Vulkan

[Zynk Kaladin]

Hey guys. I was reading my codex randomly and fell upon the entry for Vulkan He'stan. I've been using a relic blade/storm shield captain lately, but after seeing vulkan is pretty much that and more I'd like to see how he synergises (is this even a word?) with my army. I originally wanted to stay away from special characters, but his rules really appealed to me. Obviously flamers, heavy flamers, melta, and thunderhammers are a good idea but I was wondering what your experiences were like running him with your army. I just want to be aware of his potential before I run him, just to get a feel of what he and his army can and can't do.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

well id personaly play terminators with t hammers for anti arour & generic squads pacing flamers with meltas, also razor backs with heavy flamers or assault cannons for supresion, also the land raider redemmer is underrated for urban warefare so id try that aswell you never know you may love it :yes:

 

salamanders are a naturaly slow army so i wouldnt pick assault squads

 

treat vulkan the same as marenus, fit him with a make shift honour guard squad with relic blades and use him to toast enemy weak spots while the rest fo your flamer heavy forces toast the cover points and make a slow sweeping advance

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Vulkan is quite popular with good reason!

 

He improves army wide all flamers (covering anti infantry nicely) and melta (improving anti tank nicely too) and improving thunderhammers (which gives him an ideal retinue of hammernators)

 

All of this is very Salamanders in fluff, but he is very easily transferable as he works well as a CC captain and improving an army overall is no bad thing!

So putting him into an army is pretty easy, tuck him in a rock hard CC unit such as Hammernators (makes sense since they make use of what he improves) in a land raider (very pricey yes) and then the rest of your army should be flamers and meltas as often as possible, with maybe a squad to handle the slack of in between. Of course Vulkan will work nicely in a squad of any kind not just hammernators, so he can happily work with vanguard to go in rhinos or razorbacks

 

Generally though you'll notice he doesnt gain all of the benefits of a captain and as such will miss out on command squads and will also lose combat tactics (Alas no FNP 4 flamer command squads).

 

 

So for his gear you'd probably pay about 170 points or so and for a few more you get to improve some of the key weapons in your army, not a bad trade off

 

 

Personally though i dislike him, hes very generic and transferable and crops up often. I'd prefer something different and less....impressive i suppose! He is a very good choice overall though!

[Brother Xeones]

Have you done any searches on this forum for him?

Like THIS?

I admit we haven't seen a thread on him for a while, but it's not like they haven't been done.

Vulcan is probably the best special character in the codex. He's cheaper than an equivalent vanilla captain if you add up all his wargear, PLUS he gets a heavy flamer, PLUS he makes a lot of good weapons even better. In short he's 'da bom. But he's also overused and many people have gotten tired of playing against Vulcan lists (though most of the power gamers have moved on to Space Wolves and Blood Angles so maybe the fact that he's no longer the flavor of the month will help out.)

 

Most everyone ran/runs him with a unit a TH/SS termies in a Landraider and spams meltas and flamers as much as possible. The reason they do this is that it DOES work.

[DarkGuard]

Vulkan is an incredibly powerful and well-used SC, and with good reason too. I used to use him about a year ago or so, and used him with two Tactical Squads with flamers/meltaguns and multi-meltas in Rhinos, with one Tactical Squad with flamer PC sitting back. Vulkan himself went around with a Sternguard squad with 2 heavy flamers in a Razorback, and seriously, this unit put out so much firepower and hurt. 3 twin-linked heavy flamers backed up by some special ammo is nothing to be sneered at, and with at least 2 attacks each, and power fist and Vulkan they weren't any slouches in close combat.

 

However, the important thing to remember when building a Vulkan army is that everything he boosts is short range, and so you need a way to get your troops in range, while also trying to put a sensible amount of points into a couple of long-ranged firebases so your opponent can't just keep you at reach. Also, remember that a lot of people have either faced or played a Vulkan army at some point, and so for all the power it possesses it is also unpredictable.

 

Good luck!

[thade]

Vulkan is *very* good, especially for his points. He not only is one of the best close combat marines in the codex (Relic Blade, 2+/3++, Heavy Flamer, statline) but he also bolsters your army with Twin-linked Melta weaponry. Considering that 5th Ed is all about vehicles, and melta guns are far and away the best way to kill vehicles (esp. heavy ones), this is amazing. He also twin-links every flamer in your army, and makes all Thunder Hammers in the army master-crafted. And - unlike many other things that you ditch Combat Tactics for - his effect does NOT go away when he dies/leaves the table. For his cost, he is ridiculously amazing.

