melta raptors

[MarshalHelva]

my regular opponent and i have started playing larger games, 2500 - 3000 and i was looking to add some new units to my collection. i had 5 extra chaos marines and 5 extra loyalist jump packs laying around so i decided to make a 5 man dual melta raptor squad. with not having to buy a champion and being able to take 2 meltas this seems like it might be a good suicide unit to or might be a good support unit to run behind my rhino squads as they will be easy to hide. what do you guys think? had any luck with them in the past?

 

my thinking is that they may be small enough that my opponent might ignore them in favor of shooting more threatening targets although i will have to be careful if we roll for kill points because they are so fragile.

[Brother Nihm]

5 man 2x melta is the only workable Raptor setup for me.

I only ever include them when I have spare points (2000+).

 

I say go for it, they are a decent throwaway unit at your point range.

[minigun762]

5 man 2x melta is the only workable Raptor setup for me.

 

Have you tried a 5 man/2x Flamer setup?

 

It doesn't help against the mech meta-game but the jump packs should allow you to get in a nice position for dual template death and charge the weakened squad after.

[MarshalHelva]

I really considered going with flamers but my most frequent opponent plays vulkan space marines with 2 landraiders full of hammernators and i figured the fast melta might come in handy against those landraiders and rhinos more so than a a couple flamers but maybe ill model two flamer guys as well to switch out sometime.

[Zhukov]

Fast moving melta is a good thing.

 

Unfortunately we can only do it very poorly/overpriced.

The 2x melta raptor squad is an example of this, it comes closest to:

2x Multimelta Attack bikes; which comes in at 100 points.

 

Yes; the raptor have some very minor advantages if you look carefully, but its way worse at his overall job. Imagine we can take Attack bikes or speeders...just imagine it...no wait you might cry so dont.

 

BUT:

We dont have that option...and the higher the points get, the less choices we have. I assume your HQ and Heavy slots are filled up and taking more and more troops isnt desirable either.

 

SO:

Go for it, whats the alternative? The more points you play, the more AT you need indeed. But because we scale so incredibly bad; the more points the weaker we get...

 

It doesn't help against the mech meta-game but the jump packs should allow you to get in a nice position for dual template death and charge the weakened squad after.

Yeah, but we dont really need this thats the problem. Its not a bad 2x flamer platform though; so if you want that in your army its okay'ish I guess. But the 2x melta actually fulfills are needed role (although in an overpriced/lacking way)

 

You give me an idea to start a new thread though; regarding the word 'metagame'... Hmm maybe for later.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Fast moving melta is a good thing.

 

SO:

Go for it, whats the alternative? The more points you play, the more AT you need indeed. But because we scale so incredibly bad; the more points the weaker we get...

Outflanking Melta Chosen are always nice :D

 

Blast in with the Rhino from a table edge, unload your cargo, put a bucketload of Melta into some tanks and pow! You've done some damage, and you've got a semi-flexi unit running around, or failing that, some (not fatally expensive) cannon fodder.

[MarshalHelva]

a squad of chosen are my next project after the raptors. i have ordered some forgeworld crusade and iron armor marines that i will be mixing with chaos bits and the forgeworld bionic upgrades to create my iron warriors chosen but i cant decide if i want to go with he outflanking rhino squad or infiltrating plasma squad to get some nice shots on side armor of transports. i can see benefits to both

[Brother Nihm]

5 man 2x melta is the only workable Raptor setup for me.

 

Have you tried a 5 man/2x Flamer setup?

5 man, 6 man, 8 man, melee oriented /w Terminator support, balanced etc. and I always end up with not really needing the flamers because I have sufficient anti infantry elsewhere in my list - if that makes sense.

Cover isn't really an issue that cannot be worked around (frags are glorious) and I always try to scrounge points to get more anti armour/MC/skimmer weapons in there, hence my shift from combi meltas to combi plasma on my Terminators.

 

I refuse to field cookie cutter lists as a principle and feel like I am paying for it, local meta game being heavy on 'Nids, Tau, IG and Eldar.

 

Hell, even the two Razor-spam (SW + BA) players are giving me trouble these days, dated and old codex feels dated and old. ^_^

[Shas'o R'Vre]

i cant decide if i want to go with he outflanking rhino squad or infiltrating plasma squad to get some nice shots on side armor of transports.

In my experience, you will rarely get those shots, and they die pretty fast, what with being within 24" of most things Turn 1. Outflanking Melta has always thrown up a wildcard in my games, sometimes it's turned the tide, others it's just delaying the inevitable.

