Scouts, useful?

[zebanash]

Been kicking around the idea of putting in some scouts on my list.

It's only 85 points for infiltrating squad that has an ml and can use snipers.

Was wondering what peoples thoughts are on using scouts and if you have found them useful?

[bulley]

I think they can have a role certainly. That role I am not quite sure though, I would be inclined to say sat on rear objectives w/ sniper ml and camo makin it a cheap but quite tricky to move objective holder. They should hit 50% of the time, and could cause damage. I am not to sure about pushing forward, for angels they seem slow to me and not as tough, so I'd try and take advantage of the 100 point essentially heavy weapon scoring unit with decent cover save.

 

I have been thinking of testing the bikes with asartes launchers to scout with baals but then again not sure how good that would be, but turbo boosting rapid fire last or s6 shot seems quite tasty.

[tahrikmili]

Upgrades that make them useful quickly make them too costly for their own good..

 

Sniper Scouts? BS3 :/ Very vulnerable with no Camo Cloaks and those 3 pts make them as costly as tacticals..

CCW Scouts? WS3 :/ Still, a good mix of Shotguns and CCWs is a viable infiltrating CC unit.. PW/Meltabombs of Powerfist on the Sergeant for good measure.

Bolter Scouts? BS3 again :/ 4+ save is also not very reliable for a close fire support unit.. I love the idea of Bolter scouts for some reason, but I can find no practical use.

Heavy Weapons? BS3 :lol:((

 

I love scouts, but even I can't find a use for them..

[Erasmus of Baal]

Sniper Scouts? BS3 :/ Very vulnerable with no Camo Cloaks and those 3 pts make them as costly as tacticals..

CCW Scouts? WS3 :/ Still, a good mix of Shotguns and CCWs is a viable infiltrating CC unit.. PW/Meltabombs of Powerfist on the Sergeant for good measure.

Bolter Scouts? BS3 again :/ 4+ save is also not very reliable for a close fire support unit.. I love the idea of Bolter scouts for some reason, but I can find no practical use.

Heavy Weapons? BS3 :P((

 

Sniper Scouts? Costly as tacticals? Well, yeah, they do kinda have a 3+ save that's harder to ignore than an Armor save.

CCW Scouts? WS3 will still hit most stuff, throw in a Sanguinary Priest and suddenly they're monstrous.

Bolter Scouts? I'll give you most of this one, but shotguns are very nice against Daemonettes and Eldar without bolters and if your Tactical is just an objective camper, the straight-up boltgun scouts with Camo Cloaks added can do better in a few ways.

Heavy Weapons? Total agreement with you there, mate, with the one exception that it's a way to get a cheap missile launcher onto the board.

 

Really, I like the guys, and my only beef with them is that the shotguns aren't better--I'm a DOOM fan, so I just kinda love shotguns. ^_^

[Brother Xeones]

Sniper Scouts? BS3 :/ Very vulnerable with no Camo Cloaks and those 3 pts make them as costly as tacticals..

CCW Scouts? WS3 :/ Still, a good mix of Shotguns and CCWs is a viable infiltrating CC unit.. PW/Meltabombs of Powerfist on the Sergeant for good measure.

Bolter Scouts? BS3 again :/ 4+ save is also not very reliable for a close fire support unit.. I love the idea of Bolter scouts for some reason, but I can find no practical use.

Heavy Weapons? BS3 ^_^((

 

Sniper Scouts? Costly as tacticals? Well, yeah, they do kinda have a 3+ save that's harder to ignore than an Armor save.

CCW Scouts? WS3 will still hit most stuff, throw in a Sanguinary Priest and suddenly they're monstrous.

Bolter Scouts? I'll give you most of this one, but shotguns are very nice against Daemonettes and Eldar without bolters and if your Tactical is just an objective camper, the straight-up boltgun scouts with Camo Cloaks added can do better in a few ways.

Heavy Weapons? Total agreement with you there, mate, with the one exception that it's a way to get a cheap missile launcher onto the board.

