.

 

 

 

Sweeping advance will completely destroy the squads with no coming back. Try 2 land speeder storms with power weapon armed sergeants and combat blades. The necrons get -4 leadership if you charge them with both squads, and the sheer amount of attacks the scout have will allow you to win the combat, make them fail, catch them in a sweeping advance.

 

Scouts get back in the storms, and hit another squad. Rinse, and repeat.

[Kay]

I don't see the Storms surviving the necron shooting phase...

 

I'm surprised no one has suggested vindicators yet... Str10 ap1 pie is ultimate doom for Arnie wannabe's

[The_son_of_Dorn]

dam you ya beat me too it! :lol:

 

Yeah vindicators or any long range form of weaponry that can keep the necs of your back, also depends on his playing style, is he a tactical (if possible) with necs or does he just drudge his line forwards slowly and purposfully eliminating your forces turn after turn?

 

Plus what about whirl winds in this matter? maybe thinking outside of the box with some tacticaly placed ordanance may help catch him of guard, (or at the very least force him to fight differently exposing weakness and a chance or two to hit hkm where he is weakest and exploit those openings?)

[AyanamiKun]

THanks for the input!

 

He usually hides his Warriors as long as possible. Sometimes in reserves, sometimes behind some buildings. He also only takes the absolute minimum of warriors necessary (2x 10) and invests everything else into Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers. Sometimes a C'Tan (mostly Deceiver) makes an appearance, mostly it's just a lord with some immortals.

 

The main problem is to reach the Warriors with enough firepower to make them go away. He is very good at screening them and uses the Destroyers to attack my weak flanks if I present any or to stop my units of I try to move towards the Warriors. I usually manage to take out some of the pesky Destroyers, but they just keep standing up again because he is quite lucky :lol: The Heavy Destroyers on the other hand kill my transports alive ...

 

How about I try with 10 Tactical Terminators as bait (he always shoots at Terminators with all he got!) and use Assault Marines with a Chaplain to circumvent his screens and directly attack his Warriors in close combat. Sadly I don't have any Vindicators around, just two Predators which I could use.

[Jackelope King]

Vindicators are actually worse choices than normal against Necrons. The gun is good, and Necrons are slow enough that even an immobilized Vindicator is still nice, but the Gauss rule will rip that cannon off the front of the Vindicator in a hurry. I'd always prefer having decent range (since their best ranged weapon, the Heavy Gauss Cannon, only has a 36" range).

 

Really, your list shouldn't need to change too much to fight Necrons. Stay mech'd. You've got speed over everything in their army aside from Destroyers. Shoot them down with Missiles and Melta primarily. Kick out more wounds with Autocannons and rapid-fire bolters (just like against Marines, every wound you get with them is gravy). Focus fire, as mentioned above, on models with the "Necron" rule to force a phase-out. If you have a decent close-combat presence, throw it into big piles of Warriors. They're bad in close-combat, but it'll still turn into a slap-fight if you don't throw some brand of power weapons at them.

 

Really, you don't need to change much up. Keep killing models with the Necron rule and they'll Phase Out quickly enough. Missiles are good as ever. Melta is as good as ever. Be sure to play for the Phase Out most games. Establish on turn 1 how many Necrons have to die for you to phase them out, then kill the nearest and most vulnerable models on any given turn with the "Necron" rule. Some will get back up from your various shots. Don't worry. Half will die for real. Box out the Lord as best you can to keep the possible Resurrection Orb outside of its 6" range from the rest of the Necrons to make sure ID attacks and power weapons kill them for real.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Try and get into combat with whatever unit the Lord is in. Once in combat attack the normal warriors not the lord. That way when you win combat which you probably will, the lord flees, is cut down, and can't be brought back by we'll be back. If you attack the lord, his own res orb can bring him back. Once you've done this, ignore the monoliths and go for phase out.

[Kay]

i dont see how the gauss rule will tear your vindi. At rapid fire (wich is a lot less likely since if they manage to get at 30cm of your demolisher they should be gone) thats 20 shot, avg 15 impacts, 2 6s, 2 glancing... i dont see 2 glancing desroying a vindicator. And just in case they did... thats why you take 3 of them...