[Debauchery101]

i have had great luck with dual raptor squads similar to your idea. our codex is gimp and yeah we pay more for stuff than others but if you can make each unit a threat in multiple ways it makes your opponent have to factor in more outcomes to his actions. going along with that philosophy i choose my raptor squad like this

 

5 man

mark of slaanesh

2 melta or 2 flamer

champ w/ dual lightning claws and melta bombs

 

175-185 pts

 

my choice on the special weapons will depend on opponent normally but the champ with initiative 5 and 4 attacks with rerolling power weapon wounds really increases the units threat. quite often they get in and do some serious work because they are small and get ignored when my 2 demon princes are coming in and sometimes they get mowed down. though if you plan for that you can distract some fire from other units.

 

i like to have an opponent think well " im damned if i do or damned if i dont" when wondering about what he should do when looking at every unit i have for him to attack.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

5 man

mark of slaanesh

2 melta or 2 flamer

champ w/ dual lightning claws and melta bombs

 

175-185 pts

They look cheap and cheerful, but the way I see it, I point 1/2 Plasmaguns or a Plasma Cannon at this unit and you can wave it goodbye.

[Debauchery101]

5 man

mark of slaanesh

2 melta or 2 flamer

champ w/ dual lightning claws and melta bombs

 

175-185 pts

They look cheap and cheerful, but the way I see it, I point 1/2 Plasmaguns or a Plasma Cannon at this unit and you can wave it goodbye.

 

well thats 1 or 2 plasma double taps or a plasma cannon that other units like my demon prince(s), oblits or berzerkers arent dealing with. pick your poison !

[Zhukov]

5 man

mark of slaanesh

2 melta or 2 flamer

champ w/ dual lightning claws and melta bombs

 

175-185 pts

They look cheap and cheerful, but the way I see it, I point 1/2 Plasmaguns or a Plasma Cannon at this unit and you can wave it goodbye.

 

well thats 1 or 2 plasma double taps or a plasma cannon that other units like my demon prince(s), oblits or berzerkers arent dealing with. pick your poison !

Fallacy. Drawing fire is not always a good thing; it depends on how good that unit is in absorbing the fire.

 

An expensive unit which dies to almost nothing? Then its not good when people fire at it.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Fallacy. Drawing fire is not always a good thing; it depends on how good that unit is in absorbing the fire.

 

An expensive unit which dies to almost nothing? Then its not good when people fire at it.

Ninja'd

[Debauchery101]

5 man

mark of slaanesh

2 melta or 2 flamer

champ w/ dual lightning claws and melta bombs

 

175-185 pts

They look cheap and cheerful, but the way I see it, I point 1/2 Plasmaguns or a Plasma Cannon at this unit and you can wave it goodbye.

 

well thats 1 or 2 plasma double taps or a plasma cannon that other units like my demon prince(s), oblits or berzerkers arent dealing with. pick your poison !

Fallacy. Drawing fire is not always a good thing; it depends on how good that unit is in absorbing the fire.

 

An expensive unit which dies to almost nothing? Then its not good when people fire at it.

 

 

well first off i wouldnt take these units except in larger games when i already have pretty much everything else filled up and need some extra deep striker/fast movers to help against the majority of the other codices ability to take increasingly more mobile armies in larger games

 

to further expand on things for the way i use my raptors.. .. this is not a bullet shield unit and i wouldnt purposely put them in a position to get shot down the next players turn unless i needed to get them in and pop a vehicle with melta attacks or if to make an oppenent choose between shooting them or shooting another unit of equal or greater threat. either survivor will usually be set up for a charge or heavy shooting attack. whether or not the guys die to 2 troopers carrying plasma guns that cost 25pts each means nothing. 75% of the armies played are tooled to easily melt marines so its just somthing we gotta live with. so in the end you need to be able to sacrifice to gain. plus its the chaos way!!! :D

 

so to the OP and his question.. again i think at a larger game when you have already chosen the main needed parts of your army raptors are a good choice. i hope the tactics and opinions given will help you use them to the full capability with your army.

[the jeske]

well in large games has no other options , but to take them because our "good" slots are full at 2250.

[MarshalHelva]

thats exactly what im trying to do, we are playing 2500-3000 pt games where my HQs, 2 elite slots and heavies are maxed out so my only real options to expand are raptors, bikers or a unit of chosen. which all fill a similar role for me. i appreciate everyones input and i plan on using them in conjunction with a plasma squad of CSM in a rhino. they pop the enemies transport and my squad dumps plasma on what comes out.