 

Some would say too amazing. Some people will even get angry at you if you field special characters in general, especially Vulkan. Best to ask around with the people you play with to see what their feelings are on it.

[Jackelope King]

Most of the analysis here is pretty decent. Let's go step-by-step:

1. Vulkan is an Artificer Armor + Relic Blade + Storm Shield captain. Let's call his heavy flamer gauntlet similar in price to a Sternguard Heavy Flamer. All told, this means you're paying about 20 points for a whole lot of rerolls.
   
2. Specifically, Vulkan is going to improve the productivity of Flamers, Heavy Flamers, Meltaguns, Multi-Meltas, and Thunder Hammers. To take most advantage of Vulkan, we'll need all of these things in relatively large numbers.
   
3. Vulkan makes our more common Multi-Melta Rhino Tactical Squads better. Their Multi-Meltas are more likely to hit. This is a good thing. We can continue to dominate midfield with Vulkan.
   
4. Vulkan also makes the dirt-cheap HF/MM Landspeeder configuration more effective at both roles. We want these. Lots of these.
   
5. However, Vulkan stops being cheap when you look at the Elites and Heavy Support slots. Yes, we want multiple squads of TH/SS Terminators. The ideal approach will be 1x 10-man squad, with a Dedicated Transport Land Raider and a Heavy Support Land Raider. That's a lot of points, and Vulkan can ride with one squad, but man is it killy. It'll also edge out other guys' TH/SS Terminators with those rerolls to hit.
   
6. Vulkan himself is a bargain, but he also eats up a lot of points. We're probably not going to be able to afford a second HQ, which means Librarians won't be around until 2000-2500 points with a Vulkan list. So our offense got ramped up, but our defense is weaker than a standard Mech list.
   
7. Our other sacrifice will wind up being our Firebase. In order to support that which Vulkan already improves, we're probably giving up at least 1 of Elites, and we're likely to be short on Heavy Support too. Our Melta will probably be able to make up for it, but it doesn't offer the same turn-1 options as a strong firebase does. Thus we're more committed to dealing our damage on turns 2+ with our close-ranged elements, which we'll have to commit to supporting.
   
8. We lose Combat Tactics. It's not as good on a Mech army as it is on a Biker army, but it's still a really nice ability, basically a dime-store Hit and Run. Regardless, it means we're more likely to be caught in melees that we might not want to be, so we need a strong assault presence around to bail out our more vulnerable squads, or a close-range presence so terrifyingly killy that the other guy never gets a chance to hit out vulnerable squads (like tacticals).
   
9. Finally, our model count is likely to be lower than a bog-standard Mechanized Marines army, doubly-so if we went on the table with a Double TH/SS Squad army (the alternative in my mind being a triple Sternguard Vulkan list with double heavy flamer squads). Vulkan basically costs twice what our go-to Librarian costs, and he really ramps up the cost of our Elites, demanding some pricey (if powerful and good) units to get the best out of him. He also will usually present himself with a weaker firebase than a standard Mechanized Marine army, also partially because of that low model-count. We need to compensate for this with a stronger mid- and close-field presence than normal.
   

Vulkan is definitely good, and you can build a strong army around him. But he isn't the end-all-be-all. You'll need to focus your list on Vulkan's strengths and divorce yourself from what you might be used to with a firebase-supported Mechanized army. All told, Vulkan is pretty well-designed to give you a fairly different feel for your Marine army.

[gettothegone]

Vulkan makes melta bikes, and melta assault bikes go from dangerous to extreme when you're playing against Mech.

[Brother Xeones]

I gotta disagree with some of your assertions here Jackalope King.

However, Vulkan stops being cheap when you look at the Elites and Heavy Support slots.

No one is forcing a person to take multiple squads of assault terminators in multiple land raiders. In fact, I'd say this is rarely a good way to go. You've still got some really great (and substantially cheaper) options for elites than you make out. For instance, the simple Multi-melta, Heavy Flamer dreadnought is an excellent "cheap" unit in a vulcan list --as are melta/HF or 2x HF Ironclads or sternguard with combi-meltas or flamers

 

Dakka Preds or Combi-Preds are not bad for a fire base unit and are not going to break the bank. All I'm saying is if you take multiple hammer squads in Landraiders, then yes, of course you are going to be limiting yourself and your other options. But melta and flamer weapons are something that marines get quite cheaply compared to other options and they come on just about any platform imaginable so it's definitely possible to go for multiple, cheap units instead of cashing in on killer deathstars.

