How to Kill Dark Eldar

[The Wunup Kid]

Been playing with a group and testing the DE fairly regularly, with lost of theorizing after games, my thoughts:

 

Null Zone, as mentioned, is fantastic. Not just for the flickerfield, but because Wyches have a CC invuln save that makes them absolutely fearsome.

 

Flickerfield is not as good as the night shield. Lately our DE player has been using just the shield.

 

Going first is a pretty big deal, at least in our group. Being able to knock down a couple raiders/ravagers/whatever while they're still in their deployment zone, and split up their army, matters. I had great success with an IC dread in a drop pod with two heavy flamers (but I'm also playing Salamanders) coming in on turn 1 and catching raiders bunched up behind cover.

 

My biggest worry is webway assault lists. To the effect of: 2-3 warrior squads in raiders with webway portals, 2 tricked out incubi squads, and the rest wyches. 3 webways spread across the battlefield means it could be very hard to avoid being assaulted by units coming out of reserves.

[raptor1199]

i dont really see why would anyone take shredders when you can take blaster instead?

[minigun762]

Is there anything in the DE codex that implies that the standard Chaos army comp of Daemon Princes, Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Obliterators will not be as viable?

[Resv]

@ Minigun:

A few things come to mind pretty quickly.

1) Transports. Just about every unit has access to on or the other and since they are open topped they can assault right out of them when they disembark. This means that knocking the Raiders and such out of the sky is difficult to do since you don't have near as much shooting as they do. Remember that Nightshields make rapid fire bolters 6 inches and pistols 6 inches. This is a BIG drag for all Marines period.

2) Poison shooting is going to absolutely ruin your Daemon Princes day. Since just about every unit has poison shots I would expect your princes to get torrented pretty quickly.

3) Numbers. Like it or not Warriors in both their elite and troop versions are dirt cheap. This really extends to the entire codex as they can take a ton of units in large point games. While the price of a Warrior is offset a little bit by the cost of Raiders and such they are still much cheaper than Marines for what they can do.

 

I don't think Marines are screwed by Dark Eldar! I do that that they are a completely different entity that players might not have really dealt with.

[Gearhead]

I just played two test games versus the Dark Eldar against one of our very good players (won the first BoLScon). I used a demi-company, which is not generally considered a competitive build. 2000 points. First was Basegrab and Dawn of War, second was kill points and Corners. List was as follows.

 

*Pedro

*Assault Terminators (5, 3 hammers, 2 claws)

-Crusader, Multi-Melta, Extra Armor

*Tactical Squad (10)

-Powerfist

-Flamer

-Missile Launcher

--Rhino, Extra Armor

*Tactical Squad (10)

-Powerfist

-Flamer

-Missile Launcher

--Rhino, Extra Armor

*Tactical Squad (10)

-CCW

-Plasmagun

-Plasmacannon

--Rhino

*Assault Squad (10)

-Powerfist

-Flamer (x2)

*Typhoon

*Devs (10)

-Missile Launcher (x4)

*Whirlwind

 

The first list was all Hellions all the time, five squads of 15, three ravagers, the Hellion HQ, and three Haemonculi.

 

His second List was five squads of nine Wyches, Power Weapons and Hydra Gauntlet in each, Haywires for everyone. Each Squad had a Haemonculus with various odd wargear. The important part is two webway portals and an Archangel of Pain. Two Parasite Engines and a Ravager, the engines coming through the webway portals. One unit of warriors with a Dark Lance acted as an anchor unit.

 

We called the first game at the start of my turn three. The Hellions don't have much anti tank or staying power, but they can make a hell of a first impression on infantry units. Meching up slaves them pretty well. The Ravagers took a chunk out of the Devs, but left three missile Launchers. The missile from the marines took a toll, wrecking one ravager and crippling another. We really could've gone on, but not killing the devs in another round of shooting really hurt. In my turn, two units of Hellions would have been bolter trapped, another flamed and assaulted, and a fourth terminatored, all of the units benefiting from Pedro. He saw that coming and called it; Dark Eldar simply cannot take a counterattack well.

