space wolf beginner questions

[Glendor]

I have several questions about building a space wolf list, and hope they are easy to answer.

 

Is it worth getting a razorback for long fangs as they cant shoot from inside it anyways?

 

Why do you put only one storm shield in a unit of thunder wolf cavalry?

 

Is it better to put a power fist in a grey hunters squad or should i just use a power weapon?

 

Thanks

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

1. I don't recommend it, since you won't be moving alot

2. I don't use Thunderwolf Cav

3. If you aren't going to attach a wolf guard with an AT weapon, go with the power fist. Otherwise, I'd say power weapon.

[CainTheHunter]

1. I don't recommend it, since you won't be moving alot

2. I don't use Thunderwolf Cav

3. If you aren't going to attach a wolf guard with an AT weapon, go with the power fist. Otherwise, I'd say power weapon.

 

 

I agree with Chapter Master Ignis Domus on third point (PF are for wolf guard pack leaders), but disagree with the first. In DoW scenario You can roll them in with Razorback and deploy as needed instead of foot-slogging to some decent place with cover. Or otherwise, start the game with Long Fangs deployed on the table, put a Lone Wolf next to them - just in case - so he can provide some support in CC, then hop the Lone Wolf in the Razor and taxi him away towards his own saga and glory!

 

As concerns storm shield and TWC, I don't play them either, but the thing is with all storm shields they become very expensive points-wise.

[Glendor]

Is it worth the 30 pts though for one storm shield?

[CainTheHunter]

Is it worth the 30 pts though for one storm shield?

 

 

Absolutely!

[Thunderhawk3015]

For a 3+ invul on a T5 calvary mode with rending(assuming no special weapon) S5 and 2 wounds it is. Makes one that much harder to kill, throw it into a group, and its going to be hilarity. That and nothing short of S10 can insta kill on a failed armor save(aside from some special weapons like force swords)

 

Razorbacks for Long Fangs is a great way for some extra firepower on the table. Once your Long Fangs are in their final fire point the razorback can be used to provide extra fire on alternative targets and can carry squads that have suffered casualties to their next point.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I have several questions about building a space wolf list, and hope they are easy to answer.

 

Is it worth getting a razorback for long fangs as they cant shoot from inside it anyways?

 

Why do you put only one storm shield in a unit of thunder wolf cavalry?

 

Is it better to put a power fist in a grey hunters squad or should i just use a power weapon?

 

Thanks

 

1] It can be. Just like any other unit you take in your all-comers list, sometimes your foe, your dice or the terrain will give a unit a bad game. The more AV you run, the tougher each individual piece of AV is ~ you bring too many targets for your foe to deal with quickly :)

If you want to keep it close to the Fangs, a tlLC or a lasplas is the best choice for taking care of MEq and AV at range.

You can use the Razor to shield your Fangs from incoming fire from a particular enemy unit. Tank shock enemy units that get close [remember to run over the guy with the Mg or PF!]

You can give them a Razor or Rhino and have it pick up another unit, say Lonewolf + Fenwolves and take them into the fray.

 

2] You can put in more SS if you like, but you have to consider this: how many ap3 shots are the unit going to get hit with? Maybe 2 will be enough for a 5 man unit.

Your SS just have to save one ap3 attack and it has paid for itself, anymore than that and you are getting more and more value from it ;)

 

3] Power fists are a tricky one. 10 men and you get cheap SW. Sweet. But for a PF, you pay a lot for a 1a guy. If you are running a smaller pack, say even a 9 strong one, you can stick a Rune priest [or whatever] in with the pack. By then you might as well trade the Grey+PF for a Wolfguard+PF+combigun.

 

He gives you better Ld for counter-attack rolls [say you haven't got an IC in the squad]

2a with the PF

A combi-whatever shot. A one off melta or flame can be very useful, certainly better than not having it ;)

 

All for just 3 points more!

 

So I'd either go 10 Greys, 2 SW and no PF or 9 Greys, 1 SW, Wolfguard+PF+combigun

 

I think MotW is better than a Power weapon.

Your Grey has 2 attacks and 3 assaulting.

1.5 hit. 0.75 wound and kill.

The Wulfen gets d6+2 on the assault. Lets say 5.5 :D

2.75 hit. 1.375 wound - 0.46 rends and 0.92 normal, and 0.3 beats their armour. That ends up being 0.76 when combined with the rending, and is just the same as what the power weapon puts out.

 

What MotW gives you is the same ability against MEq and improved ability against Orks or Guard.

 

When you give your pack a Wolf standard, you are improving your attacks number, your rolls to hit, your rolls to rend and then your own saving thow.

 

Wolf standard and MotW for every one!!

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Thorough as always Brother Wilhelm. Well said.

 

1) Sure, as another firing unit. Refer to Brother Wilhelm's post for more.

2) It gets expensive and is more economical to only use one or two in most occasions. Refer to Brother Wilhelm's post for more.

3) Power weapon or MoTW. I tend to not use either as upgrades unless I have some spare change. I like to place more units on the board than use those upgrades. Refer to Brother Wilhelm's post for more info.

[Ranwulf]

1. Only if you want another support, and in case you need another protection for them.

2. What? People usually get EVERY Thunderwolf with a Storm Shield. At least, if you use one unit of them, if more, that depends, because you can get more TWC without them.