[thade]

If you consider just how much point-value is added to each of those dirt-cheap baseline MM Dreads when their MMs become TL, Vulkan's real value becomes apparent. It's not just them. Every melta from the ones you put on speeders, to the combis on your sergeants, to the extra melta on your LR goes up 10-15 points in value with Vulkan in the army. How that is not accounted into his cost is beyond me. Were his special rule something like:

 

- You may replace any melta-gun, flamer, or heavy-flamer with a twin-linked version of the same weapon at +N points

 

he'd be over-costed. I actually think reducing Vulkan's point cost and making his rule in such a form would make him a more balanced special character. As it stands he's kind of broken. But, broken in this case is table-legal. He's very powerful, make no mistake.

[Zynk Kaladin]

EDIT: I forgot to thank you guys for your input, so, thanks.

 

Here's a quick 1500 point list I came up with. I like they typhoons because they give me a decent long range transport busting capabilities, though ideally I would have liked 2 squads of two. Any thoughts?

 

HQ

+1 Vulcan

 

ELITES

+5 TH/SS Termies

 

TROOPS

+10 Tactical Squad (MM,F,PF,Combi-M, Rhino)

+10 Tactical Squad (MM,F,PF,Combi-M, Rhino)

+10 Tactical Squad (MM,F,Rhino)

 

FAST ATTACK

+1 Typhoon

+1 Typhoon

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

+1 Land Raider Redeemer

 

1495

 

I might try to make a sternguard list later, as well. I like the idea of two heavy flamers and some combi-meltas!

[thade]

This may come up (and has not been mentioned yet): Flamestorm cannons are not flamers or heavy flamers; they are not Twin-linked when Vulkan is on the table.

 

Still, they're great; I love them. Looks like a fun list.

[Jackelope King]

I gotta disagree with some of your assertions here Jackalope King.

However, Vulkan stops being cheap when you look at the Elites and Heavy Support slots.

No one is forcing a person to take multiple squads of assault terminators in multiple land raiders. In fact, I'd say this is rarely a good way to go. You've still got some really great (and substantially cheaper) options for elites than you make out. For instance, the simple Multi-melta, Heavy Flamer dreadnought is an excellent "cheap" unit in a vulcan list --as are melta/HF or 2x HF Ironclads or sternguard with combi-meltas or flamers

 

Dakka Preds or Combi-Preds are not bad for a fire base unit and are not going to break the bank. All I'm saying is if you take multiple hammer squads in Landraiders, then yes, of course you are going to be limiting yourself and your other options. But melta and flamer weapons are something that marines get quite cheaply compared to other options and they come on just about any platform imaginable so it's definitely possible to go for multiple, cheap units instead of cashing in on killer deathstars.

You either take multiple units of Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield Assault Terminators, or you roll with Sternguard. Both are, in my mind, quite acceptable. With Vulkan, I'd honestly prefer to have a bail-out squad of Terminators over more close-ranged shooty. If Vulkan came with a command squad, I'd consider that instead, but since he doesn't (a nice balancing point on Vulkan, btw), TH/SS Termies are the way to go.

 

Taking 1 Land Raider is painting a bullseye. Taking 1 of any super-unit is asking for trouble. I know. I haven't assembled my second biker command squad yet. They do okay, but having two around would be game-winning, while 1 is just a threat that the enemy will probably block.

[Mysticaria]

Haven't seen too many Typhoons in Vulcan lists. Mostly the MM/HF speeders are popular since they are cheaper and get way better with Vulcan's rule.

 

-Myst

[TyrionTheImp]

There's not much else to be said, but I sort of look at it this way:

 

Vulkan buffs thunder hammers, meltas, and flamers (both kinds of each). What units can use these? A lot, and most of them are considered viable options in competitive play. Hammernators? Buffed. MM/HF Speeders? Buffed. Sternguard? Buffed. Flamer/Multi-melta Midfield Tacticals? Buffed. Even Dreadnoughts are buffed, heck Assault Marines can be buffed (double awesome flamers? Heck yes!). Okay, you lose on the "fluffy" factor by taking speeders and assault marines, but if you're playing competitively, fluffy doesn't always matter. If you're playing friendly though don't expect to make a lot of friends using Vulkan.

[Captain Idaho]

One thing to bear in mind with Vulkan lists is if you concentrate on capitalising on what benefits he grants the army then you are deliberately surrendering the long range firepower duel to your opponent. You can only operate successfully at ranges of 24" and are at your most effective at ranges less than that.