 

Against the destroyers. Scuadrons of LS typhoon might work. You take 3 of them at 240 points, and shoot 6 missiles per turn. iirc destroyers are T4(5) so they get instakilled, and being LS they can, if not outmanouvre, keep the pace of the destroyers.

 

for the Ctan, Drop pod a Sternguard unit with a libby using Null Zone and rapid fire it with hellfire to death. you can give that sternguard unit several combiplasmas and a pfist, and the librarian The Str10 ap1 blast power and go hunt the hiding necron warrior units that are hiding behind cover.

 

I think that taking the usual 3 tactical squads rhinoborne as troops, 3 vindis 2 units of 2 LS Typhoon and a drop podding Sternguard with librarian might be a great list. All this come to about 1750 points (aprox) so you could take i dontknow, for 250 points... a Tact Termi squad with CML maybe? i dont know, they are rough points made up in my mind, not codex in hand, but it is just to give you an idea...

[thade]

I usually get a round or two of shooting off with the Vindicator before it goes down...a few Str 10 templates are nice ways to clear out Necron models. I can't recall if Instant Death (which the Demolisher would inflict) bypasses WBB.

 

What does bypass WBB is Sweeping Advance, which is where you'll find Vanguard or even standard Assault Teams useful. Race in, cut down half of them, win combat; hey look, you're I4 and they're I2. Any Necrons killed by a Sweep are pulled from the table.

 

Ways to kill a Monolith are: Vindi, Dread claw, really lucky Lascannon fire, and Mephiston (who I'd pit against two Monoliths).

 

Sternguard with their 30" shot can put heat on crons early. Cut them down, focusing a unit at a time, ignoring anything without the Necron rule as long as you can. Keep your assault teams near your fireline to counter-charge and use Sweep to push them back. When the unit's cut down, WBB will at best link them to the next closest unit...which should be further away (if you're killing what's closest). Pull your assault teams back and keep firing. Rinse and repeat.

 

So far as objectives go, those Monoliths will suck...because your opponent can DS the liths onto objectives and at best you can contest them. So do so. TH/SS terminators and LRs can stand next to them and take a beating while your army otherwise kills Necrons. Again, if you phase them out, no more monoliths. :)

 

edit: typo

[Hellios]

How many units has he got?

 

Nearly naked Vanguard vets with heroic intervention with between 1-3 power weapons to make sure you win combat. Heroic Intervention into the warriors (I hope you are good with that scatter die.)...

 

Dreads in pods can work... if you distract his fire power from your transports allowing you to get nearer for combat... and should the dread survive all the glancing hits... combat munchy munchy... try and land somewhere away from the lord...

 

Flanking Khârn or infiltrating shrike assault terminators...

 

 

Basically things that get the jump on him fast...

 

Or rather than using dreads as a distraction you coul drop pod your entire army in front of his warriors... who won't be able to run away fast enough and kill them...

 

Doin things the right way you should be able to phase out his army by turn 3 if not before.

[spartan249]

Lysander and a few TH/SS friends can work wonders in distracting necrons, just as long as you keep them away from C'tan. Take C'tan down with some sternguard and you'll do fine. Heck, Lysander can work the Monolith over pretty handily, especially since the monolith can only move 6" a turn. Get him in there and bash stuff up.

 

Terminators are the bane of the necron army, as you have noticed with tactical terminators. Just be aware that there are 2 things in the necron army that can obliterate terminators with no chance to save (Pariahs and C'tan). Take care of them before wandering into CC range, and you'll wade through the necron ranks with CC impunity.

 

Destroyers are the lifeblood of the necron army. They are basically what allows necrons to win. Target them with Missile Launchers and they'll begin falling fast enough. Do not even attempt to get them into close combat with footslogging or mechanized infantry because they are simply too fast. Bikes are just about the only ones who stand a chance of catching up. Put the pressure on them, drop their numbers down, and you should be able to neutralize a lot of their firepower, giving you some breathing room.

 

To this point, I think you might want to consider running a bike captain as well with a biker command squad. These guys are fast enough to engage just about anything you wish in close combat, and can provide a very potent distraction to deal with. Just don't go too crazy with throwing on power weapons and you should be able to keep the price low enough to not break the bank.

[thade]

Nearly naked Vanguard vets with heroic intervention with between 1-3 power weapons to make sure you win combat. Heroic Intervention into the warriors (I hope you are good with that scatter die.)...

