Deathstars Analyzed

[marine77]

I have heard a lot about various deathstar builds for Space Wolves, so I thought I might analyze what they look like, what they accomplish, and how one might build a list around them. You can see my first article at my blog. Gone to Ground

 

This article takes a look at 15 Blood Claws led by Ragnar in a LRC. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

[Skirax]

I have heard a lot about various deathstar builds for Space Wolves, so I thought I might analyze what they look like, what they accomplish, and how one might build a list around them. You can see my first article at my blog. Gone to Ground

 

This article takes a look at 15 Blood Claws led by Ragnar in a LRC. Let me know what you think. Thanks!

Ragnar, 14 Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest. Fearless always helps.

[nurglez]

i personally think a full squad of 10 grey hunters is better support then 14 bloodclaws. as you get a wolf standard which is just awesome, although only 1 use it can help if you roll a 1 for bonus attacks from ragnar if you charge :cuss

 

also you can make it even more deathtstar by adding 1 more character, for example a wolf priest, or kitted out wolf lord :lol:

[Spacefrisian]

I also think Bloodclaws are far from being deathstar.

 

Ragnar + wolves

Ulrik

Wolfpriest

10 Greyhunters

Wolfguard

 

In Crusader might cost 2x or 3x more but are so much deadlier.

[marine77]

I am not disputing whether or not it is the best deathstar unit, I am merely stating that I have seen itused as a deathstar many times. I thought I might analyze what it is capable of. I personally would never run it, but on paper, it really does look nasty. I don't think it will be able to compete with some of the nastier builds out there though.

 

@Spacefrisian- The unit you mentioned wouldn't actually fit in a LRC. Fenrisian wolves count as 2 models for transport purposes, so your unit would actually count as 18 models for transport purposes. But you are right, they have to have a LRC transport to be even remotely good. If they footslog, they are toast.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I'm planning on trying to use a Logan deathstar with 9-10 WG terminators. This would be backed up by 1 scout, 2x full LF's with missles, 3xGH Drop pod packs

 

Logan

9WG TDA:

3xSS/3xWC

2xPW/2xcombi Plasma

2xCyclones/2xfists

2xPW/Storm Bolters

[Wysten]

Interesting, just a a throught.

 

That being said, I would always round down, 3.3 indicates that the tactical marine being hit would more often survice then die. There is 6th of a chance of that guy surving the toughness save, so he would statisctically kill 3 tactical marines and occitionally kill a 4th. You always round to the nearest number, the numbers should always speak for itself.

 

I definately agree that blood claws is points wasted though. You lose half the reason you would take those guys anyways, superious number of attacks. If theres a possiblity of making it worse, it's points being wasted. I would rather take Grey Hunters, use the extra points to bulk up the Thunder Wolf or give the Grey Hunters more attack quaility to make up for the missing quanity, standards, Power Weapons/Fist. Mark of the Wolven. I would definately make something comparing that against Blood Claws to dispell the myth.

[marine77]

I agree. I am of the opinion that if you are going to deathstar with Space Wolf list, it needs to be in a Loganwing or a Wolfstar. I was just presenting this setup as it is one of the ones I have seen mentioned or used more than a handful of times. I also agree that adding the wolf priest would improve the unit, though it adds to the overal price tag of the deathstar and if the unit fails, you are less likely to actually do anything significant with the rest.

[Wysten]

I agree. I am of the opinion that if you are going to deathstar with Space Wolf list, it needs to be in a Loganwing or a Wolfstar. I was just presenting this setup as it is one of the ones I have seen mentioned or used more than a handful of times. I also agree that adding the wolf priest would improve the unit, though it adds to the overal price tag of the deathstar and if the unit fails, you are less likely to actually do anything significant with the rest.

 

Aye. Though that being said, provided you have the unit tutored to what it wants to do. Blood Claws are interesting with a Wolf Priest, but personal preferance is Skyclaws/Swift Claws. Just because they are mobile combat units and if his unit gets too battered, he joins up onto a Grey Hunter squad with not too much fuss.

 

Rangar as a deathstar in my honest opinon is flawed. I would much rather have him ferried up in a Rhino with several packs of Thunder Wolf and use him to enhance their effectiveness instead. Strength 6, I5 units that will have a solid chance of doing good damage. Though doubtful whether including Rangar in space wolves is a wise idea, as Blood Angels tend to do that sort of thing better. We are not as mobile in that area as them beyond land raiders and cav.

[Tsavong Lah]

Ragnar + wolves

Ulrik

Wolfpriest

10 Greyhunters

Wolfguard

 

In Crusader might cost 2x or 3x more but are so much deadlier.

 

I'm not sure all that is necessary. 10 Grey Hunters (2x Melta, Wolf Standard, PW, and maybe MotW) with a PF/Combimelta Wolf Guard and Ragnar in a Land Raider Redeemer seems killy enough to annihilate just about anything within two assault phases.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Blood Claws can be an excellent death star unit for chopping up orks and other more horde close combat armies like nids. With 4 attacks at S 4 each, I can live with a 4+ to hit.

[HERO]

Ragnar, 7x WGT w/ cbM is pretty intense.

[slmellon]

why would you lose an attack by replacing your bp with a meltagun? is it considered 2 handed? if not they still get +1 for the chainsword

[HERO]

WGT is Wolf Guard Terminator.

[Spacefrisian]

WGT is Wolf Guard Terminator.

 

I use WG TDA for that. Might be longer but still.

[marine77]

@slmellon. Meltaguns do not have the rule that states you get an additional attack if you bear one, even if combined with a chainsword. Pistols do. If the rule isn't there, they don't give an additional attack.

