Community-created Chapter?

[fivepointedstar]

this is my 315th post i just wanted to feel special too like the Normish. :D

[Reyner]

That sounds good.

[Brother Tyler]

That's 4 expressions of interest in the concept of a challenge format. I'll add a poll to this to see what the overall preference is.

 

...Might I suggest, as a way to garner a bit more interest and possibly encourage further participation, that we work with someone with mad art skills to make signatures for the winners of each "challenge"? It seems to me that every time one of these challenges or events is thought up, people try extra hard when they know they can get something...

There could be a lot of elements.

 

How about a signature banner for anyone that participates, another one for anyone that wins at least one element, another one for anyone that wins at least 3 elements, and another one for the person that wins the most elements?

[Brother Tyler]

STANDARD DISCUSSION

 

This style of DIY Chapter development is done as a group process, with discussion being the format. This is typical of past community DIY Chapter development efforts (most of which have failed).

 

ELEMENT CHALLENGE

 

This is an experimental style in which a facilitator or facilitators (possibly me, though someone else might take up the mantle, and others might assist) comes up with a challenge for each element of the DIY Chapter. Participants then have a certain time in which to develop a proposal to answer the challenge. The community will then pick the winning proposal by vote. Each element will be presented individually, with later elements building on the winning proposals from earlier elements. The weakness with this style is that the challenges for each element will drive the proposals, so there won't be total freedom.

 

PERIODIC CHALLENGE

 

This wasn't one of the choices above because it's not really a "community" effort. In this, a facilitator or facilitators will present a challenge that defines some aspect(s) of a Chapter. Participants will then have a set time in which to develop a DIY Chapter that answers the challenge. All submissions will then be posted with the winner selected by some voting process. These challenges might be run every other month or quarterly.

[Shinzaren]

STANDARD DISCUSSION

 

This style of DIY Chapter development is done as a group process, with discussion being the format. This is typical of past community DIY Chapter development efforts (most of which have failed).

 

ELEMENT CHALLENGE

 

This is an experimental style in which a facilitator or facilitators (possibly me, though someone else might take up the mantle, and others might assist) comes up with a challenge for each element of the DIY Chapter. Participants then have a certain time in which to develop a proposal to answer the challenge. The community will then pick the winning proposal by vote. Each element will be presented individually, with later elements building on the winning proposals from earlier elements. The weakness with this style is that the challenges for each element will drive the proposals, so there won't be total freedom.

 

PERIODIC CHALLENGE

 

This wasn't one of the choices above because it's not really a "community" effort. In this, a facilitator or facilitators will present a challenge that defines some aspect(s) of a Chapter. Participants will then have a set time in which to develop a DIY Chapter that answers the challenge. All submissions will then be posted with the winner selected by some voting process. These challenges might be run every other month or quarterly.

 

I like any and all the ideas suggested, but I think the Element Challenge is both the most interesting, and the most likely to succeed and be enjoyable. The Periodic Challenge is basically the Iron Gauntlet, which I believe Silver Phoenix runs each year :lol:

[Ecritter]

That's 4 expressions of interest in the concept of a challenge format. I'll add a poll to this to see what the overall preference is.

 

...Might I suggest, as a way to garner a bit more interest and possibly encourage further participation, that we work with someone with mad art skills to make signatures for the winners of each "challenge"? It seems to me that every time one of these challenges or events is thought up, people try extra hard when they know they can get something...

There could be a lot of elements.

 

How about a signature banner for anyone that participates, another one for anyone that wins at least one element, another one for anyone that wins at least 3 elements, and another one for the person that wins the most elements?

 

Problem is, and I may be mistaken, I believe we are limited to one pic in our signatures.

[Brother Tyler]

Problem is, and I may be mistaken, I believe we are limited to one pic in our signatures.

Well, you'd only need one. If you have the most elements incorporated, you've obviously got at least one incorporated and you've participated. Likewise with if you have at least three elements incorporated.

 

Also, the forum rules allow multiple images in signatures, as long as all of them display within a space no taller than 100 pixels and no wider than 350 pixels (note the multiple images in my signature :lol: ).

[PorridgeMeister]

I like this idea of having a picture in our sigs for participation in the challenge...but couldn't we have that anyway?

[Shinzaren]

I like this idea of having a picture in our sigs for participation in the challenge...but couldn't we have that anyway?

Yep. But these would be unique signatures, designed specifically for this challenge :D

[Reyner]

Sounds great. Now that my writing juices are flowing for once I'm up for this!

[PorridgeMeister]

I like this idea of having a picture in our sigs for participation in the challenge...but couldn't we have that anyway?

Yep. But these would be unique signatures, designed specifically for this challenge :o

 

Yes, but I mean - if we don't have it as a challenge - why don't we have the images in our signatures as a sign of being part of the design for this community chapter?

 

If you see what I mean.. :(

[The Normish]

I like this idea of having a picture in our sigs for participation in the challenge...but couldn't we have that anyway?

Yep. But these would be unique signatures, designed specifically for this challenge :o

 

Yes, but I mean - if we don't have it as a challenge - why don't we have the images in our signatures as a sign of being part of the design for this community chapter?

 

If you see what I mean.. :(

So, if we don't do a challenge thing, one single design of signature for whosoever contributed in an important manner? Seems good to me.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, the challenge idea sounds pretty interesting.

 

I'd be intrigued to see how it plays out - how would each writer go about getting C&C, for instance?