 

Heroic Intervention with the vanilla dex is a bad idea; kit out the Vanguard with next-to-no upgrades at all (throw a PF in there, and maybe a storm shield if you want them to melee a Lord down) and keep them behind your firing line (or mixed into your firing line if they don't have jump packs). JP are *not* required for them.

 

Dreads in pods can work... if you distract his fire power from your transports allowing you to get nearer for combat... and should the dread survive all the glancing hits... combat munchy munchy... try and land somewhere away from the lord...

 

I love this idea. A Necron unit tied up with a Dread is finished. Unless a Lord or Tomb Spider can get in there to help, they have no hope and will slowly die and get Swept...by your I4 dreadnought. :huh:

[Jackelope King]

Thade, for clarity, Assault Terminators will utterly ruin Necrons' day (they have a very hard time slowing down a Land Raider or two), but you can't sweeping advance in Terminator Armor.

[thade]

Thade, for clarity, Assault Terminators will utterly ruin Necrons' day (they have a very hard time slowing down a Land Raider or two), but you can't sweeping advance in Terminator Armor.

 

The reason I recommended TH/SS terminators for the 'lith was their survivability alone...but now that you mention it, with all those 2+ saves and str 8 attacks, they may not need to Sweep; they might just outright wipe the unit in one round of combat.

 

I might take LC termies for that purpose; vs T4 infantry Lit Claws are better than THs.

[Jackelope King]

Thade, for clarity, Assault Terminators will utterly ruin Necrons' day (they have a very hard time slowing down a Land Raider or two), but you can't sweeping advance in Terminator Armor.

 

The reason I recommended TH/SS terminators for the 'lith was their survivability alone...but now that you mention it, with all those 2+ saves and str 8 attacks, they may not need to Sweep; they might just outright wipe the unit in one round of combat.

 

I might take LC termies for that purpose; vs T4 infantry Lit Claws are better than THs.

Either works fine against Necrons. TH/SS Terminators in Codex: Space Marines are strictly better overall, and I'd recommend them for an all-comers list before I'd recommend Lightning Claw Terminators (though Codex: Black Templar and Codex: Blood Angels allow for Furious Charging Lightning Claw Terminators, a combination which is deathly effective).

[Chengar Qordath]

Personally, I would say that LC terminators have a healthy advantage over TH/SS terminators when you're up against Necrons. Necrons have almost no power weapons/AP 2+ weapons that would need a storm shield's invulnerable save, and their main special close combat weapon is the warscythe, which your storm shields are completely useless against. Keeping your initiative is also a huge advantage against Necrons, since you will be hitting first against almost all the Necron units in the game.

[Hellios]

Thade, for clarity, Assault Terminators will utterly ruin Necrons' day (they have a very hard time slowing down a Land Raider or two), but you can't sweeping advance in Terminator Armor.

 

Just on this note if you can do it it is worth assaulting with another unit (even if it is weak) at the same time as the terminators which can sweep... so the terminators make them run and the other guys chase them down.

[thade]

Thade, for clarity, Assault Terminators will utterly ruin Necrons' day (they have a very hard time slowing down a Land Raider or two), but you can't sweeping advance in Terminator Armor.

 

Just on this note if you can do it it is worth assaulting with another unit (even if it is weak) at the same time as the terminators which can sweep... so the terminators make them run and the other guys chase them down.

 

Yea, I found myself thinking that while painting this afternoon: given the chance I'll assault a Necron unit with a Tac squad, because Necrons are not great in melee since they dont' get a power weapon upgrade as we do.

[Xeonic]

I would also like to point out that most of the power weapons in a necron army will also ignore invulnerable saves. TH/SS termies are gravy but they're mostly wasted against necrons where lightning claws will inflict soo much more pain and virtually anything that ignores your 2+ will also bypass your 3++. Normal Tac termies are golden actually since they can also put out some AP3 krak or rending death at range while still bringing a boatload of powerfists to the table. Also necrons other than warscythes and particle whip have trouble dealing with 2+ saves in general. Honor guard for instance would eat them for breakfast without breaking a sweat.

 

My 2 cents would be to (as has already been pointed out) go for sweeping advances when possible, as normal marine tactical squads with a fist will have little trouble beating the Warriors in CC, and little trouble sweeping them. Swept Necrons are necrons that go back into the army case, not back onto the table.