 

The second fight was better, but the kicker was that I got first turn. That resulted in a crippled Ravager and two destroyed raiders. Pedro clipped a wych unit with the bombardment, proving once again that orbital bombardment is not that hot. Whirlwind takes a chunk out of a dropped unit. He accomplished nothing in his return shooting phase, but dropped two webway portals. In my turn, another raider falls, another wych unit gets cut up by the whirlwind. I will say that the FnP was useful, otherwise those Wych units would have been absolutely gone. On his turn, he move up some more, pins shots off the raider. Pain engines come in, one shoots the assault squad and fails to wound, one assaults a rhino and immobilizes it. Wyches assault the land raider, haywires do their thing, Pedro and the unit inside are pinned. Since it explodes, some wyches die.

 

The point is, things are dang fragile. One round of shooting downed one pain engine. The assault squad gets assaulted by on wych squad(the only squad to make it intact), still looses combat in two turns, even with the help of a pain engine. Said pain engine also dies in two combat rounds, due to powerfist and the FnP it had being useless against said fist. Even Pedro's unit, who got hit by the Archangel, won their combat against two squads of wyches with one casualty. All of these combats are with the re-roll wounds drugs. We can outlast these guys like nobody's business, we are not doomed. If I can beat a list like this with a list that's considered uncompetitive, you guys shouldn't have much trouble.

[Hellios]

Is there anything in the DE codex that implies that the standard Chaos army comp of Daemon Princes, Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Obliterators will not be as viable?

 

 

Poison... so meh if you are T6 or whatever... wiped out a brood of 3 carnies and they what 4-6 wounds?... + regenerate in two turns of shooting from two squads in raiders... missed with all the dark lances... and one of the units was slightly out of range on the first turn so over the two turns it was more like 2 1/5th of a squad shooting... grated he was pretty unlucky with some saves... but you have less wounds...

 

Plague marines... well posion helps... as does S5 AP3 Heavy 3 weapons... although if someone takes a lot of them it might effect their anti-tank... although anti-tank weapons will also kill PMs... Berzerkers... the problem with these is that you might not get the charge... and even if you do the DE may very well still go first and might carry enough PW to wipe you out or stop you doing enough damage that turn that they wipe you out in your turn... Oblits like the PMs... lots of AP2 or better fire... some of which causes ID...

 

Basically DE can kill everything you have... the question is more how the players uses them... and if you can take down the vehicles before they get to you... also what lists you see at big events... a list that will eat chaos may do bad against the other big lists so you might not see it it... as a rule of thumb DE like to fight small elite armies and cult troops and oblits help make Chaos armies small and elite... In theory chaos might be in trouble but until someone has tried a few games out I would hate to say... maybe if Jeske pops by he can run some of his test games and tell us how much trouble chaos will be against a good DE army.

[DerekLee688]

Nice to see my typhoons, rifleman, and mech are even more useful. I'm also glad that I don't need any more melta than I already do, because my main source of melta are bikes, and Codex:SM bikes aren't so hot in CC. Especialy if they lose the only CC attack they have due to some -1A equipment.

[Hellios]

Nice to see my typhoons, rifleman, and mech are even more useful. I'm also glad that I don't need any more melta than I already do, because my main source of melta are bikes, and Codex:SM bikes aren't so hot in CC. Especialy if they lose the only CC attack they have due to some -1A equipment.

 

I would have to double check the DE codex but most of the time when attacks are reduced they are reduced to 1 at the most... so if you have one attack it will have no effect. I would be worried about DE shooting if I had bikes... rather than the CC.

