Anticipating Dan Abnett's Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons

[Prot]

NOTE++++ The following may contain spoilers from Horus Heresy novels, and specifically The Thousand Sons novel++++

 

 

As an Abnett fan I am dying for Prospero Burns. I really enjoy Abnett's work, but really if you aren't an IG fan, it's hard to get a good dose of his stuff. (Still loved Double Eagle) I confess I own Brotherhood of the Snake, but haven't read it. I'm caught up finishing First Heretic right now.... then Nemesis.

 

I just pre-ordered Prospero Burns and noticed it is supposed to ship, locally, on Dec.28. That's quite a wait. I know Dan was ill, and I hope all is better with him. It sounds like a difficult time for him and his family. But you never know, this could have made the book better.... or worse? I'm not sure what something like that does to your writing concentration.

 

If you haven't seen, Dan is big on having props for his subject matter, and I think for Prospero Burns he found a cool battle axe from a store and plopped it down at his desk for inspiration. (I probably would have had a beer instead, but I'm sure drinking and writing isn't a good idea for me.)

 

Anyway, I'm really hoping we see Leman Russ early in the book.... and some of the other guys we've all read about. I've really enjoyed the way some writers have taken 'footnote' characters from old sources (IA articles for example) and flushed them out into cool characters. Can you imagine Bjorn? I imagine a hulk of an astartes that eats wild boars for break fast and washes it down with anti-freeze.

 

I'm hoping to see more of Fenris... all of it. I know we've got a glimpse of some of the viking/feudal warring on the violent planet but I want to learn more of the Thunderwolves, kraken, and miscellaneous beasts a Fenrisian has to grow up with. (It really makes you wonder how a Blood Claw Marine ends up with Weapon Skill 3, doesn't it?????!!!!)

 

The Thousand Sons:

 

I'm going out on a limb and saying this is my favorite McNeill novel since Storm of Iron. (And no, not just because it's Space Wolves).

 

We were told The Thousand Sons was going to be a mirror of the events of Prospero Burns. That being said I hope to see more of some events in Thousand Sons from the Wolves side of the story. Namely:

 

- The relationship between the Rune Priest and Ahriman. The way Wolves describe, and believe in their form of 'weird craft' or warp powers was interesting. It made for an interesting ethical question that Ahriman deals with.

 

- Are Space Wolves hard wired to extinguish 'faulty' marines? Do we get to hear more about this? We know from the Horus Heresy and other sources, two Primarchs had to be destroyed. (I'm assuming at this point one is Blood Ravens.... and this might be hinted at in Thousand Sons (the visionary) and possibly confirmed in 'Prospero Burns'????)

 

It would be interesting to know if the Wolves were hardwired to smash marines. Prior to Grey Knights, were Space Wolves long arm of the law (I mean a longer arm than the Custodes are capable of?)

 

- I personally like how Wolves play in a largely defensive psychic manner.....and this is echoed in Thousand Sons. Leman Russ is BEASTLY against Magnus. Psychic energy that is literally tearing some Wolves apart is merely bouncing off of Leman. More of this please. :tu:

 

- Once the Thousand Sons have lost control over their powers.... all is lost for them, they realize they've become the beasts they warn against.... I am curious to see the Wolves side of this.

 

There's a lot of stuff I'm looking forward too... I just wish it wasn't such a long wait!!!

[Bulweih]

I'm right there with you brother, really exited about this book.

You should really give 'Brotherhood of the snake' a read, I really enjoyed it, I even had Abnett sign it for me last year, great book. Also, in 'The Sabbat Worlds Crusade' there's an extension to 'Double Eagle' and Abnett tells the reader the title of the sequel to it :P . But I'm still waiting on First Heretic and Nemesis to arrive, though I much enjoyed 'Garro Oath of moment'.

 

You have made some good points. I want to learn more of our feral homeworld and what makes a Fenrisian life, too. The WS 3 is not giving the fluff of fenrisian people credit, not one bit. Also I'd like a clear solution to the mess McNeill started with the quote about the Fenrisian wolves not being wolves at all.

And yes I can picture Bjorn but I feel he'll star in the SM Battles novel 'Battle for the Fang' instead, I hope for the Wolflord of the 13th.

 

The point of us being hardwired to execute legions that rebell sounds tempting but is contrary to some other stuff.

