DE Gimmick Lists!

[Iacton Qruze]

I do believe if they moved flat out, and suffer a destroyed result during the movement phase in which they moved flat out, all aboard the vehicle are destroyed.

 

Just saying, that shouldn't work.

 

I wouldn't scoff at the armor saves just yet. it's very easy to make any unit in the army FNP from the first turn, including harlequins, until the rule gets FAQ'd. Yeah, str6 nullifies it, along with your ap1 & 2 weaponry, but your bolters don't, and that's what you're going to get the most close range shots from. as to the armor itself, DE have some good ways to screen their infantry. FNP harlies, for one. roll to see them, or shoot through them, giving the unit behind them cover. Beastmasters. shoot the 4++ khymerae, or shoot past them to the unit behind, who gets cover... then get charged by the beasts with a ~24" assault bubble, because both choices were wrong.

 

I'd also watch out for the haemonculi; a lot of ways to "remove from play" models by them. also an I6 str4 ID power weapon attack, 6 of them in fact, plus the soultrap to double their strength when they pop an independent character, or the ability to hit a wolf lord and make him unable to fight in the combat, while he gets beat on by poisoned weapons that round.

 

You're talking about weathering the "gimmicks", and you will if you stay sharp, but you should also be mindful of the players smart enough to look past the obvious choices in army selection for the stuff people don't expect to see.

[Grimtooth]

I do believe if they moved flat out, and suffer a destroyed result during the movement phase in which they moved flat out, all aboard the vehicle are destroyed.

 

Just saying, that shouldn't work.

 

I wouldn't scoff at the armor saves just yet. it's very easy to make any unit in the army FNP from the first turn, including harlequins, until the rule gets FAQ'd. Yeah, str6 nullifies it, along with your ap1 & 2 weaponry, but your bolters don't, and that's what you're going to get the most close range shots from. as to the armor itself, DE have some good ways to screen their infantry. FNP harlies, for one. roll to see them, or shoot through them, giving the unit behind them cover. Beastmasters. shoot the 4++ khymerae, or shoot past them to the unit behind, who gets cover... then get charged by the beasts with a ~24" assault bubble, because both choices were wrong.

 

I'd also watch out for the haemonculi; a lot of ways to "remove from play" models by them. also an I6 str4 ID power weapon attack, 6 of them in fact, plus the soultrap to double their strength when they pop an independent character, or the ability to hit a wolf lord and make him unable to fight in the combat, while he gets beat on by poisoned weapons that round.

 

You're talking about weathering the "gimmicks", and you will if you stay sharp, but you should also be mindful of the players smart enough to look past the obvious choices in army selection for the stuff people don't expect to see.

 

The only time they are destroyed after moving flat out is if they get an destroyed-wrecked result. Then they are forbidden to disembark and die. The destroyed-exploded result does not disembark the unit inside and instead has them placed. People are using that wording specifically to then fire and assault the same turn they moved flat out.

[Tsavong Lah]

Isn't that just the trade-off with getting a destroyed-exploded? You have to take a bunch of hints, but you get to assault afterward.

[Iacton Qruze]

The only time they are destroyed after moving flat out is if they get an destroyed-wrecked result. Then they are forbidden to disembark and die. The destroyed-exploded result does not disembark the unit inside and instead has them placed. People are using that wording specifically to then fire and assault the same turn they moved flat out.

 

Should also be an immobilized result, as moving flat out bumps that up to a wrecked result. by that though, are they even pulling off the explosion with any degree of consistency? I mean assuming they keep it bare bones and just buy the aethersails for the +2d6 move, you're still looking at 65 points down the drain, and if you roll a 1-3 you left yourself as a prime target for shooty death next turn, and you lose a 200 point unit if you roll a 4 or 5.

 

It really seems like an exploit that only an idiot would build an actual battle plan around, as even when you get that coveted 6, you're still going to eat shrapnel as you're thrown clear, and if they didn't take the haemonculus with them, or get a 6 on their combat drugs, the 6+ wychsuit save isn't going to leave enough to mount a worthwhile assault.

[Hellios]

I do believe if they moved flat out, and suffer a destroyed result during the movement phase in which they moved flat out, all aboard the vehicle are destroyed.

 

Just saying, that shouldn't work.

 

I wouldn't scoff at the armor saves just yet. it's very easy to make any unit in the army FNP from the first turn, including harlequins, until the rule gets FAQ'd. Yeah, str6 nullifies it, along with your ap1 & 2 weaponry, but your bolters don't, and that's what you're going to get the most close range shots from. as to the armor itself, DE have some good ways to screen their infantry. FNP harlies, for one. roll to see them, or shoot through them, giving the unit behind them cover. Beastmasters. shoot the 4++ khymerae, or shoot past them to the unit behind, who gets cover... then get charged by the beasts with a ~24" assault bubble, because both choices were wrong.

 

I'd also watch out for the haemonculi; a lot of ways to "remove from play" models by them. also an I6 str4 ID power weapon attack, 6 of them in fact, plus the soultrap to double their strength when they pop an independent character, or the ability to hit a wolf lord and make him unable to fight in the combat, while he gets beat on by poisoned weapons that round.

 

You're talking about weathering the "gimmicks", and you will if you stay sharp, but you should also be mindful of the players smart enough to look past the obvious choices in army selection for the stuff people don't expect to see.

 

The only time they are destroyed after moving flat out is if they get an destroyed-wrecked result. Then they are forbidden to disembark and die. The destroyed-exploded result does not disembark the unit inside and instead has them placed. People are using that wording specifically to then fire and assault the same turn they moved flat out.

