The Lionwatch

[Dexter Kong]

So I've come up with this idea for a Dark Angel's successor Chapter over the last few weeks, and want to get some opinions before I move forward. I have the preliminary details for a Librarium article, but I haven't given it any HTML love yet.

Here's the wordy goodness:

 

The Lionwatch

 

Origin

Created during the early 38th Millennium. In response to mounting concerns from various Imperial organizations, as well as the High Lords of Terra themselves, it was determined that the it was necessary to investigate the true motives of the Dark Angels. In order to discern their reasons for secrecy and the sporadic abandonment of battlefields, the Lionwatch was created.

The Chapter was originally hailed as a supporting force for the Dark Angels, to assist them in their crusades. They would also be gifted with vast vaults in their ships, for the purpose of safekeeping sacred Dark Angel artifacts. Their true purpose was kept hidden, even from the rank-and-file Battle Brothers themselves. Only the officers of the Chapter would know their intended role.

The original training of the Chapter was carried out by Battle Brothers from the Dark Angels and Angels of Absolution successor Chapters. After this initial period of training, a small contingent of Grey Knights were brought in to help further steel the minds of the Chapter officers from the taint of Chaos, as well as provide advanced combat training. Armed with this knowledge, the Chapter would be able to detect any taint of corruption within the Dark Angel Chapter and subchapters.

 

Home World

By and large, the Lionwatch are a fleet-based chapter, commanding dozens of ships. The largest of these ships contain massive libraries and psi-shielded vaults to contain the Dark Angel relics that they have been entrusted with. Because of this, the Lionwatch have not adopted a single world as their home, and tend to draw recruits from the systems local to where their fleet is docked. They prefer to recruit from worlds in states of internal strife, as this sort of environment breeds its populace to be vigilant and suspicious. Such qualities serve the purposes of the Lionwatch well.

 

Combat Doctrine

For the Lionwatch, battle is as much an opportunity to learn and gather information as it is to fight for the glory of the Emperor. The Lionwatch frequently deploys alongside the Dark Angels in campaigns, and during the entire course of these engagements, there is a constant flow of information from the Battle Brothers to the Battle Leaders and Chaplains. In campaigns where the Chapter fights alone, this high level of communication allows the Lionwatch to be highly adaptable, and they have shown the ability to re-deploy to counter flanking maneuvers and ambushes with amazing speed and efficiency.

 

Organization

The Lionwatch are a Codex-adherent Chapter for the most part. They do have unique differences in their command structure, however. Since purity and devotion to the Emperor are the most important tenants of the Chapter

Edited February 2, 2011 by Dexter Kong

[Octavulg]

The problem is that this seems a very, very risky method of infiltration. The Chapter has to be willing to do it. And if the DA found out, they would not be happy. The Astartes are scary, even to the High Lords. It'd seem safer and easier to send an Assassin with chameleoline.

 

The third scheme is the best, IMO.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Octavulg

[Dexter Kong]

Well the idea is that the Chapter as a whole is as aware of their true purpose as the Dark Angels as a whole are aware of the full truth of the Betrayal. Only the Master Chaplain would know the entirety of it. The standard Battle Brothers would be under the impression that relaying all data to their superiors was part of their combat duty. This is not a Chapter-wide conspiracy, more a matter of a select few higher-ups pulling the strings and a feeling of being caught between a rock (the Dark Angels) and a hard place (the Grey Knights).

[Shinzaren]

The Chapter was originally hailed as a supporting force for the Dark Angels, to assist them in their crusades. They would also be gifted with vast vaults in their ships, for the purpose of safekeeping sacred Dark Angel artifacts. Their true purpose was kept hidden, even from the rank-and-file Battle Brothers themselves. Only the officers of the Chapter would know their intended role.

Here's the issue. Why would the Dark Angels let you have any of their artifacts? They are RIDICULOUSLY secretive. Who tells the Lionwatch what their mission is?

 

The original training of the Chapter was carried out by Battle Brothers from the Dark Angels and Angels of Absolution successor Chapters.