[Gearhead]

I'll echo Hellios here, It's the shooting that'll hurt. You'll bet wounded on 4s in shooting, but most things will wound you on sixes in combat. Melta is really not that necessary, it's absolute overkill against their vehicles. Even without the melta range, you're penning on 3s with +2 to the chart. Due to the new rulebook FAQ, should they go flat out, you'll kill the unit and everyone inside on a 2 on the damage chart (2+2=4, 4=immobilized, Flat out immobilized skimmer=destroyed, new ruling says passengers cannot disembark from flat out vehicles ever. Result; a 2 with a meltagun kills like, 190ish points with no way to save anything).

[Hellios]

I'll echo Hellios here, It's the shooting that'll hurt. You'll bet wounded on 4s in shooting, but most things will wound you on sixes in combat. Melta is really not that necessary, it's absolute overkill against their vehicles. Even without the melta range, you're penning on 3s with +2 to the chart. Due to the new rulebook FAQ, should they go flat out, you'll kill the unit and everyone inside on a 2 on the damage chart (2+2=4, 4=immobilized, Flat out immobilized skimmer=destroyed, new ruling says passengers cannot disembark from flat out vehicles ever. Result; a 2 with a meltagun kills like, 190ish points with no way to save anything).

 

Actually you are wrong unless they clarify this FAQ nothing has really changed from before the FAQ... The BBB says that when turn is mentioned it means player turn unless otherwise specified... So as you move flat out in your player turn... and they shoot in their turn... you won't be automatically destroyed as before... but like before should you take yourself out by rushing into terrain or say some of your own shooting scattering and hitting you... of if they have something that lets them shoot out of turn (Like mystics?)... this rule would apply. RAI you might be right but RAW things haven't changed... so unless they modify this DE are still ok.

[minigun762]

Is there anything in the DE codex that implies that the standard Chaos army comp of Daemon Princes, Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Obliterators will not be as viable?

 

 

Poison... so meh if you are T6 or whatever... wiped out a brood of 3 carnies and they what 4-6 wounds?... + regenerate in two turns of shooting from two squads in raiders... missed with all the dark lances... and one of the units was slightly out of range on the first turn so over the two turns it was more like 2 1/5th of a squad shooting... grated he was pretty unlucky with some saves... but you have less wounds...

 

Plague marines... well posion helps... as does S5 AP3 Heavy 3 weapons... although if someone takes a lot of them it might effect their anti-tank... although anti-tank weapons will also kill PMs... Berzerkers... the problem with these is that you might not get the charge... and even if you do the DE may very well still go first and might carry enough PW to wipe you out or stop you doing enough damage that turn that they wipe you out in your turn... Oblits like the PMs... lots of AP2 or better fire... some of which causes ID...

 

Basically DE can kill everything you have... the question is more how the players uses them... and if you can take down the vehicles before they get to you... also what lists you see at big events... a list that will eat chaos may do bad against the other big lists so you might not see it it... as a rule of thumb DE like to fight small elite armies and cult troops and oblits help make Chaos armies small and elite... In theory chaos might be in trouble but until someone has tried a few games out I would hate to say... maybe if Jeske pops by he can run some of his test games and tell us how much trouble chaos will be against a good DE army.

 

I just got the DE codex and that is about the same conclusion I came to. The old standards of T5/6 are mitigated by the poison weapons. FnP is still fairly useful but does take a slight hit. I don't think you're going to see Oblits go away but I personally like that the Dark Lances don't gain anything when firing at my Defilers and the 72" Battlecannon could care less about your shadowshield.

 

3) Numbers. Like it or not Warriors in both their elite and troop versions are dirt cheap. This really extends to the entire codex as they can take a ton of units in large point games. While the price of a Warrior is offset a little bit by the cost of Raiders and such they are still much cheaper than Marines for what they can do.

While I can't match their numbers, I do feel better that I tend to run CSMs over cult troops just to have those extra 2-3 guys per squad. More bodies gives me a better chance of surviving all their fancy weapons.

