got an idea... need input

[carnosaur93]

hello there, iam still split of what to use for my dark mechanicus marines. CSM or just SM... for CSM ive tried to focus on PMs (heavy on bionics, have an apothecary to represent FNP) as troops, DP as a big robot HQ etc, etc...

 

but i got an idea, that might actually be more fluffy for the army, perhaps... my idea is to use SM instead. having the army build around the following:

 

lots of sternguards (should make the core of the army, even though elites)

scouts as troops (likely going with snipers and a telion for one squad, will likely be sort of skitarii)

Pedro as HQ (he seems pretty versitile, and will allow my sternguards to capture stuff)

heavy use of drop-pods (becouse... just becouse its fluffy for the army)

 

thats my main idea. now my question is, could this basic build actually work as the core of the army? or is it plain stupid? and if so, whats the good and bad things about it all?

 

when going to bulk it all out, iam thinking a MotF for the other HQ to allow dreads in heavy slots (sterns fill up the elites likely) for even more mechanical madness etc, etc (and its fluffy for mechy stuff i would say). and then ofcourse more of the core things...

 

and when once going APOC, iam pretty much gunna mesh together c:sm and c:csm. but ill think about that in time...

 

thanks in advance

[Hellios]

I wouldn't say it would be the most powerful army out there but on the otherhand I don't see why you can't make it work.

[carnosaur93]

hmm, yeah, iam not exactly looking for a power build, just something fluffy and fun to use... but offcourse if it sucked big time i wouldnt consider it, as soemthing thats bount to fail is never fun^^'

 

well, but nice enough if it doesnt sound that dumm... i guess thats how it is with c:sm... you can kinda do whatever and it will still work^^'

[Jackelope King]

Okay, in order to take best advantage of Pedro, you need to analyze just what he does to your army:

 

1. Sternguard are scoring. This is where everyone stops looking, for some reason, and frankly, it's among the least useful of his abilities. You only ever need to score on a single objective, so long as you can contest others. Still nice to have additional scoring threats, sure, but they're still taking up elites slots. This ability is just gravy.

2. Combat Tactics swapped out for Stubborn. Ugh. I love Combat Tactics, but for non-biker armies, I can stomach losing it. Now let's look a little deeper at Stubborn. It keeps your models tied up in close combat when, by all rights, they should break. If you're taking shooty models, isn't this bad? By design, yes. To make it work, we need to take advantage of multiple small units, and basically turn every assault into a giant, model-chewing tarpit. Even 5-man squads will sit there, make a bunch of armor saves, and slap the other guy a few times. Most importantly, they'll hold the other guy's models up, which brings us to Pedro's next ability...

3. Living Chapter Banner. Hello +1A. That's not too shabby. But we need someone to capitalize on this, and to capitalize on all of the enemy's melee presence being tied up in protracted combats with stubborn-as-heck Sternguard who just won't break. Ideal units for this need to deliver a big punch. Mobility is good, but less critical, since you'll have tied the enemy up pretty good.

4. An unwritten ability. At high points-value games (which is the only time Pedro really shines), Pedro's best friend is Lysander. They have the same chapter tactics, so Lysander's downside of making you Stubborn is already accounted for. Lysander catches railguns shots with his face, laughs, smashes a daemon prince with his giant hammer, grabs a quick lunch at this lovely little Italian bistro around the corner, then smashes some poor schmuck so hard that he feels it before it happened. A stupidly expensive character, but Pedro works best at high points-values anyway. Stick him in with a Combat Squad of Sternguard and watch the fun, or let him run around murderizing people with a squad of Assault Terminators.

 

To this end, Scouts are probably actually a bad idea. Poor durability, poor at holding midfield. This kind of army wants to create a giant cluster of carnage midfield, with the enemy trapped in endless melees with Sternguard, then getting clobbered by 20 Thunderhammer whacks when Terminators or the like charge near Pedro. Codex: Space Marine Tactical Squads in Rhinos with multi-meltas are strictly better at holding midfield than, well, anything else in the game.

[carnosaur93]

hmm... i see your points. but doesnt the rules say that you MAY exchange combat tactics for stubborn?.. also, the idea of the scouts is to have some mixed infantry rather than pure PM (becouse this chapter happen to have skitarii at thair disposal, then it would be logical to actually field them) but yeah, i agree the 1+ A tells the story that this guy is supossed to carry some assult units with him in HtH... hmm.

 

but long story short, what i wanna represent with the army is non PM infantry, more elite-ish marines, and big use of drop-pods...

hmm. perhaps there are some better ways to represent these traits in a SM armylist?.. i dont need a super powerfull army, just something fun that wont get hammered to pieces

 

 

also... as iam basicly starting from playing really small games as the army of me and my fellow gamers slowly grow, big point-games are not anywhere near at this point...

 

but would it maybe just be wiser to stick with my C:CSM list heavy on plague-marines in rhinos and a prince? (will be having defilers for long-range support as soon as i move up in points)

[Jackelope King]

hmm... i see your points. but doesnt the rules say that you MAY exchange combat tactics for stubborn?

Nope. Read page 90 of Codex: Space Marines under "Chapter Tactics".

[carnosaur93]

just read it, now... yeah, your right :S

[Ming]

Hmm... almost like trying to make an iron hands list-ish...

 

Going ultrafluffy:

 

MOTF

Librarian with the mandatory machine curse (autoglances), MOH to make him stronger, termie, shield

 

Techmarine with full load of servitors

X Terminators

1 VenDreads with pod

 

2 full tac squads, transports, models heavy on bionics, rhinos-equivalent transports must have extra armor. MG/MM or FL/MM

 

X Speeders, HF/MM or MM/HB

 

2 dreads

Vindicator or thunderfire

[carnosaur93]

Hmm... almost like trying to make an iron hands list-ish...

 

ALLMOST ;)

 

hmm. but yeah quite fluffy i must say :P

 

i want elite-like marines, though... iam NOT true-scaling an intire army just to make them simple tacticals xD... not unless i make the tacticals be "newbies" allmost like trainees (after finishing initiation/being scout)... wait... thats it! scouts=skitarii's... tacticals=trainees... different vets=fully trained marines, it fits perfect with my background material :lol: (and in apoc i can allways replace them with plague marines for troops)

[ImperialReaper]

The weak spot of your army would be anything with a high toughness and armorsave in close combat.

 

Du to the fact that you have pedro and most of your units are veterans and therefore come with 2 attacks anyway you are not to bad in close combat. But since you dont have any powerweapons and nothing with more than strength 4 cracking things like plague marines could be rather difficult. With sterguards the problem is that you also dont want to trade the boltguns against powerfists or powerweapons since you will give up your special ammunition this way.

 

You could of cause try to shoot anything with high toughness and high armor before it reaches you. BUT thinking that 20 shots of hellfire ammunition wounding on 2s should result in only 2 livepoints lost (on a 2+ armor) or 4 (on a 3+ armor) this could proof difficult..

[carnosaur93]

well... i DO plan to have other things... this was just to be the core of the army... i will likely take powerfists on the sterns (and pedro got a fist aswell), and missle-launcher on the scouts... also, it seems what ill be going the most up against is orks. so fear of PM's and general power armor should not matter much. hellfire round should be able to literally shred through ork mobs like paper. i mean, rapid-fire... 4BS wound on 2+... and enough AP to ignore the orks armor