Again, some as above. Why would a training cadre from the DA and the AoA train this chapter to be spies? Since the Cadre would be veterans, it's safe to assume they would all be members of the Inner Circle. They wouldn't train their guys to turn on the DA.

 

After this initial period of training, a small contingent of Grey Knights were brought in to help further steel the minds of the Chapter officers from the taint of Chaos, as well as provide advanced combat training. Armed with this knowledge, the Chapter would be able to detect any taint of corruption within the Dark Angel Chapter and subchapters.

Immediate suspension of disbelief. Totally taken out of the story completely. Why would the Grey Knights be involved. Please don't make them involved. This whole paragraph can be removed.

 

Home World

By and large, the Lionwatch are a fleet-based chapter, commanding dozens of ships. The largest of these ships contain massive libraries and psi-shielded vaults to contain the Dark Angel relics that they have been entrusted with.

As above. I don't think the Dark Angels are gonna turn over ANY of their relics. It's just not their way. I don't think it's a good idea.

 

For the Lionwatch, battle is as much an opportunity to learn and gather information as it is to fight for the glory of the Emperor. The Lionwatch frequently deploys alongside the Dark Angels in campaigns, and during the entire course of these engagements, there is a constant flow of information from the Battle Brothers to the Battle Leaders and Chaplains.

This still leads back to the initial training cadre. As members of the Unforgiven, I don't think it's plausible for them to turn on the Dark Angels, and if they aren't Unforgiven, I don't think it's plausible that the Dark Angels would work with them.

 

The Lionwatch are a Codex-adherent Chapter for the most part. They do have unique differences in their command structure, however. Since purity and devotion to the Emperor are the most important tenants of the Chapter’s ethos, Chaplains are regarded as the most important and honored individuals. As such, the Chapter Master is always chosen from the ranks of the Chaplains, and carries the title Master Chaplain. The Master Chaplain keeps in close contact with the Chaplains of each company, who enact his will. Due to this, the Chaplains are essentially the leaders of their respective companies.

Why? Piety is one thing, making them a Chaplain chapter is a big break from the Codex, with no justification behind it. Also, this seems more than eerily reminiscent of Pre-Heresy Word Bearers. I don't think that's a good thing.

 

While the Chaplains are the Chapter leaders and guide its secret mission, they lack the tactical skills that would be found in the Captains of other Chapters. Filling that role are the Battle Leaders; the most experienced, learned veterans in the Chapter. They act as a bridge between the spiritual icon that is the Master Chaplain and the rank-and-file Battle Brothers. They serve the vital role of assisting the Chaplains in planning out entire campaigns, down to the details of individual battles and skirmishes. While the Master Chaplains are by no means initiates in the art of war, their focus is on spiritual purity and the investigations that the Chapter was created for. They rely on the Battle Leaders to ensure that the will of the Master Chaplain is carried through successfully and efficiently. Due to this relationship between them, Chaplains and Battle Leaders often develop deep bonds of friendship, regarding each other as different sides of the same coin.

Which leads to the inevitable problem of having the person responsible for purity being friends with the people most likely to abuse power and fall from purity. I don't think this is necessary. Honestly the idea of having Chaplains lead is gonna cause more problems than it will solve. Could just be me though.

 

Beliefs

Above all else, the Lionwatch revere spiritual purity and loyalty to the Emperor. Their suspicious nature leads them to doubt the purity and loyalty of nearly every other Imperial organization, save the High Lords of Terra and the Ordo Malleus.

Realistically, the HLoT and the Ordo Malleus wouldn't be outside their sphere of suspicion. If anything, the OM would be MORE likely, as outside of the Grey Knights, the rank and file Inquisitors are more likely to turn heretic than regular Inquisitors.

 

The Dark Angels, for the most part, do not suspect the Lionwatch of being the double-agents that they are. However, being as how they are the youngest of their successor Chapters, they have only given them a limited glimpse into the motives behind the Hunt for the Fallen. The Lionwatch have been told that the Fallen represent the single greatest threat to the Imperium and the Emperor Himself. The Fallen are so deadly and so subtle, that the Dark Angels are the only organization within the Imperium that recognize the full extent of their threat. All others either underestimate their strength, or deny their existence entirely. It is therefore imperative that the Dark Angels take the chase to the Fallen whenever the opportunity arises, regardless of the current circumstances. Any collateral damage caused by this Hunt, such as abandoned battlefields, are prices worth paying if it grants them even the slimmest of chances at capturing one of the Fallen.

