SW and LGS

[Grimtooth]

So I am getting the impression that people at my LGS are not wanting to play my SW.

 

When I came back into 40k it was 5th edition and was before the new SW codex. The transition was a hard one for my 3rd edition Wolves. My friendly game and tournament showings were dismal. So I made some changes and started coming back to the winning side. Lo and behold the 5th edition codex hit shelves and back to the drawing board and theoryhammer.

 

Now currently in my LGS:

 

I beat the undefeated league champion, twice. He hasn't wanted a single game since and is happy to keep beating his league opponents with his Veteran/Vendetta Alpha Strike Spam list.

 

Against my good friend's Nid list, drew once, won 3x. He hungers to keep playing me because he is cool as hell. Nids can get tiring though.

 

Against a substandard Vanilla Marine player, I am 4 wins, 0 losses. I don't even want to play this guy anymore because it is just a steamroll all the time.

 

Drew against a top Eldar player that has since focused on his Fantasy and trying to get me into Fantasy. Good friend of mine so not a bad thing.

 

Decent Daemons/IG player wont play me as he likes to only play people he knows he will beat.

 

One trick pony Eldar player that wont play me because I told him how I would counter his Fire Draagon Alpha Strike list.

 

Younger Ork player that likes his winning Battle Wagon/HUGE Boyz Mobz list record and once he heard I beat the league champ twice, didn't want to play.

 

General run of the mill players that don't want to play SW as they say they are cheesy.

 

I could understand if I was just running a competition las/plas razorwolf spam list, but I dont. I have run my Thunderlord list, a Loganwing/Grey Hunter hybrid list, dual Rune Priest lists, 'Ard Boyz test lists, etc, etc. They have ranged from 1500 to 2500. Even a 200pt kill team offer with no takers. I actually even checked out another store just today with plans to probably hit I up next week so as to get a game with some I don't know.

 

Anyone else facing any animosity from your success or just being a SW player?

[Blarmb]

I could understand if I was just running a competition las/plas razorwolf spam list, but I dont. I have run my Thunderlord list, a Loganwing/Grey Hunter hybrid list, dual Rune Priest lists, 'Ard Boyz test lists, etc, etc. They have ranged from 1500 to 2500. Even a 200pt kill team offer with no takers. I actually even checked out another store just today with plans to probably hit I up next week so as to get a game with some I don't know.

 

Anyone else facing any animosity from your success or just being a SW player?

 

Thunderlords, Multi-Rune Priest, Even Loganwing are all fairly competitive SW builds. In fact the SW Dex is fairly forgiving and you can build a competitive list out of almost all the units in the codex (even our worst aren't strictly bad).

 

If the folks in you area are the "If it's competitive it's not fun" types, I can certainly see them getting miffed about any of those. If you really want to run a list that isn't a "Competition" list you'll have to do more than just avoid las/plas Razorbacks. YOu'll have to run something like a solo WGBL with bad gear choices, 5x Bloodclaws footslogging troops and a full compliment of TH/SS PA Biker Wolfguard. Who while effective are just so ungodly expensive and overpriced you won't be able to field an effective army.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Trade out some Greys for Claws

Fangs for Autolas pred or Rifleman dread or Typhoon speeder

Don't take LL or Jaws or even drop Rune priests.

TWC for Swiftclaws.

 

You are probably better than them and your army is as good as or better than them, so you have up to two advantages over them. If you want to play them, de-tune your list.

 

I have a few clubs that I go to. You never know who is next door if you are not adventurous....

 

I could understand if I was just running a competition las/plas razorwolf spam list, but I dont. I have run my Thunderlord list, a Loganwing/Grey Hunter hybrid list, dual Rune Priest lists, 'Ard Boyz test lists, etc, etc. They have ranged from 1500 to 2500. Even a 200pt kill team offer with no takers. I actually even checked out another store just today with plans to probably hit I up next week so as to get a game with some I don't know.

 

I thought MSU was not good, brother?

^_^

[Grimtooth]

I could understand if I was just running a competition las/plas razorwolf spam list, but I dont. I have run my Thunderlord list, a Loganwing/Grey Hunter hybrid list, dual Rune Priest lists, 'Ard Boyz test lists, etc, etc. They have ranged from 1500 to 2500. Even a 200pt kill team offer with no takers. I actually even checked out another store just today with plans to probably hit I up next week so as to get a game with some I don't know.

 

Anyone else facing any animosity from your success or just being a SW player?

 

Thunderlords, Multi-Rune Priest, Even Loganwing are all fairly competitive SW builds. In fact the SW Dex is fairly forgiving and you can build a competitive list out of almost all the units in the codex (even our worst aren't strictly bad).