 

I fully intend to write more articles on this topic. The Blood Claw/Ragnar unit is simply one "deathstar" that I have seen used. Help me out. What are some other Space Wolf specific Deathstars? I have seen the Wolf Guard one. What about your ideas on the Thunderwolf Deathstar (Wolfstar)? I will take what you give me and write about those units next. Thanks.

[Lord Doyok]

Marine77 - You take meltagun replacing the bolter, which mean you still have the bolt pistol and CCW with you and the +1 attack in CC.

[Valerian]

I definately agree that blood claws is points wasted though. You lose half the reason you would take those guys anyways, superious number of attacks. If theres a possiblity of making it worse, it's points being wasted.

 

What do you mean by this? What "possibility of making it worse"? Also, what is "superious" supposed to mean?

 

Rengar as a deathstar in my honest opinon is flawed. I would much rather have him ferried up in a Rhino with several packs of Thunder Wolf and use him to enhance their effectiveness instead. Strength 6, I5 units that will have a solid chance of doing good damage. Though doubtful whether including Rengar in space wolves is a wise idea, as Blood Angels tend to do that sort of thing better. We are not as mobile in that area as them beyond land raiders and cav.

 

Why do you always call him Rengar, and never Ragnar?

 

 

Valerian

[Wysten]

I definately agree that blood claws is points wasted though. You lose half the reason you would take those guys anyways, superious number of attacks. If theres a possiblity of making it worse, it's points being wasted.

 

What do you mean by this? What "possibility of making it worse"? Also, what is "superious" supposed to mean?

 

Rengar as a deathstar in my honest opinon is flawed. I would much rather have him ferried up in a Rhino with several packs of Thunder Wolf and use him to enhance their effectiveness instead. Strength 6, I5 units that will have a solid chance of doing good damage. Though doubtful whether including Rengar in space wolves is a wise idea, as Blood Angels tend to do that sort of thing better. We are not as mobile in that area as them beyond land raiders and cav.

 

Why do you always call him Rengar, and never Ragnar?

 

 

Valerian

Because they lose their extra attacks if he rolls a 1. Lower weapon skill means they simply can't afford to have the same number of attacks as grey hunters, which means they do less then their weight in Hunters. And that was a typo I did not notice.

 

 

As for that, he's still a pup. He does not deserve a correct spelling! Or it's another typo. One of the two.

[Valerian]

I definately agree that blood claws is points wasted though. You lose half the reason you would take those guys anyways, superious number of attacks. If theres a possiblity of making it worse, it's points being wasted.

 

What do you mean by this? What "possibility of making it worse"? Also, what is "superious" supposed to mean?

 

Rengar as a deathstar in my honest opinon is flawed. I would much rather have him ferried up in a Rhino with several packs of Thunder Wolf and use him to enhance their effectiveness instead. Strength 6, I5 units that will have a solid chance of doing good damage. Though doubtful whether including Rengar in space wolves is a wise idea, as Blood Angels tend to do that sort of thing better. We are not as mobile in that area as them beyond land raiders and cav.

 

Why do you always call him Rengar, and never Ragnar?

 

 

Valerian

Because they lose their extra attacks if he rolls a 1. Lower weapon skill means they simply can't afford to have the same number of attacks as grey hunters, which means they do less then their weight in Hunters. And that was a typo I did not notice.

 

 

As for that, he's still a pup. He does not deserve a correct spelling! Or it's another typo. One of the two.

 

Ah. Wysten, Blood Claws don't lose attacks if Ragnar rolls a 1; check the FAQ, they still get +2 minimum, and +3 if Ragnar rolls a 3 on his D3. Also, their lower WS doesn't usually affect how many hits they make in CC (still need a 4+ To Hit against most foes), it just means they get hit a little easier in return.

 

V

[Wysten]

Ohhh, I throught they actually did lose attacks. My bad on that note. That makes them a fair bit better with him then I first throught, considering how much of a boost you get from an extra I5 is a massive difference. Just a bit weary of the points and the Raider I guess.

[BrotherCaptainJames]

I thought Ragnar's d3 extra attacks stacked with berserk charge from the blood claws...

[nurglez]

as i said above, to me grey hunters are just better then blood claws.ws4 means against ws3 or less, you hit on 3's, and you get hit back on 4+ unless the enemy has ws5, considering the majority of things in most armies are ws3-4, i consider this a good thing.

 

also grey hunters can take 2 special weapons that hit more often, and dont lose an attack in combat by having one, mark of the wulfen and a wolf standard are great, as a wolf standard will let you re roll the d3 extra attacks ragnar gives the squad.

 

although, for a proper deathstar unit, lets go for 10 wolfguard, armed with a selection of frostblades/wolf claws/fist/mark of the wulfen/storm shields, with ragnar and a wolfpriest, in a redeemer. while a huge load of points, this should kill most things dead ;)

 

you could even run 9wg and have arjac with them for an even more costly death star :D

[Valerian]

I thought Ragnar's d3 extra attacks stacked with berserk charge from the blood claws...

 

You thought wrong.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

I have a Ragnar unit that I use in big games. I know it's pricey but I built the squad back in 3rd edition when we played huge 1-1 games and I'm not changing it, it's built and painted and staying that way, lol. It always had a nasty rep amongst my buddies and when they changed the SS rules it got even better. This is the current set-up since the Crusader came out.

Ragnar w/2 Wolves

Wolf Priest (RA, WTN, PP)

Ulrik

Wolf Lord (Bear Saga, RA, PP, FB, WTN, BoR)

8 Wolf Guard (8 SS, 6 FB, 2 PF)

Land Raider Crusader