Gaining Pain Tokens

[Seahawk]

So the Dark Eldar have the new rule "Fuelled by Pain." For the units that have it, it says they gain a Pain Token when they destroy a unit.

 

Now, how would you define that (as GW cunningly did not?) We had a variety of scenarioes and went with the following:

 

Completely shot/destroyed unit: +1 Pain Token

Completely wiped out in assault: +1 Pain Token

Caught unit after it fled from assault that turn: +1 Pain Token

Destroyed Transport and occupants couldn't disembark: No Pain Token

Blew up Transport and occupants all died: No Pain Token

Shot and forced to flee off the table: No Pain Token

Assaulted and forced to flee off the table: No Pain Token

 

Would you agree with that (until it gets FAQ'd)? The reasoning for the transport deaths is that the transport rules killed the unit, not the DE whose only active part was just standing there. As for exploding, the vehicle killed the occupants, as in it shot them, hitting automatically, and wounded/killed them. It was splinter fire or otherwise.

 

For the fleeing off the table, not only would it be difficult to keep track of long fleeing units and who forced them to flee turns ago, but it's the table edge that made them die, not the DE shooting or chopping.

 

Basically, if the DE didn't wipe them out with their shooting or close combat, no Pain Token.

 

Also, if a single DE unit ran off and caught 3 enemy units in a single round of combat, do they instantly gain 3 tokens? That's what we figured happens.

 

How would you define "destroying a unit?"

[thade]

I'm with you on almost all of your counts there. However...

 

- Doesn't destroying the Rhino (which is a unit) net you a Pain Token? Or is it only Infantry Units?

- I'd say if you destroy the Rhino and the unit inside is finished, you destroyed them too. You' net a Kill Point for them, after all.

 

That might be the safest be.

1. Was it/would it be worth a kill point?

2. If yes, is Unit A responsible for me getting the Kill Point?

3. If yes, Unit A gets a Pain Token.

 

That might be too far an inference, but it's the first thing that came to mind.

[Seahawk]

Well, a unit fleeing off a table is a Kill Point...but who did it, and how and when?

 

The tokens are gained only for non-vehicle units. The DE unit did not shoot or assault the occupants but they did die, just like they could shoot a unit that's fleeing (but not assault them) and they flee again off the table. I like to think it's a case of "the Rules killed them," not the DE specifically. But then I have no idea really and GW isn't willing to help.

[Grey Mage]

I would say if theyre unable to disembark and destroyed that the unit who trapped them would gain a pain token... but thats just an off hand opinion.

 

One note- if three DE units are in assault with some gardians, who flee, and are caught, do they all get pain tokens? Or atleast, all of them who rolled high enough to catch the enemy?

[Hellios]

I would say if theyre unable to disembark and destroyed that the unit who trapped them would gain a pain token... but thats just an off hand opinion.

 

One note- if three DE units are in assault with some gardians, who flee, and are caught, do they all get pain tokens? Or atleast, all of them who rolled high enough to catch the enemy?

 

 

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere and I don't know is this was designers notes or random internet gibbering or even in the codex... in a case where multiple units kill a unit (say a multiple unit combat where the final kill is made with two squads attacking at the same I)... then KPs are spread across in an even manner and should they not be even then randomly apply them with the appropriate die... d2, d3 and so on.

 

Anyway whichever it is that seems like a fair plan.

[Iacton Qruze]

if multiple units are involved in an assault, you get one pain token per unit destroyed, and disperse them as evenly as possible between your units in the assault with power through pain.

 

now my question is, haemonculi have a lot of ways to "remove from play" models. do you think that should yield kill points? on one hand, it doesn't say they are killed or destroyed, but in the spirit of the game, if you got turned to glass by a hexrifle shot, or your mind got squished by the crucible of malediction, you're dead.

[Lord Melvin]

My dad plays DE, and I would say that if two squads kill a single unit, then you'd have to choose which one gets the token (one token per unit killed). Also, I don't think that tanks would count for tokens, as they are vehicles and therefore you wouldn't be able to get much pain from the crew. Plus, if you think about it fluffwise, then DE get their fix from the pain inflicted on living things. A tank doesn't really count as a living thing, and the explosion that kills the crew wouldn't last long enough for them to truly revel in it. So I'd confine it to soldiers on foot personally.

[Grey Mage]

now my question is, haemonculi have a lot of ways to "remove from play" models. do you think that should yield kill points? on one hand, it doesn't say they are killed or destroyed, but in the spirit of the game, if you got turned to glass by a hexrifle shot, or your mind got squished by the crucible of malediction, you're dead.

Id say anything that would cause you to gain a Kill Point in annihilation would probly count, as long as it could be attributed to the unit- remove from play is the same thing as 'dead' for most purposes.

[trefenwyd]

Played vs DE last weekend, don't have the book in front of me, but the DE player said that pain tokens were only gained through close combat, not shooting (something about needing to feel the souls being ripped out of the enemy and shooting not counting). Which is good sicne DE have plenty of ways to start the game with pain tokens on any unit they want.

[thade]

Sorry...for frame of reference, what is the benefit to a Pain Token? Are they temporary or last the rest of the game on whatever unit gets it? Is there a max number of them you can have on a unit? Do they all stack?

[ShinyRhino]

Sorry...for frame of reference, what is the benefit to a Pain Token? Are they temporary or last the rest of the game on whatever unit gets it? Is there a max number of them you can have on a unit? Do they all stack?

 

They are permanent after acquisition, and give the owning unit a cumulative collection of USRs based on how many they have.

 

1: Feel No Pain

2: Furious Charge

3+: Fearless

 

The only time you can lose a Pain Token is if an IC joins a unit. When he/she joins, the Pain Tokens are added together. So, if a Succubus with two pain tokens joins a unit of Wyches with one, the combined unit has FNP, Furious Charge, and Fearless. If the Succubus leaves, they tokens are split evenly, with the owner declaring where any spares go.