So the Dark Angels told them about the Fallen, but the Lionwatch didn't communicate this to the HLoT? I feel like even with an abridged version, they would have enough evidence to bring SERIOUS problems for the Dark Angels.

 

Meanwhile, the Ordo Malleus keeps a keen eye on the Chapter as well. Although the Lionwatch were created and bred to be their secret eyes and ears into the secrets of the Dark Angels, they know too well that there is no guarantee that the loyalty of their spies will remain with the Ordo. Should the Chapter turn their backs on the Inquisition, the Grey Knights are ready to enact the Emperor’s Will.

Ordo Hereticus is the more likely Inquisitorial branch to handle something like this. After all, Malleus deals exclusively with the daemonic. I don't think involving Malleus or the Grey Knights is a good idea. At all.

 

The idea seems cool, a lot like the Blood Wolves mentioned in another thread. However, you are bypassing the majority of the problems that a successor to the Dark Angels would have. Namely the fact that the Dark Angels prize their secrecy more than anything. This idea has merits, but overall, it needs to be ironed out a bit and the details need to explained better. Namely, why the Dark Angels give or share anything with the Lionwatch, or why the Lionwatch turned on the Dark Angels that trained them.

[Dexter Kong]

Those are some interesting points. Before I begin to think about what parts I'm going to re-write, and how, I have a few questions.

Is it possible to create a new successor chapter "from scratch"? What I mean is, often I read about successor chapters being created when a veteran/squad from an existing chapter is honored by being the building blocks upon which a new chapter is created. It falls on them to train the new Battle Brothers, and when the chapter is up to strength, those veterans are instated as members of the chapter's command structure. Is this always the case? I was originally thinking that some Dark Angels would have trained the Lionwatch recruits, and when the entire chapter was up to snuff, those Dark Angels would have returned to their own companies and the Lionwatch would be able to operate more or less independently. That does leave a rift in where officers came from in a chapter full of rookies. Hmm.

I know the Dark Angels are highly secretive (which is the fuel behind this idea, really), but I have read that the command structures of their successor chapters are treated as members of the Inner Circle, and therefore know about the Fallen and the Betrayal. Are there any examples of just how much of their story they tell to the Chapter Masters of the successors?

I don't want to bring in the Grey Knights simply so I can say "that means they know extra-special combat moves". I know their bread and butter is killing daemons, but they were also the ones who purged the Relictors. My thought process is that the HLoT are beginning to suspect something similar may be happening with the Dark Angels. What I want to capture is the idea that the Lionwatch are something of a middle man in the secret struggle between the Dark Angels and those that would hold them accountable.

As far as the relics go, the idea was that they would take any table scraps the Dark Angels would toss at them, and study them up and down. However, I realize after some thought that they won't be getting any relics worth studying in the first place, so I'll probably omit that bit.

Once I wrap my head around the basic argument of the Unforgiven turning on their own chapter, I'm going to try and re-spin this so that the true loyalties of the chapter are unknown. They could be playing both sides, catering to one or the other, or working to screw over both. This is the first round of criticism I've received for this idea and it's refreshing, since I was running pretty dry on ideas.

 

I also realize that naming them Lionwatch may be a bit too obvious. I am also toying with the name Lionguard.

[Shinzaren]

Is it possible to create a new successor chapter "from scratch"? What I mean is, often I read about successor chapters being created when a veteran/squad from an existing chapter is honored by being the building blocks upon which a new chapter is created. It falls on them to train the new Battle Brothers, and when the chapter is up to strength, those veterans are instated as members of the chapter's command structure. Is this always the case? I was originally thinking that some Dark Angels would have trained the Lionwatch recruits, and when the entire chapter was up to snuff, those Dark Angels would have returned to their own companies and the Lionwatch would be able to operate more or less independently. That does leave a rift in where officers came from in a chapter full of rookies. Hmm.

