10man powerweapon squad in wolfwing army?

[Token]

Would a 10man wolfguard unit, all with powerweapons, in a landraider be dangerous? Kinda like howling banshees, or whatever they are called, but tougher. Specialised in killing marines and termies, perhaps with a fist/hammer or two to make them able to kill dreads and such too.

Would it be good?

[Max_Dammit]

I think it would be over kill in most situations but it will kill troops with ease

[Token]

Overkill? Really? I was thinking of adding Ragnar to the squad, but having two characters at about 250p each is probably too much.. And if it is allready overkill then it perhaps isnt nessicary(how do you spell that?)..

[Br0ther Rafen]

what's so bad about overkill? at least you know that you are going to kill them. ;)

Anyway, if your going to play it in tournies, i would tone it down to mabye only 3-4PW's, and then add in some Storm Shields. This way, the squad will be more survivable against scarier things, like say REAL Howling Banshees with Doom. Now that's scary. If you want to do it for fun, go ahead and have 10 guys with PW's running around eating through pretty much anything. just beware of big, scary things which ignore armour saves. Avoid them, and you'll be fine ;)

[Darkseer]

For the equivalent points, you're better off having them all in terminator armour with power weapons and storm bolters.

 

Never take a Wolf Guard pack unless they're in terminator armour. Otherwise they're the same cost, but with worse armour.

 

Best squad load out is:

2 Wolf Guard in terminator armour with combi-plasma and power sword.

1 Wolf Guard in terminator armour with combi-melta and power sword.

1 Wolf Guard in terminator armour with combi-melta and Chainfist.

1 Wolf Guard in terminator armour with storm bolter, powersword and cyclone missile launcher

 

...in a Land Raider ;)

 

More here

[marine77]

The issue with the 10 man wolf guard squad with power weapons is that it is expensive. A competent player will throw a sacrificial unit in front of it and let it get eaten in your turn. Then in their turn, they will torrent you with every kind of shooting they have. No more 10 man unit. The only option would be to upgrade these guys to terminators which will make them more expensive and the same thing will happen though you will soak more fire, but 1s will get rolled.

 

If you want a killy uber unit, go for a 14 strong blood claw unit with ragnar and put them in a landraider. Use the landraider to get them across the board, have them assault from the LR and then with a million attacks, they will still do a good job of eating unit and they are a cheaper option. IF you don't like blood claws, take a tricked out grey hunter squad with 2 meltas, mark of the wulfen, wolf standard, and ragnar/wolf guard.

[nurglez]

but the thing is, for an uber killy squad you can just go for 10 grey hunters if you are throwing ragnar into the mix.

 

10 GH, ragnar and space for 1 more in a redeemer, make sure to go for a motw, standard and maybe a powerfist, and watch the enemy squad crumble when you charge :D

[Thunderhawk3015]

If you are going to do this, better to just give your WG Frost Blades and Storm Shields so they can survive and can unload all kinds of pain onto anyone they get into close combat with.

[CainTheHunter]

Everything with Ragnar becomes uber-killy, as well as uber-expensive.

 

Unless of course we might attach him to a unit of 15 Fenrisian wolves and watch them butcher enemy terminators. After Furious Charge we get 120 points unit with I5, S5 and 3-5 attacks on the charge. That's some 45-75 attacks - holy crap!!!

[Taeken]

I'm in the middle of making a similar unit. Kinda modeling them after the Huscarls at Hastings. Bunch of dudes with big axes sounds great to me. The Storm Shield idea isnt bad. I may just have to model a few with magnetized SS's.

[Token]

What is Huscarls at Hastings?

[CainTheHunter]

What is Huscarls at Hastings?

 

Saxon axe-men.

[Skalver]

The issue with the 10 man wolf guard squad with power weapons is that it is expensive. A competent player will throw a sacrificial unit in front of it and let it get eaten in your turn. Then in their turn, they will torrent you with every kind of shooting they have. No more 10 man unit. The only option would be to upgrade these guys to terminators which will make them more expensive and the same thing will happen though you will soak more fire, but 1s will get rolled.