 

If the folks in you area are the "If it's competitive it's not fun" types, I can certainly see them getting miffed about any of those. If you really want to run a list that isn't a "Competition" list you'll have to do more than just avoid las/plas Razorbacks. YOu'll have to run something like a solo WGBL with bad gear choices, 5x Bloodclaws footslogging troops and a full compliment of TH/SS PA Biker Wolfguard. Who while effective are just so ungodly expensive and overpriced you won't be able to field an effective army.

 

The problem is that everyone of those players I specifically pointed out are in every single tournament. They are not running fluff lists in the slightest. If anything at all, I am just matching their lists.

 

The Nid player will game me forever and the last two wins were nailbiters as he has refined his list and tactics. The last game was Winged HT with Nidstar unit, double Trygon Primes, Tervigon, mass gaunts, and a few other units. I scrambled to adjust my tactics and it was razor close with me winning in the last turn.

 

My fiance kinda mentioned the same thing, play to lose. But at this point what will that accomplish? If I brought a junk list to the table, they know I am playing to lose because they would be bringing their standard comp list. Seems kinda disrespectful to do something like that on purpose.

[Blarmb]

I could understand if I was just running a competition las/plas razorwolf spam list, but I dont. I have run my Thunderlord list, a Loganwing/Grey Hunter hybrid list, dual Rune Priest lists, 'Ard Boyz test lists, etc, etc. They have ranged from 1500 to 2500. Even a 200pt kill team offer with no takers. I actually even checked out another store just today with plans to probably hit I up next week so as to get a game with some I don't know.

 

Anyone else facing any animosity from your success or just being a SW player?

 

Thunderlords, Multi-Rune Priest, Even Loganwing are all fairly competitive SW builds. In fact the SW Dex is fairly forgiving and you can build a competitive list out of almost all the units in the codex (even our worst aren't strictly bad).

 

If the folks in you area are the "If it's competitive it's not fun" types, I can certainly see them getting miffed about any of those. If you really want to run a list that isn't a "Competition" list you'll have to do more than just avoid las/plas Razorbacks. YOu'll have to run something like a solo WGBL with bad gear choices, 5x Bloodclaws footslogging troops and a full compliment of TH/SS PA Biker Wolfguard. Who while effective are just so ungodly expensive and overpriced you won't be able to field an effective army.

 

The problem is that everyone of those players I specifically pointed out are in every single tournament. They are not running fluff lists in the slightest. If anything at all, I am just matching their lists.

 

The Nid player will game me forever and the last two wins were nailbiters as he has refined his list and tactics. The last game was Winged HT with Nidstar unit, double Trygon Primes, Tervigon, mass gaunts, and a few other units. I scrambled to adjust my tactics and it was razor close with me winning in the last turn.

 

My fiance kinda mentioned the same thing, play to lose. But at this point what will that accomplish? If I brought a junk list to the table, they know I am playing to lose because they would be bringing their standard comp list. Seems kinda disrespectful to do something like that on purpose.

 

*Shrug*

 

Play a new store?

Start a private club in your home an interview potential members to screen out poor fits?

 

You can't change other people, at least not most of the time. Your only solution is to find new people to play with or modify your own behavior such that you're a better fit for them. It might invovle playing a new army, or just plain losing. The chances you being able to say or do something that will allow things to continue as they are except having them stop seeing you as being in the wrong is pretty dang slim.

 

Like me being called beautiful slim, and if you'd ever seen a picture of me you'd know just how unlikely that is.

[Grimtooth]

I could understand if I was just running a competition las/plas razorwolf spam list, but I dont. I have run my Thunderlord list, a Loganwing/Grey Hunter hybrid list, dual Rune Priest lists, 'Ard Boyz test lists, etc, etc. They have ranged from 1500 to 2500. Even a 200pt kill team offer with no takers. I actually even checked out another store just today with plans to probably hit I up next week so as to get a game with some I don't know.

 

Anyone else facing any animosity from your success or just being a SW player?

 

Thunderlords, Multi-Rune Priest, Even Loganwing are all fairly competitive SW builds. In fact the SW Dex is fairly forgiving and you can build a competitive list out of almost all the units in the codex (even our worst aren't strictly bad).

 

If the folks in you area are the "If it's competitive it's not fun" types, I can certainly see them getting miffed about any of those. If you really want to run a list that isn't a "Competition" list you'll have to do more than just avoid las/plas Razorbacks. YOu'll have to run something like a solo WGBL with bad gear choices, 5x Bloodclaws footslogging troops and a full compliment of TH/SS PA Biker Wolfguard. Who while effective are just so ungodly expensive and overpriced you won't be able to field an effective army.

 

I ran Claws in Raiders once with a Wolf Priest and you would have think I killed the guys dog when I charged out of it.

