LordSion Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Hello all. Im gona start a darkangel character for the deathwatch rp. Im wondering how much about the fallen would a darkangels veteram know? And how much would a librarian/apothecary/techmarine know? Thanks for any help Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
LardO'Blood Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 The DA learn the secrets of the fallen and stuff when they are admitted to the inner circle. Inquisitor chaplains, some librarians and everyone who has served in the Deathwing was once inner circle or is inner circle. I don't think techmarines are admitted so they probably don't know. As far as I know apothecaries are just guys who did some medical work and got a narthecium for the squad. Librarians are often used to weaken the psychic defenses of a member of the fallen so the inquisitor chaplains can get a confession. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2554307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 A veteran who is or did serve in the 1st Company knows about the Fallen and from the Codex we know that at least one Appthecary is there. Being old school I thought all Librarians knew the secret (probably because of the ability to read minds) so even a Lexicanium is in the know. Chaplains got changed with the codex a little to have just an Interrogator Chaplain be a part of the Inner Circle while the other Chaplains aren't (previous editions had all chaplains in the know but only those with talent became an Int Chap). Since Techmarines have loyalties to Mars only the DA equivalent of a Master of the Forge has any knowledge of the Fallen as only he has the solemn responsibility to provide the appropritate ruminations for anything mechanical in the areas of the Rock dealing with the Fallen. For Deathwatch purposes, I can see the anything but the Tech having knowledge of the Fallen. The reason for them having knowledge in a Xeno hunter squad makes for an interesting side topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2554341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Edgimus Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 don't think i've read anywhere that our techmarines are loyal to mars only, i'd assume that any brethren we send off would fist and foremost be loyal to the DA and the lion before learning the secrets of mars, and i don't think we can place any specifics on which types of marines would have knowledge of our secrets, it simply comes down to how well you want a story to run, there most likely will have been one of each type of marine in some point of our chapters history made privvy to the knowledge as required by the chapter. you just gotta make a convincing back story Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2554418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viray Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 don't think i've read anywhere that our techmarines are loyal to mars only, i'd assume that any brethren we send off would fist and foremost be loyal to the DA and the lion before learning the secrets of mars, and i don't think we can place any specifics on which types of marines would have knowledge of our secrets, it simply comes down to how well you want a story to run, there most likely will have been one of each type of marine in some point of our chapters history made privvy to the knowledge as required by the chapter. you just gotta make a convincing back story I think what Grand Master Belial meant was that only the Dark Angels Master of the Forge would know about the Fallen, not that Dark Angel Techmarines are only loyal to Mars. Also, there are some specifics on how much a Dark Angel Marine should know about the Fall in relation to how far he has advanced within the Chapter. Our current Codex and, as I remember it at least, previous fluff indicates that a Dark Angel only begins to discover the secrets of the Chapter when he is inducted into the Deathwing. During that time, the full extent of the Dark Angels' betryal is revealed to him bit by bit until, after a certain point, he is tested to see if he is worthy of entering the Inner Circle. If the Marine is inducted into the Inner Circle, he learns most of the truth about the Fall and his knowledge is second only to the Supreme Grandmaster. As you can see, if you want to stay within fluff, there are indeed guidelines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2554694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 The Deathwatch RPG books provides some answers on this issue. For instance, my Devastator Character (that is a total beast!) for this game has no knowledge of the fallen, but knows through history and indoctrination that he must defend chapter honour at all costs. Traditionally a regular battle brother has no knowledge of the Fallen yet his mind is prepared to receive that info at later points when they are deemed worthy.. a veteran may know of some but not the truth about Fallen... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2554804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cernunnos Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 If the Veteran has served a term in the Deathwing then he will have knowledge of the Fallen. I think DA can have non-Deathwing veterans (i.e. with no knowledge of the fallen). There is the question of what happens to an experienced and highly skilled battle brother who is not deemed to have the character for the Inner Circle. Rather than waste his skill using him as a squad leader or part of a company veteran squad would make sense. As for Techmarines, they are not part of the Inner Circle because their oaths to Mars are incompatible with those required by the Inner Circle (p.11 Codex Dark Angels 4th edition) whether that simply refers to the potential for split loyalties or something deeper can only be speculated at. There are no barriers to Apothecaries or Librarians ascending to Deathwing membership as far as I know and I think the fluff suggests that all Librarians are members of the Inner Circle. I would assume that passing the tests to see if they have the character to handle their psychic potential make them suitable for induction. I am not sure if it is categorically stated however. Newest fluff has normal Chaplains as being unaware of the Fallen whilst Interrogator Chaplains are members of the Inner Circle, I think in older fluff all Chaplains were members. