what the odds SW vs DE

[Torin]

Been reading through some forum and i find the DE kinda scary and abit of an overkill i would say. this is what i got from the other forum.

 

 

1

Wow!! Haemonculus power play...pain tokens lotery hahaha!!

 

I'd still field da Archonite Cikgu Disiplin, cuz he's just freakin awesome! & when combined with 3 Haemonculus, de army would be kicking-ass dude!!

 

3 Haemonculus = 3 auto paintokens oredi i.e 1 each. Take a minimum of 2 Wracks sqd, each comes with their own default 1 pain token. Thus, on their own, a lone Haemonculus wil hav FnP, so as a Wrack unit.

 

If 1 Haemonculus join another Haemonculus to from a sqd of 2 Haemonculus cha, they'll benefit fr FnP & FC. But i'd prefer if a Haemonculus joins a Wrack sqd to gain da same benefits.

 

If da second Haemonculus also joins dis Wrack sqd, they'll benefit fr 3 pain tokens, thus havin FnP, FC & Fearless. Of course, if da Archon joins da orgy, he too wil benefit fr these advantages i.e he'll hav 2+ invul, 4+ armor, FnP, FC & fearless right fr da start!

 

And who says dat u r limited to just 3 Haemonculus? Take six, and arm them all with scissorhands!! My personal favourite Haemonculus combo is Scissorhand + Liquifier Gun. Move 6", flame-on. Then, when charging, even a cheepo apprentice DE-Mad Doc at just 75pts will hav 5 poison (3+) atks each!!

 

Now just imagine 2 groups of 3 Haemonculus combine-charge a target..they'll deliver a total of 30 poison (3+) atks! With FC in play, they'll be charging at S4. So, if they r charging at targets wif T4 or below (MEQs, Eldar, IG, Tau, Necron, DE..etc), they can re-roll to wound as stated in da 40k rulebook regarding poison weapons!!!

 

2

 

Spc cha. Duke of Hazard + 3 units of 10 Trueborn Kabalite Warriors all wif Shardscarbines a.k.a "Death Within 18" hahaha!!

 

I'm talking about 60 poison (4+) shots + 30 poison (3+) shots per shooting phase!!! Now dats an infantry gunline!!

 

Add a cheepo Haemonculli to each sqd to benefit fr FnP, & just camp inside a nice & cozy cover...OP kan?

 

Cheez u might say? Wait til i tell u wats fer TROOP choices!!

 

Tadaa!!! 2 sqds of 3 Wracks hiding & guarding a nicely hidden home-base objective...Still don't get it do ya? Let me say it slowly....

 

They..cost..only..30..pts..per..sqd..&..they..hav..FnP.. MMUAHH!!..HA!..HA!..HA!..

 

 

 

i just find the option they have is crazy.. having a lord that Str can increase by killing unit. So what do you guys think.

[Bracks0682]

They still won't like my Mortis Pattern Dreads (auto cannon)

Dawn of war would give them 1st turn and then shoot them to H***

Typhoon,s will hurt them too..

[Obscura]

I'm looking forward to the "challenge", believe in your little hairy men and they'll carry the day.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

You are doomed!

 

After they turned many aspirants into Russ-esque furbies , I can't think Wolves would be any threat to them at all

 

Be afraid, be very afraid! ^_^

 

*muahahahahahhahahahaha! ~ falls over backwards, then gets up and walks off*

 

EDIT:

I'd actually go so far as to say this is my favourite Dex to date. I'd longed for them to go the way of the S***** but they've done a stellar job with them. I like that xenos are getting a good deal. I want them to be just as powerful as the Imperial ones.

 

Their different playstyle is fun too. Huzzah for spiky elves!

[Sturm Moonwolf]

My army is solid so I'm not worried about Dark Eldar. Parlor tricks, that's all it is.

[CainTheHunter]

They will interesting and fresh in terms of game-style, still very fragile while hard hitting. Keeping high rate of ranged fire and deploy smartly (the thing we learned when facing BA) should criple them. Still I think Wolves have enough to take their transports down and force them walking - Warriors are pathetic in CC as they were but they were never supposed to be CC unit. Now they have poison all around - beware Mephy and TWC. I playtested that stuff and they are making good wounds on TWC. I am also going to put up a small 750 points Raider list with old models I had somewhere lying around and some of the new excellent plastics.

[Spacefrisian]

My army is solid so I'm not worried about Dark Eldar. Parlor tricks, that's all it is.

 

 

You my friend are my favorite kind of opponent when i take my Dark Eldar out.

