Need help with strategy

[SecretStamos]

Hey everyone. I have a 1000pts Dark Angels army. On Sunday, me and my two friends decided to play 40k.

Now, it's been over a year since my first game in 40k, but I know the rules. One friend is really good at it, and he's using the imperial guard in this game. My other friend was playing for his first time, using Black Templars with normal 5th edition marine rules. My army also uses 5th edition marine rules

We all used 1,500 pts for this battle. I had to borrow a few marines (ironically painted as space wolves) for this fight.

 

Now, originally I teamed up with the Templar player to fight the Imperial Guard. However, during the first shooting phase, the imperial guard player lost two russes to the templar players lascannons. His final tank remaining only sports an autocannon.

 

Now here's the problem:

I have no melee squads in my army, save for the two commanders. One of my combat squads was attacked by assault marines, and the other by the Black Templars commander after I killed his squad. I''m not sure if I should pull my other tactical squad out or if I should move them with my relic blade commander into the fight.

I also have the problem of Commisar Yarrick and some guardsmen nearing my other flank. I have enough units to fend him off easily, but I fear I might have to divert the squads protecting my flank to attack the Templars.

I'm also considering rushing my librarian at the land raider and using Vortex of Doom, although he'd be in the line of sight of the lascannons and the autocannons, which would almost certainly tear him to shreds.

Here's a diagram of the battle. We're going to resume it either Thurday or Saturday.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/1120/40kbattleplans.png

Yellow dots mean commander, blue dot means librarian.

Green is my forces, Grey is the Black Templars, and Red is the Imperial Guard. Black means wrecked tanks.

[Disruptor_fe404]

The imminent threats appear to be: the BT commander who will clean out the rest of that squad, the Land Raider (with the illegal TLLC and assault cannon combo?), and both TLLC platforms on the other side of the board. A more moderate threat exists in the Russ with the autocannon.

 

Without knowing the turn order or the scale of the diagram or the heights of the intervening terrain, I would recommend:

 

Detach your relic blade Captain and move him into position to charge the BT leader, and have his squad move into position (further down from him) to charge the BT Assault Squad. Move your topmost vehicle (Razorback?) into a position with cover from the autocannon Russ. If your Librarian is in TDA, move (but do not detach) your Librarian towards the Land Raider (you will be giving up a plasma cannon template for this), otherwise hang back (he can't fire Vortex after moving if he isn't in TDA).

 

Fire the immobilised multi-melta at the LR (assuming it can). If it is still up, use your Librarian's Vortex power on the LR. If the LR is taken out, fire at the dreadnought or the Predator with your missiles and lascannon unit (illegal Devastators?). If the LR is taken out, fire your TLLC on the Razorback at the side armour of the opposing Predator (or the Dread, they're both of roughly equal priority, but the side armour of the Pred will be easier to get through).

 

Assault the BT commander with your Captain, assault the BT Assault Squad with your Tactical Squad.

 

I'm sure you can play the rest of the game out!

[Hialmar]

First of all it is kind of hard to give this sort of advice mid-game without all of the facts, or if there is some confusion as to exactly what is going on and the forces involved and all of the equipment they have. While you supply some details and some can be determined with an educated guess, it is best to be as thorough as possible.

 

Is the Black Templar actually playing Black Templars with their rules or is he playing Codex marines in black armor? I assume he is using codex marines as I see no Emperor's Champion.

 

Are your Dark Angels using the Space Marine Codex or are you using the actual Dark Angel Codex? I assume it is the former based upon the psychic powers chosen.

 

If I had to guess based on what I see on the map and what you have said, I believe both marine players are using the Vanilla Marine Codex for their lists. Besides a Relic Blade what does your Commander carry and is he a Captain or a Chapter Master? How is your Librarian equipped? It appears on the map that the Librarian is attached to the top Tactical Squad with the Plasmagun/Plasma Cannon combo, based on the Psychic Abilities listed there, but you have a yellow circle indicating a character attached to a (12?) man Tactical Squad with the Plasmagun/Plasma Cannon in the middle of your force. Since it states Relic Blade next to that circle I am guessing that is actually your Commander.