Don't get me wrong, there's an Abnett quote from the WD where it says that the only reason the emperor granted Russ and his wolves a that long leash is that they were the preferred tool to rid out another legion-and I strongly believe that, yet not that we were hardwired like the GK have their 'hardwiring', we remain more human then all other Space Marines so it would require something much more subtle, like our canis helix.

We'll hopefully see.

 

I have the preview catalogue of BL from the local Games Day and there's a little piece of 'Prospero Burns' inside........ahhh me, happy days, makes your mouth water more then the best fenrisian ale.

I'll say no more on the matter because anything will likely be a spoiler.

[Grimtooth]

I'm right there with you brother, really exited about this book.

You should really give 'Brotherhood of the snake' a read, I really enjoyed it, I even had Abnett sign it for me last year, great book. Also, in 'The Sabbat Worlds Crusade' there's an extension to 'Double Eagle' and Abnett tells the reader the title of the sequel to it . But I'm still waiting on First Heretic and Nemesis to arrive, though I much enjoyed 'Garro Oath of moment'.

 

You have made some good points. I want to learn more of our feral homeworld and what makes a Fenrisian life, too. The WS 3 is not giving the fluff of fenrisian people credit, not one bit. Also I'd like a clear solution to the mess McNeill started with the quote about the Fenrisian wolves not being wolves at all.

And yes I can picture Bjorn but I feel he'll star in the SM Battles novel 'Battle for the Fang' instead, I hope for the Wolflord of the 13th.

 

The point of us being hardwired to execute legions that rebell sounds tempting but is contrary to some other stuff.

Don't get me wrong, there's an Abnett quote from the WD where it says that the only reason the emperor granted Russ and his wolves a that long leash is that they were the preferred tool to rid out another legion-and I strongly believe that, yet not that we were hardwired like the GK have their 'hardwiring', we remain more human then all other Space Marines so it would require something much more subtle, like our canis helix.

We'll hopefully see.

 

I have the preview catalogue of BL from the local Games Day and there's a little piece of 'Prospero Burns' inside........ahhh me, happy days, makes your mouth water more then the best fenrisian ale.

I'll say no more on the matter because anything will likely be a spoiler.

 

The part emboldened above is what I think makes the Space Wolves the most powerful Legion; retaining their humanity despite being created to only serve in war. Out of all the Legions, the Space Wolves would be able to go back to Fenris and assume a life "after' the galaxy was conquered. They keep that part of them alive even after the transformation into a Space Wolf. That sense of still being part of the human race, despite the physical differences brought on by the transformation, allows them to "really" fight for not just the Imperium, but for the human race. Psychologically, I think this makes them the ideal Legion to take on traitor Legions.

[MaveriK]

- Are Space Wolves hard wired to extinguish 'faulty' marines? Do we get to hear more about this? We know from the Horus Heresy and other sources, two Primarchs had to be destroyed. (I'm assuming at this point one is Blood Ravens.... and this might be hinted at in Thousand Sons (the visionary) and possibly confirmed in 'Prospero Burns'????)

Blood Ravens? LMAO really?.. sheesh. Anyway, the two missing legions are briefly mentioned in the book First Heretic, and sheds some light with what happened. Apparently Russ was really close to one of the brothers.

[Khavos]

I'm looking forward to it because it's Abnett, and because he promised that there wouldn't be any overwrought, cliched "Yarr, we be Vikings, give me an ale!" crap in it. So it just might be able to convince me to like Space Wolves, as I'd dearly love to use the codex. BA players apparently didn't have the sort of photos of Matt Ward that SW players so clearly had of Phil Kelly.

[Simo429]

It will have to be something special to surpass First Heretic as my favourite Horus Heresy book.

 

I have no shame to say I just reviewed that book on the blog I write on.

 

I was left disapointed with Thousand sons so I am hoping that Abnett quells the anger that lies within my breast at the depiction of our brothers.

[Prot]

What disappointed you about Thousand Sons?

 

I thought that even as it was written from a Thousand Sons perspective, the Wolves are no push over. I didn't see them come off as half witted drunkards either. And considering the writing of Into the Abyss, that is a relief.

 

The only moment I thought was over the top was when for a time it appears the Thousand sons are all immense psychics that are so powerfull, they merely have to fart in the general direction of Wolves, and they disintegrate. That just seems.... like a bit too much.

 

But I thought even the Wolf Rune Priest was handled with relative care. He had his assets, and there was no denying he was powerful, even if some of his 'understanding' of the 'weird' was a little off center as to keep it within Fenrisian lore.