 

If you want a killy uber unit, go for a 14 strong blood claw unit with ragnar and put them in a landraider. Use the landraider to get them across the board, have them assault from the LR and then with a million attacks, they will still do a good job of eating unit and they are a cheaper option. IF you don't like blood claws, take a tricked out grey hunter squad with 2 meltas, mark of the wulfen, wolf standard, and ragnar/wolf guard.

 

For 10 points less than 14 blood claws you could get 10 wolf guard and buy 2 fenrisian wolves for ragnar.

 

Depending on how many attacks you roll for Insane Bravado on the charge you have:

 

1 = BCs get 56 attacks, WG get 46 attacks.

2 = BCs get 56 attacks, WG get 58 attacks.

3 = BCs get 70 attacks, WG get 70 attacks.

 

Considering the Wolf Guard attacks are also all at WS 4 I would expect that Wolf Guard pack to outperform the blood claws in nearly every situation (Note: I counted the wolf attacks as wolf guard attacks). If that unit recieves a charge the blood claws get 42 attacks while the Wolf Guard get 46.

 

Putting Ragnar with Blood Claws is very wasteful since his Insane Bravado gets wasted 2/3 of the time. It is much better to put a Wolf Priest with them for the rerolls to hit.

[Taeken]

Cain beat me to it. The Battle of Hastings was a rather pivotal battle in England's history. One of the central military units of that battle was the Huskarls of Harold Big bad ass dudes with big bad ass axes carried and swung from the left side to counter the use of the enemies shields.

... and I just geeked out enough for the day ;)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Overkill? Really? I was thinking of adding Ragnar to the squad, but having two characters at about 250p each is probably too much.. And if it is allready overkill then it perhaps isnt nessicary (how do you spell that?)..

 

necessary

 

Beware the shiny that is the amazing Hero.

 

Lord Ragnar vs MEq

s6 i6 7a

 

7 attacks - 4.62 hits - 3.8 wounds = 3.8 dead.

 

16 Grey hunters vs MEq

3a x 16

48 attacks - 24 hits - 12 wounds - 4 failed saves

 

Pretty close. But then how about after the charge?

 

Ragnar

s5 i5 a5

 

5 attacks - 3.3 hits - 2.2 dead.

 

16 Grey Hunters

2a x 16

32 attacks - 16 hit - 8 wound - 2.7 failed saves.

 

The gap starts to widen.

 

The Greys can shoot far better and are tougher too, point for point. I used to take two HQs at 1500 pts [Marshal and Emperor's Champion] but after being confronted with this reality, I decided to use the points for more Marines.

 

+++

 

I am not sure about using WG with PW and power armour. You save 5 pts over the Term armour [so 50 over the unit], but don't get the Storm bolter and 2+5++

You do get to run down people in assaults though.

EDIT: and get an extra attack in an assault!

 

Although MEq is hardier than Ragnar ;) it is not something that I'd want to leave out in the open. They are 186.7% more expensive than a Grey Hunter. I know I'd be shooting at them if I got the chance ;)

 

Maybe you could try using both units for a few games before committing?

[nurglez]

math is wrong for ragnars attacks in the second phase, as he would have had +3.8 attacks more due to his saga of the warrior born, and kill quite a few more if you used a wolf standard that phase :cuss

[Marshal Wilhelm]

math is wrong for ragnars attacks in the second phase, as he would have had +3.8 attacks more due to his saga of the warrior born, and kill quite a few more if you used a wolf standard that phase :D

:lol:

:cuss

 

The Wolves got charged, no previous assault ;)

:P

[Tsavong Lah]

The Wolves got charged, no previous assault

 

Then your math is still wrong—they almost certainly passed their Counter-Attack roll. ;)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

The Wolves got charged, no previous assault

 

Then your math is still wrong—they almost certainly passed their Counter-Attack roll. ;)

 

I decided they didn't :P

 

If both Ragnar and the Greys did pass their CA, it favours the Greys even more so B)

 

EDIT:

16 Grey hunters vs MEq

3a x 16

48 attacks - 24 hits - 12 wounds - 4 failed saves

 

Ragnar

s5 i5 a6

6 attacks - 4.0 hits - 2.64 dead.