 

You also have another Yellow Circle with Lightning Claws attached to the next group of 5 marines with a Missile Launcher. Is this another Tactical Squad and if so how are they only 5 strong with a single Missile Launcher? You also appear to have too many characters as you can only have 2 of them and you seem to thave 3. Your Bottom Group also has 5 marines but has a Plasmagun & Plasma Cannon. Tactical Squads require full 10 man compliments before you can take Special and Heavy Weapons, so either you have taken some losses already, which is not clear from your report to this point, or these squads are not equipped properly.

 

On your far left of your army you have an 7 man unit with 4 Missile Launchers and 1 Lascannon. As far as I can recall, there is not a unit outside of Space Wolves that can equip a squad in that fashion. Above and to the right of that unit is a 5 man unit that I am guessing are Sternguard as I see a Heavy Bolter, two Combi-flamers and a Powerfist. If that is correct then they are equipped legally, but perhaps not with the best mix of weapons available to them.

 

Outside of Yarrick who is standardized, what other HQs are on the table in your opponents armies and how are they equipped. While your map is okay with the list of what is in each unit, I think to be honest you would best be served by supplying an accurate army list for each of the armies and then describing in a legend what the various terrain pieces are on the table. Are those boxes/shapes representing walls, forests, hills or something else? Currently it is impossible to tell if these terrain features are blocking line of sight or just giving some cover or doing nothing at all. You may want to try a program like Vassal or Battle Chronicler to set up your map and units with a bit better clarity and you might get more and better results in your query.

 

All of that having been said, and assuming it is your turn coming up you might want to try the following: If you have a target for your Missile Launcher in the one Tactical Squad, you may wish to seperate your Lightning Claw armed character and send him into the fight with the other Tactical unit that is in combat with the Templars below them. Fire your Missile at the valid target and if in range fire the bolters there as well. This target may be the Terminators with the Thunder Hammers, so use a Krak Missile in that case. Any Terminators you kill at a distance means less swings at you later. If you do not have a valid target for the Missile Launcher, you could move the character and unit down to bolster that fight and hoepfulyl kill off the 5 Templars down there. If the Templars in that unit all just have Bolt Pistols and Chainswords and you are both using the actual Vanilla marine Codex the extra attacks plus the LC attacks will probably be enough to win that fight easily enough.

 

Your Predator is a tank killer so either take out the last Leman Russ or finish off the Land Raider. It may be immobilized but it can still fire and hurt you and blocks line of sight and if you blow it up you may even catch some of the Templars in the explosion. I personally would go after the Leman Russ this turn and use the immobilized (is it a Landspeeder?) with the Multimelta to kill the Land Raider this turn.

 

As far as Yarrick and the IG are concerned if they are advancing then let them come to you and kill them. You have more than enough firepower up there to deal with Yarrick and Company. If that is a hill between your Sternguard and the Librarian's tactical Squad and the IG, you may want to advance so you can actually fire at the IG if you need to. The (over-equipped Devastator Squad) with the Missile Launchers and Lascannon probably need to be moved as they either have no shots or your own guys/terrain are providing cover saves to the enemy. I would also probably move your oversized Tactical Squad up to that wall, if that is what it is, towards the Templars so you can shoot over it without providing them with a cover save, which while only applicable really to the Plasma Weapons, there is no sense in making it easier on him.

 

Obviously this is all a rough guess based on some assumptions on my part and again with a bit more and clearer information someone could probably give you much better advice.

[SecretStamos]

Thanks for the feedback! Both the Black Templars and the Dark Angels are using the standard 5th edition marine codex. Now to clear up some things:

My force only has two commanders; one is a captain with a relic blade, combi-melta, hellfire rounds and a grenade launcher, the other is a Librarian with a force weapon and a bolter. The commander that is near my two five man squads is actually a Black Templar chapter master armed with lightning claws. (I can't say what else)

The two combat squads that are being attacked are actually one tactical squad using the combat squad rules. The Black Templars also have a squad using this rule.