 

Russ was pretty amazing. Heck even a Wolves captain is calling out Magnus.... I thought the wolves were respectable. I liked Ahriman best in the novel. But Abnett will be awesome.

[CainTheHunter]

Prot are You based in Europe/UK? I was recently looking at pre-order on the Maelstrom Games. and got the idea that they will ship on December 12, 2010 - ASAP after the release.

I might just as well wait a bit longer, because I don't want my order to be caught between the Christmas and New-Year postal madness, risking it become lost.

[Darkseer]

Russ was pretty amazing. Heck even a Wolves captain is calling out Magnus.... I thought the wolves were respectable. I liked Ahriman best in the novel. But Abnett will be awesome.

 

Russ was incredible wasn't he? I was particularly stunned by his 'anti-psyker howl' that kills and cripples loads of Thousand Sons in a co-operative attack on an enemy stronghold. The Space Wolves certainly aren't safe to fight alongside are they? lol

[Prot]

Prot are You based in Europe/UK? I was recently looking at pre-order on the Maelstrom Games. and got the idea that they will ship on December 12, 2010 - ASAP after the release.

I might just as well wait a bit longer, because I don't want my order to be caught between the Christmas and New-Year postal madness, risking it become lost.

 

I'm Canada... thus I'm sure I won't get the darn book until well into the New Year. :angry:

 

 

Russ was pretty amazing. Heck even a Wolves captain is calling out Magnus.... I thought the wolves were respectable. I liked Ahriman best in the novel. But Abnett will be awesome.

 

Russ was incredible wasn't he? I was particularly stunned by his 'anti-psyker howl' that kills and cripples loads of Thousand Sons in a co-operative attack on an enemy stronghold. The Space Wolves certainly aren't safe to fight alongside are they? lol

 

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. I mentioned elsewhere that it seems the Wolves are really built to take on Astartes. In this case they are even better suited for the Thousand Sons. I even like how on the table top they can be very psyker defensive.

 

But yes, Russ is extremely impressive. I just have this image of him walking right up the middle of a war torn city, bashing Thousand Sons aside, and making beeline right for Magnus. It's a good scene.

[calgar101]

I loved the way the Wolves were portrayed in A Thousand Sons; just the way I imagine them to be, a no nonsense legion of warriors who have a code of honour and respect and a legion who knows how to relax and who fights for humanity as well as the Emperor.

[Darkseer]

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. I mentioned elsewhere that it seems the Wolves are really built to take on Astartes. In this case they are even better suited for the Thousand Sons. I even like how on the table top they can be very psyker defensive.

 

In the YouTube preview for A Thousand Sons, Dan Abnett actually says that the Space Wolves are designed for taking out another Legion.

Scary stuff!

[Prot]

Really?

I'll have to check that out.

 

I've been rethinking my answer... why I play Wolves.

 

I don't think there is any difference in my answer as far as the tabletop. They're just fun and unique. (I've never played the massive TWC list, and don't intend to!)

 

But as a background the Legion is bigger than a bunch of grunting idiots with beer in paw. Fenris in itself is where I come from.... I live in a city that has very warm summers but the winters are BRUTAL. There are times when we rank with the coldest place on the planet. And you know what? A place like this does breed survivors.

 

Fenris is a planet loaded with survivors, but it's something else someone else said and it's bloody true; Space Wolves might be the most human of the legions. I guess Fenris is a big part of it. It seems it moulds them, and remains with them throughout their service.

 

Also I like that they are very loyal, to Russ, and to the Emperor but without the staunch stuffiness of a legion like Ultramarines. This may get them in trouble sometimes, but I'd imagine I'd want a Space Wolf on my side at the end of the day.

 

A ha! It's true... I knew it.... I found the link. Took a while:

Preview to Prospero Burns + A Thousand Sons

[CainTheHunter]

But as a background the Legion is bigger than a bunch of grunting idiots with beer in paw. Fenris in itself is where I come from.... I live in a city that has very warm summers but the winters are BRUTAL. There are times when we rank with the coldest place on the planet. And you know what? A place like this does breed survivors.

 

I observe that Space Wolves are quite popular in the coldest parts of this planet ^_^

[Marshal Wilhelm]

The only moment I thought was over the top was when for a time it appears the Thousand sons are all immense psychics that are so powerfull, they merely have to fart in the general direction of Wolves, and they disintegrate. That just seems.... like a bit too much.