 

Blarm makes a good point. The store is competitive, period. I could play to lose and everyone except the Vanilla SM would know it from the moment I deployed. Knowing that I am going to run into a comp list time after time, I could just keeping running my list and just lose in tacics. Naw, why waste my time on the weekends that I get to play placating peoples fragile egos.

 

Screw it, let them cry.

 

MSU does suck Wl, but the perception is that is an unfun list to play against all the time.

[Obscura]

Teach them about your list and how they can counteract your units, not only does it make you a better player it'll also placate their inability to adapt as they're finally learning how to play against SW.

 

Besides, you want a challenge and steam rolling people gets boring after awhile.

 

At least you've got a few friends who are always up for the challenge.

[Grimtooth]

Yea. the one Eldar player that is in Fantasy right now and the Nid player are pretty damn fun to play.

[Obscura]

There you go, besides it really does sound like the other players aren't up for a challenge or they don't want to see their one trick pony get shot down because it didn't go to plan.

 

Maybe if you can teach them how to play/adapt, they'll start to go outside of their safety net and actually play/have fun.

[Tsavong Lah]

You don't have to totally play to lose, just experiment a little bit. They might even be miffed that you have three or four lists that don't get tweaked all that much, all of which sound quite competitive. Maybe replace one or two of your assault-oriented GH units with Blood Claw units and stop there—making little experimental tweaks like that don't seem like you're intentionally gimping yourself but also might make people more willing to play.

[Khavos]

Anyone else facing any animosity from your success or just being a SW player?

 

The only ones getting animosity that I know of are the guys who switched to Space Wolves when it became obvious that they currently have the best codex out.

 

The guys who run fluffy/fun lists don't get any, though.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

That stinks you feel you are not getting love from your LGS gang.

 

A couple things come to mind,

 

find another place to play that won't be afraid to play you. It kinda stinks that there are not more players likes the Tyranid player at your LGS. If I were getting beat by a guy, I would want to keep playing him to figure out how to beat him. I wouldn't be a quitter and refuse to play you.

 

don't play to lose, that isn't fun. if you're going to win, find new ridiculous ways to win. Feature guys like Lukas.

 

lastly, help other players find your flaws and tell them how to exploit them. it will make them better gamers.

[Tsavong Lah]

don't play to lose, that isn't fun. if you're going to win, find new ridiculous ways to win. Feature guys like Lukas.

 

Yeah, exactly. QFT.

[LoneSniperSG]

Hm.. I suppose I should feel totally lucky. There's a couple people I refuse to play simply because of having already played them in a tournament and not wanting to deal with their bent ways and .. interesting.. rule interpretations.

 

However, myself and my fellow SW player have similar army lists, and unless the problem is boredom, no one ever opts out of playing one of us. If I challenge someone, they don't back down. We've got a pretty good group like that.

 

Winning all the time wouldn't keep me playing (although one win would be nice after six draw games..jeepers..) but rather all kinds of weird, off-the-wall stuff happens in my games and keeps me interested. For me it's not about the result so much as it's about what happens to get there.

[LPetersson]

Sounds like you should try to find players who enjoy the challenge...

 

You should tell them that there is no cheese...

[Bulweih]

Hail brother!

I totally agree with brother LPetersson, find new people instead of wasting even more time with those fragile egos in your LGS.

[Skalver]

Just play them in the tournaments then. If you start winning tournaments then they will have no option but to play you if they want to learn how to compete.

[CainTheHunter]

Are they kids?

[Mr. Danvers]

I can't believe how much crying goes on over lists sometimes. It just seems to be that if someone can't beat something, it immediately becomes 'cheese'. Now, I've played a lot of CCGs and I've seen my fair share of 'cheese' (try the WoW TCG for the total cheese factor :P), but 40k still relies heavily on dice and chance. A list might be cheesy on paper, but if they roll jank, it'll still fall flat on it's arse.

 

I guess I'm quite lucky with my LGS and new gaming club (well back home that is, I've not played at my uni one yet, but they seem to be nice guys) as no one either a) cracks out an ard boyz style list nor :tu: throws a hissy fit and refuses to play people based on what army they've brought. Isn't it a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face? You go to your LGS to get a game, then refuse to play anyone who plays army X, Y or Z. I see your from the states and I get the idea from podcasts etc that there can be a slightly different game mentality to us tea-drinkers across the pond, but I wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference. We still play the same hobby for the same reasons surely? I started a Psychology degree last year as I'm really interested in human behavior and cognition, but I swear I'll still never understand my fellow gamers!