[Gearhead]

I'll echo Hellios here, It's the shooting that'll hurt. You'll bet wounded on 4s in shooting, but most things will wound you on sixes in combat. Melta is really not that necessary, it's absolute overkill against their vehicles. Even without the melta range, you're penning on 3s with +2 to the chart. Due to the new rulebook FAQ, should they go flat out, you'll kill the unit and everyone inside on a 2 on the damage chart (2+2=4, 4=immobilized, Flat out immobilized skimmer=destroyed, new ruling says passengers cannot disembark from flat out vehicles ever. Result; a 2 with a meltagun kills like, 190ish points with no way to save anything).

 

Actually you are wrong unless they clarify this FAQ nothing has really changed from before the FAQ... The BBB says that when turn is mentioned it means player turn unless otherwise specified... So as you move flat out in your player turn... and they shoot in their turn... you won't be automatically destroyed as before... but like before should you take yourself out by rushing into terrain or say some of your own shooting scattering and hitting you... of if they have something that lets them shoot out of turn (Like mystics?)... this rule would apply. RAI you might be right but RAW things haven't changed... so unless they modify this DE are still ok.

 

Looked at it again, the trouble is the word "Turn", which could be interpreted as whole turn or player turn. "Phase" might have been better wording, since only cruise missiles would be affected. The "Plane Crash" mentality really only makes sense for skimmers (or actual planes, like the Valk), but not for blood angel rhinos. Trukks actually get away with it due to ramshakle. This actually solved a question we had of Dark Eldar intentionally crashing into trees with Aethersails to forcibly disembark and throw Webway portals around, which struck us as incredibly goofy from a fluff standpoint.

 

That, however, is another topic. Back to Dark Eldar.

[Inquisitor Apropos]

This actually solved a question we had of Dark Eldar intentionally crashing into trees with Aethersails to forcibly disembark and throw Webway portals around, which struck us as incredibly goofy from a fluff standpoint.

 

That, however, is another topic. Back to Dark Eldar.

 

That's exactly what the recent FAQ was meant to prevent. Except, instead of trees, it's your Landraider that they're ramming with those Aethersails and the Shock Prow upgrade, and then assaulting the contents as everybody spills out onto the table.

[ashc]

I was wondering whether anyone had anything more specific to add to this, I'm looking at facing my mate's Dark Eldar army soon enough, but having mainly gone toe-to-toe with MEQs, it looks like quite a departure. I thought we may as well try and continue this rather than starting a new thread.

[DarkGuard]

I was wondering whether anyone had anything more specific to add to this, I'm looking at facing my mate's Dark Eldar army soon enough, but having mainly gone toe-to-toe with MEQs, it looks like quite a departure. I thought we may as well try and continue this rather than starting a new thread.

 

Do you know what sort of list you're going to play? Raider spam? Ravager spam? Both of the above spam?

 

Lots of Warriors? Or maybe a Wych army? Will Incubi be present? Maybe a mix?

 

Or will he use Reavers and Hellions?

 

Really, it's a complex answer. I could tell you to load up on Typhoons and Rifleman Dreads to blow the Raiders up, and flamers for the troops inside. But then you could face lots of Wracks, who don't care about flamers. Or lots of Hellions and Reavers, who aren't too fussed about autocannons.

 

If you're facing lots of dark lances a mech army might struggle, but if you play all foot the army will run circles around them, while Reavers can tear chunks out of your squads.

 

However, when I play Deldar, they tend to have lots of Raiders and light transports, so I keep my Rifleman and Typhoons, while advancing my Tactical squads midfield where they can bring their multi-meltas, and sometimes plasma guns to bear. Even with night shields your missiles and autocannons out range them, while flickerfields aren't that good. Seriously, if he's using flickerfields just drive a Libby with Null Zone into mid table. He's now re-rolling his 5++ saves on his vehicles.

 

Remember, Deldar hit hard but are wafer thin. Mount up, restrict his fire lanes, make him need to come to you. Weather the hits, and then hit back. Short of Incubi and maybe Wyches, if you charge Deldar you will knock them out in combat, especially Warriors. It requires clever play and planning, you simply cannot drive a TH/SS squad in Land Raider forward as it'll get lanced to death. Instead take it slow, keep your force together, and make him attack all of your force with all of his, splitting will only lead to those split elements getting surrounded and killed.