What I mean is, rather than seeing eight or nine very similar topics pop up in the Liber overnight.

 

Actually, it occurs you could just PM people and ask them to read your stuff. :lol:

Way to answer your own question, Ace. :lol:

[Brother Tyler]

The way I see it working is that the facilitator(s) would post each element individually. Participants would then develop their proposal/solution for the element, PMing or e-mailing their submission to the facilitator(s). Once the allotted time period ends, all of the submissions would be posted for voting. The crux of each vote would probably be the content, with format refinement taking place later. So we wouldn't be as concerned with spelling, grammar, etc. when it comes to the vote - we'd focus on the idea(s) being presented. If a very good idea that has poor spelling/grammar is selected, we'd fix the problems and implement improvements through a more standard discussion process.

 

The whole point would be for the submissions to be anonymous, so no offline/PM/e-mail discussions with other members on submissions (other than the facilitator(s) who would be neutral).

 

From the looks of the voting so far, it looks like we have over half a dozen that are interested in participating, with the majority preferring the element challenge idea. So we'll go forward with that idea and if it doesn't work, we'll go back to the drawing board. I'll take some time to develop the basic element guidelines and will start things off later on today or tomorrow (I hope).

[Ace Debonair]

Right, gotcha.

 

Basically, you criticize your own stuff if you think it needs doing, then submit it for general consideration to whoever you have to post it to. :P

I'm cool with that if everyone else is. :P

[Octavulg]

I'd recommend starting with Beliefs, rather than with Origins. Or with name, possibly.

 

Starting with Origins seems like a good way to wander down a path, then end up with a set destination.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I would start with giving them a symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name and having them come up with a symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name based on that symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name.

[Brother Tyler]

There are probably a variety of sequences that might be used. I think that the driving factor behind the success or failure of this endeavor won't necessarily be the sequence (though that could be a contributing factor). Rather, I think that the facilitator is the key. The facilitator has to provide element challenges that allow for flexibility and creativity while actually challenging the participants, and the sequencing of the elements has to allow for sufficient development and integration of the ideas as the challenges progress.

 

The key thing is to manage expectations and realize that the facilitator (or facilitators) will steer the project. Every facilitator will have his or her own biases, and the facilitator will have significant potential to influence the development. The facilitator has to exert some influence, but that influence has to be directed towards challenging the participants to be creative while working within whatever limitations the facilitator has established.

 

So participants have to understand that this project may allow for varying degrees of freedom and creative expression, with the facilitator(s) exerting certain influences in establishing what might be done.

 

Consider this first project to be a test run. If it doesn't work, that isn't necessarily because the idea is bad. Rather, it will probably be because the decisions I'm going to make might not work. We might refine it further, and it's possible that we might see different degrees of success with additional or different facilitators. This one is an experiment and isn't necessarily an indicator of how I might run future iterations, and different facilitators might run their own versions completely differently.

 

I'll be straight up in the basic scope I'm working from in this project. For this one, we're going to have what is basically a "Codex" Chapter, though it's possible for some minor divergence to incorporated. I'm going to challenge you to develop a "Codex" Chapter that has character all its own without looking like the Ultramarines. Where it goes from there, I'm not sure, and the participants will have a significant say in that through the voting process. I'm working on the starting elements right now and will initiate the project once I have the framework built (hopefully tonight, depending on whether or not the wife/kids let me have some geek time ;) ). I'll try to establish the broad scope of the project in the initial post, just to manage everyone's expectations.

[PorridgeMeister]

I would start with giving them a symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name and having them come up with a symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name based on that symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name.

I agree; you can expand on the fluff by using these things, like with the Dark Angels' Deathwing armour.

[Ecritter]

I would start with giving them a symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name and having them come up with a symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name based on that symbol and/or paint scheme and/or name.

I agree; you can expand on the fluff by using these things, like with the Dark Angels' Deathwing armour.

 

>> Opinion heavy response zone <<

 

Ah, now you begin your fall into the pit that is one of the worse mistakes of the Liber. Chapters are named long before their deeds are done. Name the Chapter, come up with a color scheme, then work on the chapter whether it matches the name and armor or not. Even the masters at GW fall into this trap, and it shames us all.

 

That is the correct way it should be done. :)

 

>> End opinion zone <<

Edited November 12, 2010 by Ecritter

[Brother Tyler]

Chapters are named long before their deeds are done. Name the Chapter, come up with a color scheme, then work on the chapter whether it matches the name and armor or not. Even the masters at GW fall into this trap, and it shames us all.

 

That is the correct way it should be done.

Exactly! The influence I will exert will be designed to develop the Chapter more organically and "realistically", preventing the over-theming that too often occurs. Members will still have considerable freedom to develop a theme, and there is certainly the potential to over-theme if that is what the members want, but I'm going to steer towards Chapter development that is on a similar quality level to the Chapters presented in IA9 (which I consider to be of the highest caliber).

 

All that said, there's no reason that a subsequent iteration of this concept might not decide to follow a different sequence and develop a Chapter based on a theme. This is a perfect example of how the facilitator will have a profound influence on the project, and all methods work equally well.

[PorridgeMeister]

That is the correct way it should be done. :wallbash:

*gulp*

 

I take it that this is off then since nobody has posted...(?)

[Octavulg]

Look in the sticky threads at the top of the forum. :wallbash: