Dorn's death

[Brother Tyler]

I think that there's a huge difference between "questioning the validity" of a report and denying anything in the report.

 

In the case of the report in question, there was much about it that portrays the Alpha Legion as performing in a manner far superior to the Ultramarines. It's quite possible that the issues the Ultramarines might have with the report stem from those. There's nothing saying that the Ultramarines deny the basic facts.

 

Practically speaking, when creating a false document, you can only "make facts up" when there is no one to refute them. If other parties to the event remain (in this case, the historical records of the Ultramarines), it's easier to embellish, exaggerate, and misrepresent, leaving the basic facts as they are known and changing small things here and there. This is a basic practice in propaganda, which the IA article later implies the report might be. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Ultramarines called into question a report that portrays them as tactically inferior to anyone. If their own reports don't support the descriptions of exceptional performance by the Alpha Legion, they would rightfully call into question a report that someone else has that does make such claims. Alternately, if their own histories do record exceptional performance on the part of an adversary, they'd likely want to dismiss the report in order to sustain their reputation. The Ultramarines have nothing to gain by supporting a report that portrays them as tactically inferior, so whether that aspect of the report is true or not, of course they're going to call it into question. Nowhere, however, do the Ultramarines refute the claim that Roboute Guilliman killed Alpharius (though it could have been Omegon). Now if we can find some material that says that the Ultramarines (or Roboute Guilliman) deny that the Primarch ever killed Alpharius (or Omegon), then that portion of the report can be discarded. In the absence of such material, however, the case isn't closed.

 

Perhaps I should split the discussion so that we can keep the original discussion about Dorn and have the Guilliman/Alpharius discussion separate.

[Legatus]

The Ultramarines have nothing to gain by supporting a report that portrays them as tactically inferior, so whether that aspect of the report is true or not, of course they're going to call it into question.

Apart from integrity and honesty...

 

Of course, everything the Ultramarines would have learned about the Alpha Legion would have been integrated into the Codex Astartes after that encounter. Actually, they should have had an idea about how the Alpha Legion operates before that encounter, but that is going off topic again.

[Gree]

There's nothing saying that the Ultramarines deny the basic facts.

 

There is nothing saying they support them either. There is nothing saying they support Guilliman killing Alpharius either.

[Brother Tyler]

And that's my point - the case isn't closed.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i figured, that if a loyalist Primarch killed a traitor Primarch, that event would be enounced and celebrated by the Imperium. The death of any of those traitors would be a massive boost to Imperial Morale and a restoration of the tarnished honor of the Space Marines.

 

since this was never done, (and i dont care how modest people claim Guilliman is, anybody would celebrate this or atleast see the value in announcing it), to me, it never happened.

 

WLK

[Legatus]

I dunno. They were still brothers. And the Ultramarines then burned Alpharius' body on a pyre, which on many cultures is a honourable burial. Maybe finding and defeating the traitor Primarchs was something that every loyalist Primarchs was hell bent on doing, but not something they enjoyed or would celebrate.

[Pulse]

since this was never done, (and i dont care how modest people claim Guilliman is, anybody would celebrate this or atleast see the value in announcing it), to me, it never happened.

I think to many it never happened.

 

The last time i heard anyone say they thought it was true was a few months ago at WHW and they got heckled and laughed at by every staff member in the room.

[randian]

i figured, that if a loyalist Primarch killed a traitor Primarch, that event would be enounced and celebrated by the Imperium. The death of any of those traitors would be a massive boost to Imperial Morale and a restoration of the tarnished honor of the Space Marines.

The present-day Imperium officially denies the existence of the Traitor Primarchs. Given that the supposed death of Alpharius occurred some centuries and generations after the Heresy, it wouldn't surprise me if the High Lords preferred to bury the news rather than broadcast it.

[Legatus]

Given that the supposed death of Alpharius occurred some centuries and generations after the Heresy

According to the Index Astartes Alpha Legion it seems to have happened during the Heresy, when the Ultramarines Legion was racing to Terra to support the loyal forces.

 

That might also explan why Guilliman did not want to commit to a prolonged campaign on Eskrador...