[ashc]

Thanks for the response, DarkGuard.

 

As far as I know, this is going to be his list:

 

HQ

 

Archon, Agoniser, Combat drugs, PGL, Shadow field

145pts

 

Haemonculus, Shattershard, Webway portal

100pts

 

Elites

 

6 Incubi

132pts

 

Troops

 

2x 10 Warriors, Shredder, Splinter cannon, Sybarite

2x 115pts

 

9 Warriors, Blaster, Sybarite

106pts

Raider, Flickerfield

70pts

 

10 Wyches, Shardnet and Impaler, Razorflails, Hekatrix, Agoniser

135pts

 

Fast Attack

 

10 Hellions, Helliarch, PGL, Venom blade

190pts

 

6 Reavers, 2 Blasters

162pts

 

Heavy Support

 

Ravager, Flickerfield

115pts

 

Talos Pain Engine, Additional Close combat weapon

115pts

 

Exactly 1500pts

 

Which is a fairly hybrid list, I'm assuming perhaps one warrior squad can hold a home objective whilst if its not in a raider, then its going to deploy via Webway Portal.

 

The general tactic i'm getting looks like its 'shoot the quick stuff fast!' which makes sense. He had another list that was heavier on raiders/ravagers (and probably a bit more competitive to be honest). If the Haemonculi's raider can be dropped quickly then it neutralises the portal threat quickly, and then the only other major annoyance is probably incubi. I think marines can hold their own against most everything else. I would appreciate some recommendations on builds for tac squads, and units that people have found to be particularly effective vs. dark eldar.

[DarkGuard]

With this list you sort of want to be in transports to make it harder for those Reavers and combat units to get to you. With only one Ravager and Raider, it shouldn't be too hard to drop them before they get into range themselves, remember they only have a 36" range whilst most of our long-range anti-tank is 48" range. If you ground the webway portal his reserves won't be much better off than running on from his table edge.

 

As you've said the Incubi will be a problem in combat, but don't underestimate Hellions, they can be quite tough as my Sternguard found out. I'm not convinced by the Wyches though, they don't tend to be too good. Remember to shoot the Incubi, not let them assault you.

 

As for Tactical squads, I'd consider flamers for those fragile troops, and either multi-meltas if you want to take midfield, or a heavy bolter or missile launcher if you want to sit backfield. The missile launcher will take out the Raider's, as will the heavy bolter, but it'll deal with the infantry better. Remember that if the Reavers turbo boost they won't get a save from flamers or dragonfire rounds and be wounded on 4s, so make sure you have some cover ignoring weapons.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I strongly suggest a Null Zone Librarian. Whether its the vehicle shields, an archon's shadow field, or the 4+ Dodge on Wyches, the Dark Eldar rely heavily on invulnerable saves. Take those away and you're back on top.

[ashc]

Thanks for the suggestions. Some summaries for others then:

 

- Units with transports for protection are worth taking.

- Librarians with null zone, worth their weight in gold.

- Cover-ignoring weaponry is worth taking in some form.

- Try to avoid 'soft' units; they give up easy pain tokens.

- Long-ranged high ROF weapons to take out transports; autocannons are a good call.

- Missile Launchers give versatility to hit both transports and then fire upon the troops contained within.

 

Any more to add?

[DarkGuard]

If you're feeling particularly daring you could always use a storm shield unit of some kind (either Hammernators or a Command/Vanguard squad) to "absorb" any charges from Incubi models. If you get luck you should have a few models left and then hit them hard. That being said, hitting them in shooting is preferred, and for that reason I'd suggest Avenger on the Libby, if you get it off you're slaughtering Incubi on 2s.

[minigun762]

Just to add to this, some of the standard combo and tactics I'm running across in various forums and theorycrafting.

 

1) 4x Trueborn with 4x Blasters in a Raider or Venom.