I agree with you mostly EoB. I don't think I'd ever bother putting a priest in a squad of scouts though. They'd loose infiltrate and the priest would be more likely to die off faster in a fragile squad like scouts. That's not to say that you couldn't infiltrate the scouts and then get a priest up close to them quickly (in a Stormraven or a Pod perhaps) to use his bubble.

 

I'm suddenly intrigued by the idea of an infiltrated scout squad with a homing beacon bringing down a unit with a priest in a pod. Unfortunately, a priest means an assaulty squad, but a Drop Pod means no assaulting 1st turn. Hmmm...

[bulley]

I personally wouldnt use them, but if someone wanted to find a use, even at BS3 - x4 snipers and x1 ML w/ camo cloaks with a 3+ cover save sat on a rear objective, thats gonna be ('dex not with me) a little over 100 points? x4 hits on 4+ wounds on 4+ and x1 ML to lay down a blast or try and pop tougher creatures/tanks. For objective keeping they could be quite decent, but I'd not try and consider using them in the front field at all. Also I'd personally probably look at using a tactical squad w/ a rhino - combat squad w/ x4 bolters and a ML and use them in the back field objective holding position - but thats just me (and my mech ways lol).

 

That's what I'd suggest if someone told me to find a use for scouts, would I do it myself? Maybe if I was going for a "fun themed" list or had a passion for scouts (I dont unless they have the word "wolf" infront of it, and typically its a buring rage of popping up and contesting my rear objectives!).

[Erasmus of Baal]

I agree with you mostly EoB. I don't think I'd ever bother putting a priest in a squad of scouts though. They'd loose infiltrate and the priest would be more likely to die off faster in a fragile squad like scouts. That's not to say that you couldn't infiltrate the scouts and then get a priest up close to them quickly (in a Stormraven or a Pod perhaps) to use his bubble.

 

I'm suddenly intrigued by the idea of an infiltrated scout squad with a homing beacon bringing down a unit with a priest in a pod. Unfortunately, a priest means an assaulty squad, but a Drop Pod means no assaulting 1st turn. Hmmm...

 

I think that it might be far better, since the beacon means no scatter, to just give the Priest TDA. That's a lot more survivability than a Pod, but does mean a guaranteed wait on real usefulness.

 

Then again, I would run them with bolters, Camo Cloaks, and a Missile Launcher, just for the hell of it. :o

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I also don't like BS3. They used to hit on 2+ with sniper rifles. I do see them as a good shock unit... Load them into a Stormraven with a Priest attached for Furious Charge. They will be hitting at I5 which helps to counterweight their WS3. I'd arm the sergeant with a power fist and combi-melta, the Priest should have a power weapon.

 

0b

[BigBaals]

I ran 10 scouts with sniper rifles and a heavy weapon a few years ago. I'll never do that again. 15-20 games later they were put on the shelf, and sold on Ebay not long after that. That was my experience.

[TheMouth]

My Personal fav...

 

scouts ...armed with whatever...camo cloaks...beacon....

 

Deep striking Land Raiders, Deep Striking Terminators, Deep Striking Jump Troops.

 

Win.

[Zeller]

My experiences with them have not been very good outside of my Black Templar's army where for whatever reason they perform better than my PA initiates. Anywho, I've done the 9 SR and ML setup but had little luck with them. They miss to often, they suck in close combat, and well, that's all I have to say about that.

 

Scout bikes I now have 7 of and really want to make good use of them as an outflanking/harrassment squad. TL boltguns offsets the BS a bit and the grenade launchers would be great. I see them being more useful in larger battles where there is a higher chance of using depe striking units. Unfortunately for the moment my Baal and land speeders offer me more dependable firepower for about the same cost.

[shatter]

I've 20 scouts, (cloak,sniper, ML) and with my 3 whirlwinds, they're a great support portion of my army. I use them to immobilise transports and finish off unit fragments mostly. When I'm desperate to get a 'stepping stone' for my slow-arse TDA assault unit to hold still (via pinning), the snipers and whirlwinds really shine. In such situations, causing 1 (sniper) wound is all I'm after (on each attempt).

 

2 or 3 games of this though and folks go hard for 'em.

[zebanash]

Shatter do you tend to use 10 man squads?