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2556170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 According to 'Angels of Darkness', Apothecaries can definitely become members of the inner circle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2556178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trel Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Additionally, there are circles within the circles, so your average veteran/apothecary/librarian may have been given some of the secrets, but not all of the secrets. 1. Your character may know that there was a Chaos insurgency on Caliban that precipitated the planet's destruction. 2. Your character may know that members of the old Legion were part of this insurgency. 3. Your character may even know that some of these individuals are still at large, along with some of their respective case details. 4. Your character may not know that Sar Luther is still alive and imprisoned in the Rock. Otherwise you're now RP'ing Azrael. 5. Your character certainly can't know that at the height of the Heresy, the Lion "thought about it." You should probably realistically not go any further than part two. A Marine with third-tier knowledge probably has more important things to do that go bouncing around the galaxy bug-hunting with the Inquisition. Moreover, from a character-building perspective, a Marine who has the third-tier knowledge is a highly experienced and decorated veteran with multiple centuries of service. At this point, you've either got a game-breakingly powerful character, or your character's knowledge is getting meta-gamey. * * * The Techmarines' exclusion from the Inner Circle is due to the Mechanicum's feelings toward knowledge. The Mechanicum never erases anything, while the Dark Angels would very much like specific information completely erased from history once all the loose ends are tied up. Oaths made by Techmarines to the Mechanicum's ideals are in direct conflict with the Inner Circle's oaths. Unless the Inner Circle is interested in killing off some of its own members once the last Fallen is captured, made to repent, and killed, then Techmarines can't know this information. It's easiest this way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2558531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_esquire Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Liking your reasoning and fluff referencing tref! Particularly impressed with the reasoning why techmarines are not eligible for inner circle membership! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2558868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Edgimus Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 yep, gotta admit i'd missed the passage in the codex, after reading it i'm a bit disappointed, i would have liked there to be an element of subterfuge with the techmarines Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2558953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Neo Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 apothecaries can be members of the inner circle. in the novel angels of darkness, Nestor, the squad apothecary does a much better job of hiding this fact than the squadron Interrogator Chaplain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2608344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Uriah Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 My Tactical Marine character, whose past event was 'preserved the secrets of the Chapter,' has an inkling about something, based upon a cover-up he was once part of, but he doesn't know what exactly it is. In an encounter with a Delerium Trellis on Baraban, he snapped off a bolter shot at a black-armoured Astartes that caused him to feel shame, killing it, but it was conjured from somewhere in his unconscious mind, along with a series of events leading up to that point. All the encounter with the imaginary Fallen Dark Angel did, besides causing him to expend a round of bolter ammunition, was make him temporarily mad and paranoid without understanding why. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2608438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acaeleus4 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Something I've had a hard time understanding is exactly how much the ravenwing know about the fallen. Their entire job for the most part is hunting them but it's unclear how much they know Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2608456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Uriah Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Something I've had a hard time understanding is exactly how much the ravenwing know about the fallen. Their entire job for the most part is hunting them but it's unclear how much they know I always understood that the Ravenwing know about the Fallen, insofar as they know them as targets, though they are relatively ignorant as to what the Fallen are, precisely, or why they hunt them. The Inner Circle picks and chooses what it feeds to the Ravenwing, so while they are zealously driven to hunt them down (hence Fearless) and provide quick location marking for incoming Deathwing assaults, they are not 'in on the secret.' They don't know why they hunt them, only that they must. Just my interpretation, of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/214541-how-much-knowledge/#findComment-2608504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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