 

There will be only a couple scary things in the Necron army, as the troops are somewhat mediocre at the moment:

Monolith, ignore or hit with S10 weapons(or S9 in bulk). You can't glance it to death(it has a weapon that can never be destroyed!) and meltas have a terrible time scratching it. As marines the S10 we can pack is usually DCCWs and Vindicators, but Vindicators should ideally be firing their doomplates at soft targets. Treat the monolith as a target of opportunity, a canny player will be using it to reroll his WBB rather than drop pieplates on you so it can be ignored with relative safety. It's worth noting that if you're packing lascannons in the numbers needed to reliably destroy a monolith in a turn or two, you probably have enough to phase out your opponent in a couple rounds of shooting instead. If a monolith isn't deep striking it should have a very small movement range for a skimmer(6" max!) and thus a fairly insignificant threat range for it's pieplate of doom(24" S9 AP3 plus the 6" movement FYI).

Destroyers are nasty, they're T5 jetbikes with a pretty decent gun. Shoot them with your longrange AT, wiping out whole units at a time to deny WBB if possible. These will be the primary threat for your vehicles too as they have both decent strength and number of shots to reliably hurt any AV target.

Lords are nasty. They can have a T6 jetbike body(can't be IDed by S10!), a 4++, this morale test thing they can pop off every turn, teleportation, and potentially(normally!) a S5 CC powerweapon that ignores invulnerable saves.

 

The other stuff is pretty easy to deal with. Immortals are actually good, if overpriced for their utility. C'Tan are basically footslogging MCs to be ignored or shot with hellfire rounds/sniper rifles/bulk S8/S9/10 until dead(they also ignore invuln saves and attack at S9/10) T8 and 5W is a bit rough, but they don't contribute to phaseout and are really slow enough to generally ignore unless you have the bulk counters necessary to take them down. Scarabs shouldn't be overlooked, as though they're crap they can turboboost to contest last turn and get a 2+ coversave for doing so, which can make them beyond irritating to kill with anything that's not a flamer template.

 

In summary, Necrons have severe issues in CC, and should be swept if possible. Destroyers should be shot with all available antitank weapons you have handy as soon as possible, and monolith/C'tan should be ignored as they are ludicrously hard to kill and rather slow.

Now, play a game without using the phaseout rule. That can be scary.

[thade]

I would also like to point out that most of the power weapons in a necron army will also ignore invulnerable saves.

 

These are actually quite rare; only the Lord and Pariahs can take them, and the latter are nigh useless in many applications (esp without the Necron rule). Not sure, but one or both of the C'tan may pack such an attack as well.

[Xeonic]

Power weapons in general are rare in Necron armies.

You'll see the warscythe on the lord almost with certainty because it's such an awesome cheap upgrade, replacing his normal PW with one that ignores invulns and has 2d6 pen for only 10pts.

As you said, Pariah's warscythes ignore invulns. They're too expensive to be useful outside of a "fear" list though.

C'Tan ignore invulns(this is in their special rules). You probably won't see a C'tan and if you do just stay away from it and pelt it from afar, or avoid it in general.

Tomb Spyders are MCs and thus treat their attacks as PW.

Wraiths are S6, no PW.

Flayed ones have normal attacks.

Everything else is also a normal attack, unless I missed something.

 

So basically... aside from any available tomb spyders and maybe lords with staff of light every power weapon in a necron list will be ignoring your invulns. The necron players in my area all seem to be willing to pay the 10 pts more to get that ability on their lords, because it kinda helps a bit to even out the huge weakness in general necrons have in 5th edition combat.

 

It may make me a filthy xenos lover, but I've played with a friends necrons a few times and found them to be fun, but terribly weak in combat in general. Lord w/warscythe is a total beast though and I one time had one leading a group of 10 warriors chew up my 10 man tac terminator squad over the course of 3 turns of combat.

[AyanamiKun]

Fun fact: I had three Tactical Marines beat 5 Pariah's in close combat after some rounds...

 

So how about I try a build around these units:

- Captain with Relic Blade

- Command Squad with Relic Blades OR Plasma Guns in a Razorback

- 2 - 3 Tactical Marine Squads with Rhinos

- 2 Predators (Lascannon sponsons or Heavy Bolter sponsons?)