 

I was thinking its a cheap 85 point scoring unit (4x SR 1xML) that has a chance to pop transports with the ML and hold an objective with cover.

[shatter]

Depends on the opponent army if I squad them or not. (2x10 usual, 1x10, 2x5 sometimes)

Some armies have too much firepower on individual declarations and don't like to target extreme range 5man scouts in cover with them. Later in the game this changes of course.

 

The 9 sniper rifles are better than the 1 ML vs transports btw (in 10 man scout sniper squads overall).

Math-hammer.

9 sniper rifles = 4.5 vehicle hits, 1/6th are rends that glance/penetrate AV 10 - 0.75, 0.5 versus AV 11

1 ML = 0.5 hits at str 8, 5/6th glance/penetrate AV10. - 0.42, 0.33 versus AV 11

(total, 9 sniper & 1 ML versus AV 10, 1.17 g/ps, 0.88 versus 11)

4ML deva squad is superior of course (2.38 g/ps versus AV 10, 1.88 versus av 11) although, they may miss first turn shooting, cost more (overall), require a ride and not score... and seldom causes pinning.

 

The sniper rifle component can do something the ML cannot do too, and that's cause multiple hits. If this mild statistical aberrance happens in the opening stages of the game, the resulting cascade of consequences can be highly favorable.

 

Versus other scorers, scouts have an edge in that they will most likely start being effective in the game earlier than both tacticals and RAS.

18-20 rifles is getting close enough to ensure a solid round of anti-transport action at the start of the game. Should one be lucky and have combat squadded 4x5, one can totally screw up an enemy advance/dispersion by gimping up to 4 transports. However, while this seldom happens, it can give you a solid early game mech counter without resorting to expensive/high risk units like VV and podded dreads that end up becoming 'disposable' by virtue of their best application.

This is the occasion I'd 1x10, 2x5 btw and hope for 2 immobs on specific transports.

 

One game a played, I did the modern technique of shooting and immobilizing 2 (of 5) transports at either end of a 'convoy' between terrain near perfectly blocking egress and most LOS from his firepoints and the guy called it first turn. He'd placed them too close together and none could rotate out. He didn't do that again :)

Rawr. An unfun win from scouts... although it was probably the advancing termies and 3 whirlwinds that made his demise seem inevitable.

 

I don't play a lot mind, many others here will give more experienced advice.

[Drachnon]

If only there were scouts with jump packs :D. Perhaps something for the next codex, would work pretty well fluffwise by just stating that BA make jump pack training part of the basic scout training regime.

 

I can't give real advise on scouts since I never used them (don't even have the models). Though I would like to try them at some point.

[Sir Blayse]

Hmm, I don't run scouts with my FT's, but mainly since they can't have razorbacks as dedicated transports. My Ultra's do run a five man sniper squad for kicks, but I use the heavy bolter instead. The bolter actually does rather well and the pinning effect can by nice. Best result was against Eldar. I was able to keep his Guadians pinned and unable to shoot for nearly the entire game, so for a 100 points I nulled out his heavy weapon.

 

I'm not really a big fan with scouts for BA. They are slow, poorly armored, and suck at shooting compared to most. I guess if you wanted to run them the best idea would be as a reserved outflanker, I'd arm them with boltguns. The reason would be that should a target be within range on the edges of the board, you present a possible threat. This would probably keep the enemy more to the middle, and would allow me to focus more into them. If you do this you must use ten man squads. I would not take the heavy weapon or cloaks. I would be tempted to give the sgt a combi-melta.

 

Scouts can be good sometimes, but usually only if they have large numbers or long range. A squad of 5 hitting the enemy at 36" will cause trouble. Also a squad of ten with cloaks and bolters, infiltrated to within 24" of the opponent can inflict a lot of damage and distract opponent. If doing this I would suggest using Baal's with AC's or flamestorms. Never tried it, but could be interesting.

[tahrikmili]

10 outflanking scouts, 9 with bolters, Sergeant with combi-melta, meltabombs, first turn infiltrate/scout move to pop a tank or double tap enemy troops.. I'll surely add this unit to my lists!