 

But I thought even the Wolf Rune Priest was handled with relative care. He had his assets, and there was no denying he was powerful, even if some of his 'understanding' of the 'weird' was a little off center as to keep it within Fenrisian lore.

 

Russ was pretty amazing. Heck even a Wolves captain is calling out Magnus.... I thought the wolves were respectable. I liked Ahriman best in the novel. But Abnett will be awesome.

 

I have always believed that had the Thousand Sons not turned, then yes, they'd have been Marines++ over all the rest, I guess akin to the Grey Knights.

It is just that they were not overtly hostile like the World Eaters that stopped them from being the winningest Legion. But they got their power from being bookish, and bookish doesn't leave you with much time for head taking.

More fighting makes for less magic skill and so less prowess.

More study makes for more magic skill but less time for results.

 

On the captain calling out Magnus, brave or ignorant? B)

Even the not hyper-aggressive Primarchs would have belted him. Given that Magnus was

Chaos's 1st choice for their hero, and that Horus was the most winning Primarch and had charisma+, speaks to me that Magnus was the greatest Primarch.

It just so happens that Leman Russ was the perfect rock to Magnus's scissors.

Thumbs up to the Emperor on picking the right guys to kill the Thousand Sons, if not for attacking ".... its most dedicated warriors. Though utterly loyal.... "

D'oh!

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Thumbs up to the Emperor on picking the right guys to kill the Thousand Sons, if not for attacking ".... its most dedicated warriors. Though utterly loyal.... "

D'oh!

 

a great warrior and general once said "So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."

 

it just so happens that your point of view is wrong in this case!

 

WLK

[col_ki]

I have always believed that had the Thousand Sons not turned, then yes, they'd have been Marines++ over all the rest, I guess akin to the Grey Knights.

 

Spoiler Alert:

 

Without Magnus' bargain with Tzeentch, their gene-seed flaw would have wiped them all out. It was pretty much chaos or bust.

 

 

I found the combat sections of the book a little dull (always too one-sided with no sense of struggle, even if 10% of that time is sided towards non-1k), and could have done without the remembrancers at all, but it was still quite enjoyable. I think Prospero Burns will be great.

[Prot]

It just so happens that Leman Russ was the perfect rock to Magnus's scissors.

Very true. How would Russ fair against something like the World Eaters? Or White Scars? Would he have been so brazen? Probably not. I imagine Russ to be a good judge of the best way to hunt his prey.

 

It just so happens that Leman Russ was the perfect rock to Magnus's scissors.

Thumbs up to the Emperor on picking the right guys to kill the Thousand Sons, if not for attacking ".... its most dedicated warriors. Though utterly loyal.... "

D'oh!

 

There might be a bigger manipulation here that we are not aware of... yet. BUT the one thing I just don't understand is why the Emperor didn't tell his kids WHY he didn't want them putting their hands in the cookie jar (tapping the warp). I mean to just berate them for snacking is never going to work. But if they would have truly understood what they were doing..... the big question is: Would they have done it?

 

It was already in stone that Magnus was going to:

 

Rip apart the Emperor's little gate on Terra.

But Chaos manipulated this, and therefore prompted the Emperor to order the attack. Was he wrong to do that considering how many of the Thousand Sons ended up succumbing to the nasties of the warp? Again though you gotta ask the question, would they have done this if Dad had just been honest with them?

 

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Thumbs up to the Emperor on picking the right guys to kill the Thousand Sons, if not for attacking ".... its most dedicated warriors. Though utterly loyal.... "

D'oh!

 

a great warrior and general once said "So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."

 

it just so happens that your point of view is wrong in this case!

 

WLK

 

Boo!

It is on the back of the book, and therefore correct! :yes:

 

 

I have always believed that had the Thousand Sons not turned, then yes, they'd have been Marines++ over all the rest, I guess akin to the Grey Knights.

 

Spoiler Alert:

 

Without Magnus' bargain with Tzeentch, their gene-seed flaw would have wiped them all out. It was pretty much chaos or bust.

 

 

I found the combat sections of the book a little dull (always too one-sided with no sense of struggle, even if 10% of that time is sided towards non-1k), and could have done without the remembrancers at all, but it was still quite enjoyable. I think Prospero Burns will be great.

