Questions for army creation

[ListenToTheFool]

Is the Wolf Lord worth it when he tags along with a GH squad in a rhino, especially with Saga of the Warriorborn? I have seen a lot of builds with just 2 or 3 Rune Lords, relying on the GH and the WG for the real close combat. The only time I have seen Wolf Lords extensively used is with Thunderwolf Lords. Are razorbacks really worth taking on the Long Fangs as a Lascannon platform and for positioning the LF on turn 1 of Dawn of War scenarios?

[Grey Mage]

I wouldnt take a Wolf Lord with a GH squad in a rhino, because Im sacrificing a GH.

 

Id take him in a Razorback with some wolf gaurd, or grey hunters. Or on a bike with some Swiftclaws.

 

And yes, I think a Razorback with anti-tank options is a great buy for LFs- for the positioning, and for a third target to take down.

[Thunderhawk3015]

I would use a Wolf Lord with blood claws(any variety) or on a thunderwolf. Aside from that Rune Priests and Wolf Priests have more bonuses overall. If I did put an IC into a Grey Hunter pack it would be a WGBL. Cheaper, can take almost all the same things as a Lord and provide close to the same oomph in close combat.

[ListenToTheFool]

I have pretty much come to the same conclusion on the Wolf Lord. He just doesn't have the "oomph" unless hes on a Thunderwolf or a true Combat squad like the BCs (Though I would go with Ragnar for the extra 60 pts it costs to field him)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Is the Wolf Lord worth it when he tags along with a GH squad in a rhino, especially with Saga of the Warriorborn? I have seen a lot of builds with just 2 or 3 Rune Lords, relying on the GH and the WG for the real close combat. The only time I have seen Wolf Lords extensively used is with Thunderwolf Lords. Are razorbacks really worth taking on the Long Fangs as a Lascannon platform and for positioning the LF on turn 1 of Dawn of War scenarios?

 

Greys are an excellent unit. However, I would not consider them a 'hardcore' assault unit. *probably insert quibbling with Grey Mage here :) * When you include the Lord into the pack, because he costs so much and is far better in mêlée than at shooting, you are forcing the Greys into combat just to make your points back on the Lord.

 

What makes Greys so good is them being flexible and whatever the need, they can fulfil it. Using the Lord makes them to throw away that strength.

 

You are better off sticking him with a squad whose sole purpose is close combat. That would be Claws, Wolf Guard or Fenwolves and TWC [making the TWM a must have].

 

Infantry s4 t4 ICs have a hard time being killy enough to make their points back.

 

Razorbacks are a good thing :P

Even just a Bolterback is worth having. It is 10 points less than a not-twinlinked Heavy Bolter Speeder, has 1 more AV on the Front and Side and can provide complete TLoS blocking.

 

The LasPlas version is the best at the moment, but you need to do a conversion for that....

But the tl LC is handy ~ it moves 6" a turn and gets flanking shots on what your Fangs are shooting at.

 

If you keep it in the backfield with the Fangs, it can tank-shock pesky DSing Blood Angels [just don't run over the PF or Mg armed ones :P ] and can use it to block TLoS to your Fangs from a particular enemy squad ~ say you wanted to shoot enemy Lootas, you could shield the Fangs from the second squad of Lootas and so keep you Fangs alive for longer.

 

You can use the Razor as a taxi for a Lone Wolf +Fenwolf pack. Deploy them nearby and then on T1 'all-aboard!' and race forwards 12" and another 12" in T2. Sure you have lost 2 turns of shooting with it, but if you buy the Bolterback, it is only 5 pts over a Rhino, and then you have the tlHB to have fun with.

[Grey Mage]

Greys are an excellent unit. However, I would not consider them a 'hardcore' assault unit. *probably insert quibbling with Grey Mage here :P * When you include the Lord into the pack, because he costs so much and is far better in mêlée than at shooting, you are forcing the Greys into combat just to make your points back on the Lord.

*agrees with MW about the lord, and what it does to the grey hunters, but notes that theyre above average for their assault ability in this game- hardcore or not, theyre quite good, repeat 7 or 8 times.*

[TiguriusX]

There is 1 major advantage to putting a WL in a GH squad. The Wolf Standard in combination with Runic Armor virtually guarantees you will not be paper cut to death in round 1 of your assault. If your WL has saga of the warrior born that means he will "charge up" his number of attacks easily.

 

If he also had say a jump pack or something he could ditch the GHs and make use of his 10+ attacks or simply join another GH squad that still has a Wolf Standard.

 

That being said, very expensive combo and it only applies to limited battlefield situations

[nurglez]

when I first picked up the space wolf codex I looked at all the funky toys a wolf lord could take and was like ooooo, yay.

 

then realised that after gearing him up, he was about 50-70 points cheaper then ragnar, who provides a much better squad bonus, or logan, who makes WG troops...

 

A WGBL with some claws or something would make a fine addition, but rune priests add pyschic defense + a few other things, and wolf priests add prefered enemy and fearless...