 

It seems to me that the Training Cadre could come from any chapter, though it would most likely be a successor to the gene-seed. IE: Crimson Fists training a new chapter of Iron Fist stock. In that regard the Dark Angels themselves might not train a new chapter of their Seed, and it's possible, though not probable, that the HLoT created a new chapter of Dark Angels stock, and just didn't tell them, though this would of course ruin your Dark Angels spy idea.

 

In regards to the Cadre, there are 2 accepted theories.

1.) The Cadre trains them, then stays on to become the first Captains and Masters of the newly formed chapter.

2.) The Cadre trains them, and when they are determined to be ready, they hand over the reins and return to their own chapters.

 

It's up to you. The Unforgiven are a special case, in that they maintain their own secrets and such.

[Octavulg]

The thing is, there's a problem no matter how you do it.

 

If the DA trained them, one would expect the DA to thoroughly indoctrinate them.

 

If the DA didn't train them, the DA won't accept them.

[Dexter Kong]

Thanks for the input. I hadn't considered the paradox Octavulg just stated. I may have to do some drastic re-writing of the basis of the chapter. I still want to make their core story that they are somehow torn between loyalty to the Unforgiven and loyalty to Terra. Looks like most of the origin and beliefs will have to be re-written though. Which, as far as I'm concerned, is all well and good. I also need to finish reading Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels to give me a more well-rounded idea of where the Dark Angels are coming from.

In the mean time, I'd like to hear any suggestions on how I could re-structure this. Also some more input on color schemes would be a big help. While I read up on the DA fluff and re-think the background, I'll also see if I can't draw up some ideas for chapter and company heraldry.

[Ace Debonair]

Thanks for the input. I hadn't considered the paradox Octavulg just stated. I may have to do some drastic re-writing of the basis of the chapter. I still want to make their core story that they are somehow torn between loyalty to the Unforgiven and loyalty to Terra.

 

You could have the Lionwatch be like any other DA successor, and merely have the others think they may rat them out to the Inquisition. Other DA successors keeping an eye on what your chapter is doing, and not sharing any updated news about the Fallen.. could be interesting.

Or, they could convince the Lionwatch that the real secret is something else, so even if they do speak up, they'd be talking about the wrong thing. :lol:

 

Then again, why the DA wouldn't just attack your lot if they thought you were preparing to let the secret out is a mystery I can't solve. :sweat:

 

As colourschemes go, the grey/silver and green one is very cool! ^_^

[Dexter Kong]

So I've read the Octaguide, as well as Ferrata's Guide to DIYing, and have buffed up on my Dark Angels history by reading their Horus Heresy novels. I'm doing away with the "spy" idea, but keeping the theme that the Lionwatch are not as loyal to the Dark Angels as they would seem.

I am putting their founding back to around M32, and having them initially created as one of the chapters guarding the Cadian Gate. The Lionwatch would have split their strength, leaving half their strength at the Cadian Gate specifically to monitor the region for the Fallen, while the other half would accompany the Dark Angels and other successor chapters on their own campaigns and Hunts.

I don't have the details worked out yet, but at some point, Something Happened between the Lionwatch and the Dark Angels. I am thinking the Lionwatch was engaged in a campaign alongside the Dark Angels, when they received information about the location of a coven of Fallen. The Dark Angels left the battlefield, however the Lionwatch were too deep in the fighting and too comitted to the battle to disengage, and suffered terrible losses. This led to a disenchantment with the Hunt and the secrets of the Unforgiven. Now the Lionwatch have motives that are sinister and secretive even by Dark Angel standards, and harbor a deep spite towards their founding chapter.

Needs some work, but I think it will fit in better with the fluff. As always, please give me thoughts, criticism, suggestions . . .

[Octavulg]

Don't necessarily need to be that old, or leave half their Chapter anywhere. But I like the motivation.