[Bulweih]

We will do, what we have always done:

Adapt and overcome!

For Russ and the Allfather!

[CainTheHunter]

One thing though... I don't think Wolf Scouts will be a viable option against them. Not in their OBEL role most probably, since DE will be long gone, when WS will arrive. As infiltrators maybe...

On the other hand, with Chooser the Mandrakes will not be a big issue. And with two choosers, their placement options will be very very limited.

[Commander Sasha]

I'd actually go so far as to say this is my favourite Dex to date. I'd longed for them to go the way of the S***** but they've done a stellar job with them. I like that xenos are getting a good deal. I want them to be just as powerful as the Imperial ones.

 

Their different playstyle is fun too. Huzzah for spiky elves!

^Seconded. I've been waiting for a DE revision since I started playing 4 years ago, and was worried that with GW shifting their target audience age lower, that they would either let them quietly disappear, or just renounce the drugs and sado-masochism, turning them fluffy, sad and Emo.

The new codex is vibrant, exciting and I think well written, and the new list is vicious but fragile: I look forward to my DE army as the complement to my Marines, and wish I had multiple personality disorder so I could be on both sides of the table at once!

 

With 1,000pts of Necrons in a box, and a yearning for an inquisition force, it has also filled me with confidence that GW is not likely to leave any of their forces behind.

[Grimtooth]

Considering the vast number of proposed DE tactics I have read prior and after people were able to read the codex, I am not worried in the least. Considering the amount of rules bending I have already seen from DE players with the new codex, it further reinforces myopinion of it being a substandard dex.

[Simo429]

I'm looking forward to playing them but I have confidence that our well rounded codex can stand up to most things.

[BrotherCaptainJames]

DE don't worry me as a marine player in general. They have one solid anti tank weapon aka the dark lance/blaster (shorter ranged dark lance), the heat lance is great against rhino's, but LRC's are going to chew DE up fast. Just do what marines do best, sit back and shoot em down :) The biggest issue i think for us will be actually hitting their vehicles, between 3+ cover saves, 5+ invulnerable saves, and taking 6" off max range for all weapons, that's going to hurt. And expect everything to be in transports.

[Grey Mage]

Meh, I havent been seen anything to Obscene in their codex. FNP? They need it- a 6+ save isnt good for anything. And they can only gaurantee that on what, 4 units, 6 if they dont take a real HQ choice at all?

 

They key to fighting them is, like it always has been, to shut down their mobility. Thats harder than it was for sure- but once you throw on all those upgrades that Raider is pricier than it ever was before too. Fleet? Old news, and it would have been a shock if they lost it.

 

Poison? Im not as impressed with either. Theres only two units it changes anything for in our codex- Thunder Wolves and Swiftclaws. Against every other unit in our codex theyre throwing bolter shots. Do you fear tactical squads sitting in cover firing bolters at you? Is that OP and broken? Yeah right. No, the people who suffer from that one are Daemons, Nidz, and Eldar Spirithosts. One of their characters makes all the poison from a single unit 2+- now thats pretty powerful, but its one unique IC, and IIRC he lacked any form of PW, so do your best to assault him.

 

Like all Eldar, theyre restricted in what they can get in the way of truely long range FP. So yes, while ranges are reduced when firing at them *and itll be interesting to see melta flop against them* their own HWs dont have much range either, forcing them to close with you to deal damage. Use that to your advantage.

 

So no, theyre not pushovers- and thats good. Pushovers get boring fast. But I dont think theyre UBERDOOOOM.

 

Just like the BAs, Nidz, and IG before them.

[Tsavong Lah]

and taking 6" off max range for all weapons

 

Yeah. Thank God for Living Lightening, though! Unlimited range FTW!

[Grimtooth]

and taking 6" off max range for all weapons

 

Yeah. Thank God for Living Lightening, though! Unlimited range FTW!

 

Yea, LL is going to be the bane of many Dark Raider players. I almost think it will force them into taking Crucible of Malediction. Do some sample dice rolls of LL against Raiders. Giving them 3+ cover save or just the 5+ inv save and a good amount of the time you are killing Raiders. I noticed in my last rolls, that when blasting flat out, I even got a few rolls of 4 on penetrating make it through which would bump up to a 5 wrecked, killing everyone aboard.

[Daddywarcrimes]

One thing though... I don't think Wolf Scouts will be a viable option against them. Not in their OBEL role most probably, since DE will be long gone, when WS will arrive. As infiltrators maybe...

On the other hand, with Chooser the Mandrakes will not be a big issue. And with two choosers, their placement options will be very very limited.