 

Even with our new codex, I'm not entirely sure why people are getting so uppity about it. 3 PF BC squads from 3E were a lot worse in my opinion. I play a mate of mine who I used to work with and his wife regularly and it's still pretty even. I still find Necrons a right arse to kill when there's res orbs about and I've still not beaten a nid player yet. Granted, I don't throw out the new razorspam or TWC style armies, but considering we get a general bad press about our entire book I don't believe there's any grounds for it. There's plenty of stuff in 40k that can be obscene; Tervigons make troops for free! How's that not considered to be totally stupid when people whine about our GH packs. I swear the next time I hear a vanilla SM player whinge about our GH squads, I might just steal all his tactical squad missile launcher troops and say 'well you don't need these then and I need them for Long Fangs!'. Either that or club him over the head with my 2nd ed Bjorn in a sock... ;)

 

I pretty much decide who I'll play based upon what kind of person they are. Like I said about my uni game soc, they seem to be pretty decent and I've met two fellow Wolf players there. I'll always go have a chat and see what people are like before I play them; I'm not a fan of spending 2/3 hours in the company of an a-social *something expletive* just for a game (apart from tournaments of course). If I were you, I'd stick to playing the guys you get on with. Ok, it'll get repetitive, but it's better than listening to some sore loser whine about your book to mask their shortcomings as a general.

 

Either that or crack out the full razor-spam or TWC wound allocation stuff and go show them what 'cheese' is :P.

 

Just remember to lie and tell them that it's an all BC footslogger list with no long fangs or heavy support......

 

 

 

EDIT: I just twigged; swinging a Bjorn in a sock might lead to the sock ripping and the dread flying out into someones face. I wasn't sure if Bjorn had Furious Charge or not...can someone check?

[CainTheHunter]

EDIT: I just twigged; swinging a Bjorn in a sock might lead to the sock ripping and the dread flying out into someones face. I wasn't sure if Bjorn had Furious Charge or not...can someone check?

 

Course not (nothing except Ragnar and his pack can have it), but that does not mean, that he can't rip Your sock.

[hmk17]

meh, they'll be complaining about Dark Eldar with in a week or so. Sit back and take it easy until the next big things comes out.

[Stormshrug]

Shocked nobody has suggested this yet: try switching armies with them for a game or two. If you win with their army, clearly SW is beatable - if you lose, at least they know that you're a good sport, and not just looking to roll people with a cheesy army (which may be their perception, even if it isn't true, and it doesn't sound like it is). Either way, you both get to try something new, you get to play (without even changing your Army composition), and you don't have to throw matches, which really isn't good for anybody.

 

-Stormshrug

[Grey Mage]

Anyone else facing any animosity from your success or just being a SW player?

Yes, but only from idiots.

 

Ive got alot of good luck *knocks on wood* and some decent strategy- my friends and regular opponents know that now and again it evens out.

 

Played against a guy the other day, hed heard I won alot, placed well consistently. Turn 4 he accused me of having loaded dice, had to have a couple mutual friends calm him down. Then theres a couple of guys who try to hoodwink people, and always going off about how UBER this or that is... we dont get along.

 

Most of the time though, its just another day. You play politely, kick their ass, and help them where you can- I allow do-overs for serious blunders if they catch it quickly, and I offer tactical advice to newer players, settle rules disputes as a third party... A little good will goes a long way.

[Natanael]

Shocked nobody has suggested this yet: try switching armies with them for a game or two. If you win with their army, clearly SW is beatable - if you lose, at least they know that you're a good sport, and not just looking to roll people with a cheesy army (which may be their perception, even if it isn't true, and it doesn't sound like it is). Either way, you both get to try something new, you get to play (without even changing your Army composition), and you don't have to throw matches, which really isn't good for anybody.

 

-Stormshrug

 

This. I had trouble with a friend daemons (and I still do) but when we switched armies for a game or two I got a lot better at understanding what is good and not, what to take out first and so on.

 

- Natanael

[Grimtooth]

Anyone else facing any animosity from your success or just being a SW player?

Yes, but only from idiots.

 

Ive got alot of good luck *knocks on wood* and some decent strategy- my friends and regular opponents know that now and again it evens out.

 

Played against a guy the other day, hed heard I won alot, placed well consistently. Turn 4 he accused me of having loaded dice, had to have a couple mutual friends calm him down. Then theres a couple of guys who try to hoodwink people, and always going off about how UBER this or that is... we dont get along.

 

Most of the time though, its just another day. You play politely, kick their ass, and help them where you can- I allow do-overs for serious blunders if they catch it quickly, and I offer tactical advice to newer players, settle rules disputes as a third party... A little good will goes a long way.

 

I do this as well. In fact in my last game, I allowed an entire unit of jump packed equipped VGV to move back to their original position, after he had moved and shot, because he didn't think out the full effect of Tempest Wrath against them.