[Dexter Kong]

The founding date is tentative, but I did want to make sure they weren't a relatively young Chapter, and at least as old as the Disciples of Caliban. I'm not finding much information about the chapters that are stationed at the Cadian Gate. I assume that you don't have over a dozen full-strength chapters sitting around waiting for something to happen, and that at least part of their strength goes on campaigns elsewhere. I'm not sure about splitting it 50/50, but I do like the idea of having at least a few companies on campaign with the Dark Angels and successors at any given time. Or at least that's the way it was until Something Happened. Now they keep to themselves much more and only rarely accompany Dark Angels on campaign. Their own campaigns are secretive, and I may decide that they are hunting the Fallen for their own ends, not that of the Dark Angels. Not sure yet, still need to think that over.

On the subject of color schemes, I'm leaning towards the green and silver, with parchment-colored robes.

[Ecritter]

The green and silver colors are good, remember not all DA successors have to have robes though.

[Dexter Kong]

That's more of an aesthetic choice by me. When I originally set out to do a Space Marine chapter, I wanted them to have a strong monastic feel to them, with lots of robes and purity seals. I'll be building an army to go with the Chapter, and recently got a ton of Space Marine plastics from a trade with bluetablepainting, including a whole lot of Dark Angel and Black Templar robe bits. When I started to dream up my fluff, a Dark Angels successor just happened to emerge.

[Dexter Kong]

Two months of brainstorming and writing, re-writing, research and fits of creative fury later, I've got something more on-track. I hope.

 

I've settled on this color scheme:

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5024/lionwatchcolorscheme.jpg

For the chapter symbol I am fiddling around with some stylized lion heads.

Here's a sketch of Chapter Master Corson. Forgive the horrible image quality. My scanner was a cheap buy seven years ago, and I've only just begun to clean up the scan and prep it for painting in Photoshop.

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6569/corson.th.jpg

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

(click thumbnail for full-size)

So here we go with the fluff.

 

Origins

The Lionwatch are a product of the Ninth Founding in early M34, created to patrol the Arx and Cadian Gate, and to provide reinforcements for Imperial fortifications in the area. The Dark Angel and Guardians of the Covenant veterans that handled the Chapter

Edited January 11, 2011 by Dexter Kong

[NightrawenII]

Well, lets see...

 

Origins

The Dark Angel and Guardians of the Covenant veterans that handled the Chapter’s initial training would jokingly refer to them as “watchdogs”, due to the inglorious duty assigned to them by the Adeptus Terra.

- Eh, I can't see how the stern and sinister Chapter like DA cracks jokes about their successor's duty.

 

... upon the completion of their training period and the transference of leadership from the training cadre to the virgin Chapter.

- Lol, virgin?!?

 

Later History:

Twelve hours later, when the Dark Angels made planetfall, they were greeted by the sight of the Lionwatch fighting atop mounds of fallen Orks, executing precise attacks against the Ork leaders and mopping up the panicked remains.

- Orks don't panic.

 

They seethed with the pain of one betrayed by the dearest of friends, and their anger and sorrow would shape the future of the Chapter.

- How it come? The Dark Angels told them to withdraw.

 

Gene-seed

Even considering the relative youth of the Chapter, the gene-seed has been shown to be exceptionally pure.

- Eh? Your Chapter is fighting for more than half of Imperium's history.

 

They will pursue the Fallen for the purpose of learning secrets about the Legion, in the hopes of being able to use those secrets to "fix" the modern Dark Angels.

- Okey. How could they know what is truth and falsify? It's not like the Fallen are reliable source of information or something...

 

I know that I am inconsistent when it comes to capitalizing the word Chapter.

Q: Do you know what is the difference in capitalization?

A: [Hidden for the sanity sake of younger audience. :( ]

It is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse.." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse.."

 

I am considering writing the Chapter Master to have some small psychic potential. Not nearly enough for him to be a Librarian, but I felt it would be characterful for him to have taken a vow of silence, and be able to communicate telepathically with his officers. I'm not even sure that ability is supported in the fluff, but if it is, I am wondering if that small degree of psychic ability would be permitted in a non-Librarian Space Marine.

- Well, not every psyker is walking nuclear warhead, so yes it si possible, but he will still go through the librarian training.