 

Amusingly, in my first game against the new DE, my OBEL Wolf Scouts were instrumental in my winning. They finished off a pair of stunned Ravagers that'd been left behind during the initial rush, and drew my opponent's Incubi back towards his own table edge to kill them since he couldn't leave 5 guys in cover with a heavy bolter and 4 sniper rifles taking pot shots at his 10 armor army. I won't deny that the Incubi massacred them, but in doing so, it kept them from doing anything that might have actually won him the game.

 

Being able to vertically envelop an extremely fragile army is actually pretty helpful. Raiders are big, and while you can get them into cover from one direction, getting them into cover on two sides is tricky and being able to hide from fire on three sides is all but impossible.

[Grey Mage]

Yea, LL is going to be the bane of many Dark Raider players. I almost think it will force them into taking Crucible of Malediction. Do some sample dice rolls of LL against Raiders. Giving them 3+ cover save or just the 5+ inv save and a good amount of the time you are killing Raiders. I noticed in my last rolls, that when blasting flat out, I even got a few rolls of 4 on penetrating make it through which would bump up to a 5 wrecked, killing everyone aboard.

Question- how are you shooting at the raider during their own turn? Since thats the only way to insta-gib all the occupants via immobilization and all.

[Spacefrisian]

One thing though... I don't think Wolf Scouts will be a viable option against them. Not in their OBEL role most probably, since DE will be long gone, when WS will arrive. As infiltrators maybe...

On the other hand, with Chooser the Mandrakes will not be a big issue. And with two choosers, their placement options will be very very limited.

 

Amusingly, in my first game against the new DE, my OBEL Wolf Scouts were instrumental in my winning. They finished off a pair of stunned Ravagers that'd been left behind during the initial rush, and drew my opponent's Incubi back towards his own table edge to kill them since he couldn't leave 5 guys in cover with a heavy bolter and 4 sniper rifles taking pot shots at his 10 armor army. I won't deny that the Incubi massacred them, but in doing so, it kept them from doing anything that might have actually won him the game.

 

Being able to vertically envelop an extremely fragile army is actually pretty helpful. Raiders are big, and while you can get them into cover from one direction, getting them into cover on two sides is tricky and being able to hide from fire on three sides is all but impossible.

 

 

I guess you were lucky had this been a true DE player he wouldnt have put effort in those scouts.

[Grimtooth]

Yea, LL is going to be the bane of many Dark Raider players. I almost think it will force them into taking Crucible of Malediction. Do some sample dice rolls of LL against Raiders. Giving them 3+ cover save or just the 5+ inv save and a good amount of the time you are killing Raiders. I noticed in my last rolls, that when blasting flat out, I even got a few rolls of 4 on penetrating make it through which would bump up to a 5 wrecked, killing everyone aboard.

Question- how are you shooting at the raider during their own turn? Since thats the only way to insta-gib all the occupants via immobilization and all.

 

I would be shooting at during my following turn. The Raider is still treated as having moved Flat Out,

 

Pg 71 Shooting at Skimmers

 

"......so a skimmer that is immobilized immediately crashes and is destroyed (wrecked) if it moved flat out in its last turn."

[Grey Mage]

Yea, LL is going to be the bane of many Dark Raider players. I almost think it will force them into taking Crucible of Malediction. Do some sample dice rolls of LL against Raiders. Giving them 3+ cover save or just the 5+ inv save and a good amount of the time you are killing Raiders. I noticed in my last rolls, that when blasting flat out, I even got a few rolls of 4 on penetrating make it through which would bump up to a 5 wrecked, killing everyone aboard.

Question- how are you shooting at the raider during their own turn? Since thats the only way to insta-gib all the occupants via immobilization and all.

 

I would be shooting at during my following turn. The Raider is still treated as having moved Flat Out,

 

Pg 71 Shooting at Skimmers

 

"......so a skimmer that is immobilized immediately crashes and is destroyed (wrecked) if it moved flat out in its last turn."

Yes, that part you got right.

 

But the part about the occupants being destroyed? Thats only on the turn they move- and the book says unless it states game turn, its always player turns.

 

Wich means, that in order for them to die, they must be immobilized on the controlling players turn so that clause can come into effect- your shooting phase is far to late.

[Grimtooth]

One thing though... I don't think Wolf Scouts will be a viable option against them. Not in their OBEL role most probably, since DE will be long gone, when WS will arrive. As infiltrators maybe...

On the other hand, with Chooser the Mandrakes will not be a big issue. And with two choosers, their placement options will be very very limited.