The devastator squad might only have 3 missile launchers and one lascannon, and the "oversized tactical squad" was meant to have only 10 marines. An error in representation on my part.

I also forgot to label my Sternguard and my Razorback up towards the imperial guard sector. Because of an error on my part when starting the game, the Razorback is empty and doesn't have a squad assigned to it.

The unit behind the Land Raider is a Land Speeder.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Pretty much everything I said applies then, although now I also recommend moving your Sternguard up to a position where they can fire upon Yarrick and his squad should they advance on your position.

 

You'd also want to make sure you're in a good position to pour bolter fire down the throats of the TDA Assault Squad if they choose to deep strike near you. As is, you're in a reasonably good position to do that, but once you clear the BT Chapter Master and Assault Squad from your position, your consolidation should bring your two combat squads closer to your other bolters.

[SecretStamos]

I think the Imperial Guardsmen are going to walk directly into the bolter range, so I won't even have to set up the heavy bolter for another volley..

The game ended on the assault phase for the Black Templars, and Imperial Guard turn is movement turn is directly afterward.

Thanks for the help. The advice you've given seems logical and very useful. We're trying to plan when to resume the game. Thursday currently seems to be the most likely choice.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Move the Sternguard beside and back in relation to the Razorback. Then shoot the guardsman, and when they get to assault range, if you don't feel you can beat them, join them :D . No, move your Razorback in front of the Sternguard and reposition the Sternguard to a new killing position. Try reading up on the Battle of Cowpens in the US revolutionary war.

[SecretStamos]

The sternguard squad fired the heavy bolter the turn before. It managed to kill 2 guardsmen by itself. I don't think I'll have any problem with the rest of the squad when they get into bolter range. The tactical squad nearby should also be in range.

I haven't lost a single marine yet, although I fear the Black Templars will have something to say about that.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

If you're confident enough, focus the tac squad on the ogryns or the BT squad by the Land Raider which will hopefully be destroyed by the immobilized MM speeder. On an unrelated note, someone should do a challenge where they show a map of a board like this and have people come up with tactics to win.

[SecretStamos]

From what I can tell, the Ogyrns aren't interested in my marines. The guard player appears to be moving them toward the Templars.

[SecretStamos]

I ended up losing to the Black Templars. The rush in with my tactical squad failed horribly and the they got slaughtered by the Assault Terminators and the Assault Squad sergeant. I ended up finishing the Land Raider with my speeder before it died after it got immobilized. The last imperial guard tank chewed up my other tactical squad, and even after firing my entire devastator squad at it, it still managed to survive. I ended up constantly stunning it with my Razorback, stopping the mounted plasma cannons from wrecking havoc on my veteran squad. They, however, eliminated Commissar Yarrick and the Imperial Guard squad with some pretty solid shooting. Yarrick was tough to take down, but the entire squad came out at full strength. The Librarian marched towards the Templars, but the lone assault sergeant ended up powerfisting him twice in the face, killing him. My captain fought the Templar Chapter Master in a relic blade vs. lightning claw match, with my commander eventually getting the better of him. After killing the enemy leader, he cut down the assault sergeant. A few surviving members of the tactical squads fired into the terminators with plasma weapons, killing three of them. The devastators were unable to really damage anything; their weapons were ineffective against both the Terminators and the Leman Russ.

I possibly could have won had I not sent my tactical marines into close combat..

[Disruptor_fe404]

Didn't realise the Assault Squad Sergeant had a powerfist. Were you unable to shoot the Assault Terminators before they charged?

 

Also, I thought the last Russ only had an autocannon?

[SecretStamos]

I forgot a few key details when I described the enemy forces. Apparently the Leman Russ had two plasma cannons too. When the terminators teleported in, I hit them with a few rockets and a lascannon, but none of them died. I also wasted a turn firing my entire Devastator squad at the Leman Russ, but they were unable to do practically anything! The frontal armor is practically impenetrable. Even my lascannon was wounding on like, a 5+ or something.

[Bannus]

I think you will have better results in Tactica Astartes - moving thread......