 

Also, is there any fluff establishing whether or not the Watchers in the Dark only serve the Dark Angels, or if they accompany their successor chapters as well?

- I have posed the same question in the DA forum a year ago. No clear answer so far... :RTBBB:

Edited January 11, 2011 by NightrawenII

[WingsOfTheFalcon]

Interesting concept, look forward to seeing how it pans out. :RTBBB:

[Dexter Kong]

- Eh, I can't see how the stern and sinister Chapter like DA cracks jokes about their successor's duty.

I want the chapter to "grow up" in the shadow of the Dark Angels, and feel like they have to prove themselves. I think it helps the story along if the Dark Angels feel they are unworthy due to their assigned duty, and look down upon them for it. I'll probably change "joke" to "insult".

 

Virgin = untried, new, fresh

 

- How it come? The Dark Angels told them to withdraw.

The point of this is that the Dark Angels knew they were too deep in the fighting to execute any sort of effective withdraw, and left the planet and system without lending any sort of aid to the Lionwatch in terms of withdraw. I'll add in something about the Lionwatch requesting help from the Dark Angels to disengage, which was refused due to the urgency of chasing the Fallen. I may also write in, as a post-script, that the information about the Fallen was bogus, and no trace of them was found.

 

- Eh? Your Chapter is fighting for more than half of Imperium's history.

Woops, this is leftover from the original incarnation of the chapter, which had them being founded fairly recently. I'll fix that.

 

- Okey. How could they know what is truth and falsify? It's not like the Fallen are reliable source of information or something...

I suppose this question applies to the entire Imperium in general. How would any random Inquisitor know that the cultist he is interrogating is going to tell him anything other than lies and blasphemy? I think the idea is that the Lionwatch (and every other Imperial agent that interrogates a heretic) expects lies, but perhaps there's some shards of truth in there. Also, the Lionwatch don't trust what they have been told by the Dark Angels, so at this point they are simply interested in collecting as much information as they can, and trying to sort through it later, to try to discern fact from fiction. Keep in mind, they are alone in their task, and feel desperate, so they resort to desperate measures.

 

The bit about capitalization isn't about a noun vs. a verb, it's about a proper noun vs. a noun. Makes it a tad more complicated.

 

Thanks for the input, I'm going to make some of the changes I discussed here and wait for more feedback.

[ringlancer]

a weem oh way

[Dexter Kong]

I've got another question that has a pretty heavy bearing on the beliefs section of my article. In the Dark Angel codex, it states that the Supreme Grand Master is selected from the ranks of the Inner Circle, which includes those in the Dark Angels subchapters. Does this mean that it is possible, however unlikely, that a Supreme Grand Master could be selected from a subchapter? I'm not planning on writing anything that would destroy the fluff as we know it, but possibly writing in an extensive bit about what my chapter is ultimately aiming and scheming towards.

[Ferrata]

My first instinct would be no. I cannot see any reason why a chapter would promote a member from another chapter to lead them. I would put this down to sloppy writing and by "Inner Circle" they mean that of the single chapter.

 

However, there is some wiggle room. With the hints that the Dark Angels operate more as a legion then most (a horrible idea, but one we can work with at the moment), then the Supreme Grand Master could be associated to Legion Commander. If so, it would make sense that they do not solely come from the Dark Angels.

 

However, again, I cannot see anything this would add to a chapter besides complications and a little bit of look at me, look at me, which always detracts from a chapter.

[Octavulg]

Though some have suggested that idea before, but I'd consider it highly unlikely, for basically the same reasons as Ferrata.

 

Of course, I think the DA's legion-ness is mostly a product of the Hunt for the Fallen, and without that they'd be much more independent.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Are you updating the first post with all this information? I only ask because I see a couple of posts with a lot of information in them and I'm wondering if they're being added or integrated with the main body of work, I'd like to read and get to grips with this chapter but I'm a little unsure where to start.

 

The five colour schemes on the first post don't inspire confidence that this is so.

 

As an aside that marine you drew is rather fantastic, I'd say you've got a lot of talent, but I don't want to feed your ego too much. :cuss