 

Amusingly, in my first game against the new DE, my OBEL Wolf Scouts were instrumental in my winning. They finished off a pair of stunned Ravagers that'd been left behind during the initial rush, and drew my opponent's Incubi back towards his own table edge to kill them since he couldn't leave 5 guys in cover with a heavy bolter and 4 sniper rifles taking pot shots at his 10 armor army. I won't deny that the Incubi massacred them, but in doing so, it kept them from doing anything that might have actually won him the game.

 

Being able to vertically envelop an extremely fragile army is actually pretty helpful. Raiders are big, and while you can get them into cover from one direction, getting them into cover on two sides is tricky and being able to hide from fire on three sides is all but impossible.

 

 

I guess you were lucky had this been a true DE player he wouldnt have put effort in those scouts.

 

Maybe not Incubi, but they would still have to be dealt with. Practically a free pain token, but moreso, a unit in your rear that is fully capable of downing your valuable transports.

[Grimtooth]

Yea, LL is going to be the bane of many Dark Raider players. I almost think it will force them into taking Crucible of Malediction. Do some sample dice rolls of LL against Raiders. Giving them 3+ cover save or just the 5+ inv save and a good amount of the time you are killing Raiders. I noticed in my last rolls, that when blasting flat out, I even got a few rolls of 4 on penetrating make it through which would bump up to a 5 wrecked, killing everyone aboard.

Question- how are you shooting at the raider during their own turn? Since thats the only way to insta-gib all the occupants via immobilization and all.

 

I would be shooting at during my following turn. The Raider is still treated as having moved Flat Out,

 

Pg 71 Shooting at Skimmers

 

"......so a skimmer that is immobilized immediately crashes and is destroyed (wrecked) if it moved flat out in its last turn."

Yes, that part you got right.

 

But the part about the occupants being destroyed? Thats only on the turn they move- and the book says unless it states game turn, its always player turns.

 

Wich means, that in order for them to die, they must be immobilized on the controlling players turn so that clause can come into effect- your shooting phase is far to late.

 

That is right. I remember this argument now from Vendettas making a flat out scout move and then deploying veterans on their turn one since the scout move was not "that" movement phase.

 

I was confusing this with another DE argument I was having in regard to ramming with Shock Prows after moving flat out. His hope relied on getting an exploded result so he could then have his models "placed" and then assault.

[Grimtooth]

Well LL aside, maybe they will be immobilized by Tempest Wrath if I was able to get it cast the prevous turn before they moved flat out. Granted it is on 1's, but I have seen stranger crap happening.

[Hellios]

One thing though... I don't think Wolf Scouts will be a viable option against them. Not in their OBEL role most probably, since DE will be long gone, when WS will arrive. As infiltrators maybe...

On the other hand, with Chooser the Mandrakes will not be a big issue. And with two choosers, their placement options will be very very limited.

 

Amusingly, in my first game against the new DE, my OBEL Wolf Scouts were instrumental in my winning. They finished off a pair of stunned Ravagers that'd been left behind during the initial rush, and drew my opponent's Incubi back towards his own table edge to kill them since he couldn't leave 5 guys in cover with a heavy bolter and 4 sniper rifles taking pot shots at his 10 armor army. I won't deny that the Incubi massacred them, but in doing so, it kept them from doing anything that might have actually won him the game.

 

Being able to vertically envelop an extremely fragile army is actually pretty helpful. Raiders are big, and while you can get them into cover from one direction, getting them into cover on two sides is tricky and being able to hide from fire on three sides is all but impossible.

 

 

I guess you were lucky had this been a true DE player he wouldnt have put effort in those scouts.

 

Maybe not Incubi, but they would still have to be dealt with. Practically a free pain token, but moreso, a unit in your rear that is fully capable of downing your valuable transports.

 

Noo as someone who plays DE in the old dex and who has playued with OBEL scouts against DE... you want to focus your attack... going after the wolf scouts (which I have had a DE player do to me with wychs in the old dex) just causes you to have a weaker spear meaning it is more likely to fail to cause the damage it needs to do in turn 1 & 2 (or 2 & 3 if you are in reserve) if your spear breaks that FNP on the incubi will do you no good... as for the Ravagers that is a shame but if they were stunlocked they were of no use anyway.

 

What the true DE player would do is cripple your army and then go after any units he feels like... the one thing DE have is the abillity to take the intiative (and I don't mean the dice roll at the start of the game) and when you start allowing your opponent to dictate the battle to you... thats when you lose... hell that applies for many armies but it is certainly true for the DE.