 

 

As someone who has played DE before the new codex... I can tell you having your raiders explode is not a good thing... sure it is only S3 blast but wait what is this! Most of my stuff is T3... and my save especially in the case of wyches... not good... people can do this if they want but I hope they enjoy losing half the unit... + they have more expensive raiders because of those upgrades... that means not a lot of DE are going to make it into combat... and a small squad of dark eldar has a good chance of losing against a tactical squad... which for arguements sake is in or behind cover... so you have to buy grenades...

 

DE are Alpha normally Alpha strike... so that they don't take damage... they are not guard who can suicide bomb alpha strike...

 

It is possible to play a stalker list with DE but that is hard and either requires your opponent to have a certain load-out or the board you are playing on to have a good amount of terrain... a stalker list on a good board is a thing of beauty in the hands of a good general... to bad so many boards have 3 trees and a hill.

 

EDIT: I put winning instead of losing :cry:

[SJumppanen]

As someone who has played DE before the new codex... I can tell you having your raiders explode is not a good thing... sure it is only S3 blast but wait what is this! Most of my stuff is T3... and my save especially in the case of wyches... not good... people can do this if they want but I hope they enjoy losing half the unit... + they have more expensive raiders because of those upgrades... that means not a lot of DE are going to make it into combat... and a small squad of dark eldar has a good chance of winning against a tactical squad... which for arguements sake is in or behind cover... so you have to buy grenades...

 

Hmm. If Raider explodes then passengers are going to take single LD test to avoid being pinned and then very likely to take an another for taking 25% casualties, right?

[Grimtooth]

The only time they are destroyed after moving flat out is if they get an destroyed-wrecked result. Then they are forbidden to disembark and die. The destroyed-exploded result does not disembark the unit inside and instead has them placed. People are using that wording specifically to then fire and assault the same turn they moved flat out.

 

Should also be an immobilized result, as moving flat out bumps that up to a wrecked result. by that though, are they even pulling off the explosion with any degree of consistency? I mean assuming they keep it bare bones and just buy the aethersails for the +2d6 move, you're still looking at 65 points down the drain, and if you roll a 1-3 you left yourself as a prime target for shooty death next turn, and you lose a 200 point unit if you roll a 4 or 5.

 

It really seems like an exploit that only an idiot would build an actual battle plan around, as even when you get that coveted 6, you're still going to eat shrapnel as you're thrown clear, and if they didn't take the haemonculus with them, or get a 6 on their combat drugs, the 6+ wychsuit save isn't going to leave enough to mount a worthwhile assault.

 

I kid you not, people are looking at this build to get a first turn assault by sacrificing sail/shock prow raiders and hoping for a 5-6 roll on damage. Even if they roll 1-2, they are counting on the flat out cover save to protect them long enough to assault the following turn.

[Spacefrisian]

One example of a DE gimmick list that I have seen several people already building:

 

Raider heavy lists with I think it is Wyches with Shock Prows to allow first turn assaults by ramming and being PLACED as a exploded result.

 

 

Thats a very old trick.

 

Care to elaborate since Shock Prows are brand new and allow a fast AV 10 skimmer to ram after moving 24". Forgot to add that they are also using this in conjunction with the sails upgrade.

 

 

They previuosly went by the name tortue amps they did almost the same except the d3 added ramming power, so they might look new to those who dont know much about the Dark Eldar.

[Iacton Qruze]

Well I forgot about that +1 for open topped. I guess that ups the odds quite a bit, although that still leaves the unit dead on a roll of 3 or 4.

 

I just don't see it as being viable unless they are going to commit to the haemonculi for FNP, and then what are they going to do if they face someone with no mech, or a nid force? I'd rather dump the points into other upgrades on the raiders and not treat them like time bombs.

[bulley]

Having spectated a couple of DE games yesterday, both with regular SM's I was fully confident the average DE player will fall to the average SW or BA player, and little above average SM player.

 

That said, my meta is at 1500 and I have decided its time to remove the LRC from the list - which really with now a lot of lance spam going on in our meta, is over costed - but I was thinking of that prior to the people declaring their new found DE allegience (or "shiney new" preference).

 

I am going to have fun ripping DE apart with AC's though lol

[Spacefrisian]

I dont think Lancespam is their anymore, yes their are stil a few Lances but the number of Lances for each DE army has been cut in half with the new dex.

[Hellios]

I dont think Lancespam is their anymore, yes their are stil a few Lances but the number of Lances for each DE army has been cut in half with the new dex.

 

True but some of the platforms they can go have been improved... like now I'm more likely to take DL Ravagers where before I always took dessies on my Ravagers because... plasma cannons rock and if I moved fast I would fire the super-boltgun shots... now that those dessies are no more and that Ravagers can move 12 and unleash the pain... I guess I'll take lances on them... although I've not really figured what I'll do with the new dex... yet... Oh and the flyers... they could be interesting.

[Iacton Qruze]

The flyers cost upwards of a land raider after you buy missiles (especially the Voidwing) and are just as vulnerable to fire... Voidwing is slightly tougher in the armor.

 

That said, the damage output is pretty fierce. the void mine and the implosion missile are definitely something to watch out for.

[Hellios]

The flyers cost upwards of a land raider after you buy missiles (especially the Voidwing) and are just as vulnerable to fire... Voidwing is slightly tougher in the armor.

 

That said, the damage output is pretty fierce. the void mine and the implosion missile are definitely something to watch out for.

 

 

Well if you are playing an Alpha strike list being vulnerable to fire isn't that much of an issue but I get your point.