 

Yes, I guess my viewpoint is still coloured by older fluff that hadn't shown that this was the case. ^_^

 

I wonder what would have happened if they'd complied with the Emperor at Nikea and confessed all, of course with only the Emperor listening?

 

 

 

Whilst the remembrancers may seem un-necessary in this book, I feel that their inclusion will become evident in PB, but McNeill had the ground work end of it.

 

It just so happens that Leman Russ was the perfect rock to Magnus's scissors.

Very true. How would Russ fair against something like the World Eaters? Or White Scars? Would he have been so brazen? Probably not. I imagine Russ to be a good judge of the best way to hunt his prey.

 

It just so happens that Leman Russ was the perfect rock to Magnus's scissors.

Thumbs up to the Emperor on picking the right guys to kill the Thousand Sons, if not for attacking ".... its most dedicated warriors. Though utterly loyal.... "

D'oh!

 

There might be a bigger manipulation here that we are not aware of... yet. BUT the one thing I just don't understand is why the Emperor didn't tell his kids WHY he didn't want them putting their hands in the cookie jar (tapping the warp). I mean to just berate them for snacking is never going to work. But if they would have truly understood what they were doing..... the big question is: Would they have done it?

 

It was already in stone that Magnus was going to:

 

Rip apart the Emperor's little gate on Terra.

But Chaos manipulated this, and therefore prompted the Emperor to order the attack. Was he wrong to do that considering how many of the Thousand Sons ended up succumbing to the nasties of the warp? Again though you gotta ask the question, would they have done this if Dad had just been honest with them?

 

 

Mmmm, yeah Russ would always have studied and then acted. I think it was Ahriman thinking how knowledge was for the killing in Leman's eyes. It is easy to associate simple [tactics] with simple [being thick]. Given that natural wolves go to great lengths in planning and tactics to bring down the prey, it is easy to imagine the Space Wolves being even more cunning.

Russ was just effective. Top 3 for victories attests to that.

 

+++

 

I know right? Best be honest and everyone is in solid ground, even if they have to take a few [thousand?] steps backwards.

Hopefully this gets cleared up.

 

I think they could do a Dorn book and have the warp issue in it.

 

1] Dorn's early success and good relations with everyone [i remember that he and Perturabo did used to be friends, which is BL material]

A] The Emperor talking with Malcador about the 'master-plan' and why Terra needed to be fortified.

2] Dorn getting chosen by the Emperor and the falling out with Turbs.

B] The Emperor implementing the 'master plan' and becoming unreachable.

3] Dorn having to be the Imperial Warmaster once the Heresy becomes apparent.

 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@Prot: According the the Collected Visions, the Emperor had warned Magnus of what was in the warp, annd just how dangerous it all could be.

he then makes him swear to delve in any further.

Magnus agrees.

Magnus then continues his research, becuase of the power promised to him by the warp.

 

WLK

[Prot]

@Prot: According the the Collected Visions, the Emperor had warned Magnus of what was in the warp, annd just how dangerous it all could be.

he then makes him swear to delve in any further.

Magnus agrees.

Magnus then continues his research, becuase of the power promised to him by the warp.

 

WLK

 

Interesting. I haven't read that, even though I own that! lol

 

I'm not sure if this rings true as far as the books are concerned though, and for the sake of this discussion, I'm assuming only the HH novels for fact. In A Thousand Sons, you would think there would have been SOME mention of said discussion with dad. There are many scenes where this could have taken place when Ahriman is questioning Magnus' motivations.... or when Magnus is on trial... but no. It never happens. It's just like this 'out of bounds' area. A place you're not supposed to be after dark, but no explanation of why. Heck, a good number of Librarians DEFEND the Thousand Sons at their trial. It would appear to me these Librarians are equally ignorant.

 

What about the Wolves? They use Librarians/Rune Priests, but their 'belief' comes from artifact and customs. Does this make it safer? Or just insure the Wolves only dabble in low level/defensive type stuff? At any rate it would appear the Wolves don't understand the true nature of using mind powers to bend spoons. But the Emperor seems ok with it because they don't dabble deep enough? I'm not sure.

 

On a side note I noticed Dan Abnett said some things in his video that gave me a huge sigh of relief; basically he said he looked at this as an opportunity to take the dreaded, stereotypical Wolf goofiness and get rid of it.... I say bravo. Dan's not the only writer to attempt this, but let's be honest, his book will have a great impact on what we carry forward for Wolf 'imagery'.