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Greys are an excellent unit. However, I would not consider them a 'hardcore' assault unit. *probably insert quibbling with Grey Mage here ;) * When you include the Lord into the pack, because he costs so much and is far better in mêlée than at shooting, you are forcing the Greys into combat just to make your points back on the Lord.

*agrees with MW about the lord, and what it does to the grey hunters, but notes that theyre above average for their assault ability in this game- hardcore or not, theyre quite good, repeat 7 or 8 times.*

 

I didn't need to caste bones to see that one coming, eh witchy? :P

 

I think it is more what we ascribe a tag to. We both know what they can do, you call it x and I call it y.

 

Anyway, what I think makes Crusaders and Greys better [more useful?] than Tacs is when the specialists get into mêlée [sword Brethren or TWC] then our TROOPS can rush in at the same time or subsequently and add a good weight of attacks.

 

Ultras rely on Hammernators combat-tactics'ing away so the Tacs can shoot at the disengaged foe. Much easier just to jam more Marines into the action :ph34r:

[Grey Mage]

Greys are an excellent unit. However, I would not consider them a 'hardcore' assault unit. *probably insert quibbling with Grey Mage here :P * When you include the Lord into the pack, because he costs so much and is far better in mêlée than at shooting, you are forcing the Greys into combat just to make your points back on the Lord.

*agrees with MW about the lord, and what it does to the grey hunters, but notes that theyre above average for their assault ability in this game- hardcore or not, theyre quite good, repeat 7 or 8 times.*

 

I didn't need to caste bones to see that one coming, eh witchy? :P

 

I think it is more what we ascribe a tag to. We both know what they can do, you call it x and I call it y.

 

Anyway, what I think makes Crusaders and Greys better [more useful?] than Tacs is when the specialists get into mêlée [sword Brethren or TWC] then our TROOPS can rush in at the same time or subsequently and add a good weight of attacks.

 

Ultras rely on Hammernators combat-tactics'ing away so the Tacs can shoot at the disengaged foe. Much easier just to jam more Marines into the action :)

Oh agreed, your categories are very different than mine. Atleast your learning, slowly, oh zealous one.

 

Ive always felt it was funny, the way C:SM players whine about getting a heavy weapon. I cant tell you the number of times it would have been useful to slam a missile into somethings side armor instead of moving, or how well it would have slowed down the enemy to get some more heavy weapons fire at their transports early game. Tacs have alot going for them- cheap options, grenades, HWs, combat squads.... people just want them to play like Grey Hunters too.

 

Grey Hunters, like most crusader builds Ive seen, have to get in close, get stuck in to be effective. GHs have the edge in being able to let the enemy come to them some times, Crusaders have the advantage of Vows, wich can be game changing. *Shrugs*.

 

Either way my advice is the same as its always been- dont ignore your core. It saves games, it makes games, it wins your wars.

 

Even if 10 WG in a LR with PWs/PFs is a scary unit to see piling out. :D

 

Still, that doesnt leave much room for a WL- but its easier to drop one of them to make room than it is to cut a GH in my mind.

 

So:

 

Skyclaws- a WL with a Jump Pack has plenty of mobility, and a nice savage bodygaurd to make sure he gets to the action and to help him scythe through hordes.

 

Swiftclaws- Much cheaper than WG on bikes, a bit tougher, with some restrictions on their mobility in return for a bit more speed and a higher price. Still, a good combination.

 

Half Squad of GHs- a basic bodygaurd, better for WGBLs and WLs who havent been tooled to the hilt in my opinion- why? Because therell be times you wont want them in CC. Still, a Meltagun and a Totem make them a decent escort.

 

Bloodclaws, say in a LRC- Overkill in my opinion. At nearly twice the price of a Wolf Priest I think Id stick to one IC. Still, if your in apocalypse, and that 300 strong gaunt squad simply HAS to go- this unit will get the job done.

 

With WGTDA in a LR- my gods is this expensive. Seriously, thats my main problem here.... he almost doubles the price of the LR, and then the squad inside does it again :S. Hope your enemy has a large hammer unit for you to obliterate, otherwise your points are going to be hard to make back.

 

Drop Podding- Theres less a place for any IC in a DP force, simply because our codex doesnt allow them to drop with 10 man squad. *Seriously, leave the ale behind!* In any case, a small bodygaurd of WG with combi-weapons can be turned into an effective unit, and remain a threat with him throughout the game.

 

ThunderLord- Pain to find the models for, some tournaments wont allow them, but a solid and savage unit. Its the +1 S/T I think that pushes him over the top- a S6 PW at I5, with 7 attacks on the charge? Easily one of the most brutal marine HQs out there- and rather expensive if your not careful. Still, running him with a dozen or so fenrisian wolves helps keep him alive, and the price down.

 

And of course, theres always the 'Gateholder'. TDA, TH, SS, WTT, WTN, Saga of the Bear or Warrior Born. I take this guy sometimes in Planetstrike, or apocalypse. He says "I stand" and units, monsters break around him. Much better in apocalypse though- Legion Relic was made for a Wolf Lord :D