 

This is a potential problem that you need to work your way around. You need speed and the ability to put your units in places they need to be to get the most out of their advantages. This means Rhinos and Drop Pods are essential tools in your army.

 

It is also worth noting that the Salamanders do have Assault Marines and Landspeeders, just not as many as normal Chapters. This is likely to change if GW ever released some new fluff on them. But they still have Jump Packs and Landspeeders.

 

Try self imposing a limit on the amount of Landspeeder squadrons you can take if you want to represent the fluff more closely. Take a squadron of 2 Landspeeder Typhoons to fill the range gap you have.

 

Also don't be afraid to take other weapons in the army. A couple Lascannons can support the Typhoons in granting you ranged shooting capacity. Not a massive departure of their background, as I doubt the Salamanders are that stubbornly opposed to other weapons.

[BearersOfSalvation]

Okay, you lose on the "fluffy" factor by taking speeders and assault marines, but if you're playing competitively, fluffy doesn't always matter. If you're playing friendly though don't expect to make a lot of friends using Vulkan.

 

The Salamanders fluff has never said that they don't have speeders and assault marines, just that they have less than other chapters. Their original 3E list in the Armageddon Codex includes assault marines and speeders. Personally, I don't think it's reasonable to try to be 'friendly' with people who try to turn fluff from 'make a cool theme for this army' to 'you have violated fluff by daring to take a unit the chapter has but doesn't use a whole lot of', it's the other guy making the game not friendly.

[thade]

Something people seem to forget with regards to fluff...you don't need to take Vulkan to have a fluffy Salamander's list. The list laid out above with a diy-captain instad of Vulkan, with all the models painted green, would still be a very fluffy Sallie's list.

[Validar]

Now this is a whole new discussion about fluff, anyway!

 

It is true that you can deffend pretty much everything in the fluff.

 

Yeah, the fluff states that chapter X only has like 2 vindicators left - this just so happends to be the fighting force including both!

Yeah, this chapter has a lot of X, but in this fighting force they just left it at home.

Yeah, this chapter normally goes by battlestyle X, but in this force they choose the opposite to adept to the battlefield.

 

And so it rages onwards.

 

It is true that Salamanders DO have assault marines and land speeders too! BUT if you want your force to reflect the story behind the army you have chosen, you have to pick what is considered "common" within your chapter and leave out anything considered "uncommon". The problem being that sometimes the fluff states that you gotta use sub-optimal choices (like leaving behind the HF/MM land speeder as a vulkan player).

 

Now, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to play the game - but do understand that when the fluff nazis (myself included) shout "unfluffy!" they actually mean "the choices you have made do not reflect the general background of the chapter you have chosen to play" and not "this chapter could in no possible way assemple a force such as yours" or "the story behind your army (IE: But it is a heavy seige force, that is why I have 3 land raiders!) is wrong!"

 

Land speeders with vulkan and the salamanders is an obvious example - it is an awesome C:SM unit that has just been made a lot better through vulkan, but does not reflect the general story behind the salamanders. Neither would scouts (they have less scouts than other chapters) or bikes (correct me if I'm wrong ;)) - but the land speeder is the question because it seems like an obvious compromise with the fluff to up the powerlevel of the army.

 

With all that in regard, I'll repeat that there is no "right" or "wrong" way to play the game. Happy gaming :ph34r:

[BearersOfSalvation]

It is true that Salamanders DO have assault marines and land speeders too! BUT if you want your force to reflect the story behind the army you have chosen, you have to pick what is considered "common" within your chapter and leave out anything considered "uncommon".

 

No you don't, you simply build a list that fits the story behind the army and you reflect the story behind the army. This 'you can't take anything that's at all uncommon in the army' idea has nothing to do with reflecting the story behind the army and everything to do with trying to condemn people's armies as being 'unfluffy' for either tactical advantage (tanking comp scores) or to make yourself feel better at their expense. A blood angels army drawn from their devastator company completely fits the fluff and would be something interesting to see on the table (unless the fluff on their organization has changed from 3E), but I've had one of the 'fluff'-fanatics tell me that it would be simply terrible to make.

 

The fluff should be used to help make interesting armies with a particular theme, not as a club to bash people who don't follow limits that you came up with in your own head.

[Jackelope King]

The fluff should be used to help make interesting armies with a particular theme, not as a club to bash people who don't follow limits that you came up with in your own head.

This.