[Redeye]

I run a sqd of 10 WG in PA armed with PW and SS with a battle leader with PW and SS and Ragnar mounted in a LRR.

They look cool but to be honest i have not had much luck with it.

[Blarmb]

I'm not sold on PW WG. They're a good deal offensively, getting 4 S4 Power Attacks each at under 30 points. The problem is at only i4 and no invul they don't really have a target for those attacks.

 

Any unit that doesn't particularly want to be in CC doesn't need that volume of S4 Power Weapon attacks thrown at it Grey Hunters or Fenrisian Wolves can handle it just fine. In other words it's over kill for things that shoot.

 

Any unit that does want to be in CC and has an armor save worth a damn, is either going to laugh at i4 or laugh at no invul

 

The unit lives in this awkward area where it really only wants to be aimed at Tactical Squads, Devastators and other shooty MEQ on foot.

[TiguriusX]

I'm not sold on PW WG. They're a good deal offensively, getting 4 S4 Power Attacks each at under 30 points. The problem is at only i4 and no invul they don't really have a target for those attacks.

 

Any unit that doesn't particularly want to be in CC doesn't need that volume of S4 Power Weapon attacks thrown at it Grey Hunters or Fenrisian Wolves can handle it just fine. In other words it's over kill for things that shoot.

 

Any unit that does want to be in CC and has an armor save worth a damn, is either going to laugh at i4 or laugh at no invul

 

The unit lives in this awkward area where it really only wants to be aimed at Tactical Squads, Devastators and other shooty MEQ on foot.

 

You could add Ragnar and give the unit I-5 on the furious charge...but that is adding more cost to a unit that is already expensive.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I'm not sold on PW WG. They're a good deal offensively, getting 4 S4 Power Attacks each at under 30 points. The problem is at only i4 and no invul they don't really have a target for those attacks.

 

Any unit that doesn't particularly want to be in CC doesn't need that volume of S4 Power Weapon attacks thrown at it Grey Hunters or Fenrisian Wolves can handle it just fine. In other words it's over kill for things that shoot.

 

Any unit that does want to be in CC and has an armor save worth a damn, is either going to laugh at i4 or laugh at no invul

 

The unit lives in this awkward area where it really only wants to be aimed at Tactical Squads, Devastators and other shooty MEQ on foot.

 

Perhaps you are right about it not having a target. Not one that is ideal. So I thought to have a squiz at the back of the BBB.

 

All MEq.

TEq without Storm shields, especially power fist ones.

Helps kill all GEq quicker, but no major targets there besides Storm troopers 4+ save.

Sisters

Plague bearers [takes away FNP]

Not really Nids

Any Celdar stuff, perhaps besides the Warlock or Harlequin squads

Deldar non super mêlée units, as they have FNP tokens.

Nobz [takes away eavy armour and FNP] Mega Nobz and Ard boyz

Tau

Necrons

 

Many of these ones may not be the guys who you want to roll in combat, but I think these do provide you with good targets in most armies. I think it is only Nids who have no one that relies on armour and is someone you can beat up....?

 

10 WG can take some three wounds off a Hammernator squad or t6 monstrous creature, so can be used to polish them off after shooting has weakened them.

 

I think, as you were saying, the WG would be more of a bully squad as they don't have ++ saves or i5. But that's okay, just have them mug those things I have listed ~ war doesn't have to be heroic :tu:

[slmellon]

We play a lot of 2500 pt games where I am and I have been seriously considering this list but I have to have some fists too, because its hard to kill Wraithlords and dreads without them! plus I have another 5 with fists for my GHs/WSs, 2 TDA CF, TDA HF (unit of three), TDA CML w my LFs giving me twenty. But I'm not really competitive and like building odd fluffy lists. But Ive got a 72 man SW horde I run sometimes too