 

However, I rather use with ALL of them. Makes them less vulnerable to Terminators and IG lists.

 

3. I'd rather grab a Powerfist. You have more chances of hurting a enemy, destroying mechanized forces. At least in a normal Grey Hunter squad. It also depends on WHAT you are doing with them. If they are Tank Hunting, go PF, Infantry Hunt? Go Power Weapon.

 

Ran

[Br0ther Rafen]

I'm not a long time SW player, (only starting from last week :o) but when it comes to specialist units such as TWC and Vanquard(which i have more experiance in), SS's are useless if every guy has one. The porper way to do things is to have, say, 1-3 guys with a SS depending on size of the squad, and then have the same number of upgraded guys. The rest are meatshields, or "ablative wounds".

My Vanguard, for example, have a Relic Blade, PW, and 2 SS's in an 8 man squad. With this setup, you can play the wound allocation game and assign AP3-1 weapons to the SS's, while everything else is put on to the meatshields so the upgrades don't stay damaged.

The same "system"(which was designed by Thade, a very helpful member of the B&C) can be applied to TWC as well, except you might want have less special's and SS's so as to maximise the squad's meatshieds.

But you don't have to play like this. If you want, you can have 10 TWC with TH/SS's. It would cost like a million points, but in the name of fun, it's worth it.;)

[Glendor]

Overall i was wondering whether the 30 points from one was worth it. Though if you guys can give me some more superb advice, how do you not have the whole unit killed by a vindicator?

[Baluc]

Since this thread seems to have run its course, I have a question.

 

So I already have 30 Grey hunters (9+WG in rhino) trying to decide if I want a forth 10 man unit or two heavy bolter, multimelta Speeders and a Heavy Bolter Razorback for my Long fang unit.

[Tsavong Lah]

Unless you're playing 2000+ points, three full units of GH should be just fine.

[the jeske]

SS's are useless if every guy has one.

ever played against ork biker nobs ? do you know what mixed wound allocation is ?

[slmellon]

1. Remember, just because you buy a unit a transport, doesnt mean they have to use it. I like to deploy my fangs in cover and place the razor in another spot. People drop empty pods, so why not?

3. I take a fist and a WG w/ fist and combi in my squads 5 fist attacks on the charge helps, especially against MCs like Wraithlords, because i had to learn the hard way against three of them!!!

 

List builds really depend on what you are playing against, at least at first IMO, until we learn what works best against everything, thats what playtesting is for

[Gerwulf]

Most of your questions have been answered above already, but I will add my personal in game experience:

 

1) I run my long fangs in a razorback 9 out of 10 times and it's absolutely worth it. Just yesterday we rolled Dawn of War yet again (seems to crop up way more often than it should by chance) and the razorback allowed my Long Fangs to get into position and ready to shoot in the fist turn. 12" move, disembarking 2" and then run. And even if they already start on the battlefield, the razorback gives me a little bit more fire support and another target for the enemy to shoot at. I usually use either a TL-LC or TL-HB... and once in a while a TL-AssCan.

 

2) I run 4 TWC with BP/CCW, BP/SS, BP/SS/MB and BP/TH and it's worth it. With the extra SS they are an even tougher unit to kill. I usually add an IC on TWC with wolf claw and SS to the mix to make it even tougher.

For me, the TWC don't do that much damage in close combat, but they soak up a massive amount of fire and just wont die. Especially with wound allocation shenenigans.

 

3) I think in the end it comes down to personal taste. I never ever give my GH a powerfist. My standard squad is a squad of 10, with 2 SW, a powerweapon and a wolfstandard in a rhino. If I add an independant character to them, I sometimes add a WG with PF and a combiweapon of the same type as the squad already has. Sometimes if I feel like playing something different I add a WG to each of my squad. They acutally perform really well, but I usually prefer having more than one shot with my SW and the lower cost.

I don't like MotW very much fluffwise as it is presented in the current codex. So I'm not using it.

[Glendor]

Can anyone answer the vindicator problem?

[Tsavong Lah]

12" move, disembarking 2" and then run.

 

Wait, you can do that? I was under the impression that moving any farther than 6" disallowed disembarkation...

[Thunderhawk3015]

The Vindicator problem can really only be addressed by having storm shields in there. Otherwise a wound = a dead thunderwolf since more than one will be getting hit by it usually.

[WG Vrox]

Can anyone answer the vindicator problem?

 

Easy, just stay the hell away from it ;). Vindicator type units need to be shot and dealt with long before you commit units to your front lines. Failing that, prey it deviates off your units and onto his.

 

Vrox.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Can anyone answer the vindicator problem?

 

You have the best Devs in the game :lol:

 

A regular Vindi has a bubble of 30"

If he sets up first, deploy your TWC >30" away from it.

If he sets up after you and your TWC are within 30", then use your Fangs. Even if you only stun/shake the thing, you'll be safe.

 

12" move, disembarking 2" and then run.

 

Wait, you can do that? I was under the impression that moving any farther than 6" disallowed disembarkation...

 

pg 67.

 

It never says you cannot move >6" and disembark. It just says disembarking if the transport has moved or has not moved. Move 12" Disembark Rapid Fire is a good thing.

 

pg 70 says FAST transports cannot disembark passengers if they have or want to move FLAT OUT ~ which is >12"