Basically your typical fast moving tank buster. Disposable, cheap and effective.

 

2) 3x with 3x Dark Lance Ravagers with Flickerfields

Until they get more plastic models for the heavy slots, expect to see this in damn near every DE list. 9 dark lances = 6 hits = 2-3 hits against anything with armor. The flickerfield will be more useful then the Nightshield as most long range anti-tank will still be able to hit the Ravager even with the range penalty.

 

3) Haemoculus with various weapons

Mostly these guys will be put in Wych squads or other units to give them that free pain token as everything will be much more durable with FnP. I've actually seen these taken as HQs more frequently then Archons.

[Cmdr Shepard]

3) Haemoculus with various weapons

Mostly these guys will be put in Wych squads or other units to give them that free pain token as everything will be much more durable with FnP. I've actually seen these taken as HQs more frequently then Archons.

 

I played several games with and agaist Dark Eldar and I can say it is a very appreciated choice if you are looking for an increase in DE endurance. However they don't posses Fleet rule, thus the fast wych squads cannot perform a run before charging.

If your opponent put a Haemonculus inside a wych squad it will become slower allowing you to concentrate fire. Remember S6 weapon instant kill DE denying FNP.

There is, however, a sublte DE tactic. The Haemonculus could abbadon the squad leaving the token behind. This will let wyches use FNP but he will become an easy target.

Currently I'm playing GK and I had a match against Haemonculus-led DE army. FNP is not useful when you are wounded by power/force weapons :(

 

Archon has some interesting tricks. Shadows field is very unpredictable but if you are lucky and don't roll 1 he can withstand any sort of attack. However when he failed the first save he is often istant killed, at least that's happened very frequently when I played with or against DE.

 

When you face an Archon you have to choose if concentrate attacks on him or killing his squad and destroy him via sweeping. If you can concentrate your ranged fire power feel free to do.

An Archon usually travel on a raider/venom, even if he carries a webway portal. Stop the rider (a not difficult task) and he may remain in the open field.

[DarkGuard]

Of course the problem for Wyches of losing Fleet while with the Haemonculus isn't much of a problem when you're in a Raider :rolleyes:.

 

The other thing I'd like to point out is that some Codices will do better than others. For example, in the idea of S6 weaponry nullifying FnP, C:SM doesn't have a lot of this widespread throughout the Codex, while Grey Knights and Blood Angels do. Grey Knights can have 2-4 guys per squad carrying a S6 heavy flamer or a S7 mobile assault cannon! O and of course the psybolt heavy bolter Razorback. And with army wide power weapons Dark Eldar should really forget about FnP. Blood Angel lists can field a large amount of cheap assault cannons in their troop choices, not bad really. Unfortunately, some armies like C:SM and C:SW (and C:CSM I suppose) don't get such ready access to cheap S6 weaponry. Such weaponry tends to come from Land Raiders, as often Land Speeders don't take assault cannons due to cost, and las plas is preferred on Razorbacks because of cost and range. Dreadnoughts meanwhile tend to take autocannons, and while these would do, the fact is that we're using them against their transports and not their troops. So in this instance plasma really comes into its own, as do flamers for negating FnP and cover saves respectively.

 

Of course, I'm not saying C:SM is weak to Dark Eldar, quite the opposite. We can get a lot more long-range anti-tank and bodies onto the ground than Grey Knights, while most Blood Angels armies tend to go for Assault units with FnP, which melt under Incubi anyway. It's just that we have very different ways to take them out. Blood Angels and Grey Knights may use S6+ weaponry, but Marines tend ton focus on amount of shots most of the time. <_<

 

EDIT: minigun762, some of your units there are nasty. I'd never thought of the Kabalite Trueborn blaster spam before, but in a Venom that could be nasty, will have to tell my friend, who coincidently used to play triple dark lance Ravagers, but he prefers disintigrators now. Still leaves the night shields on as well.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Of course the problem for Wyches of losing Fleet while with the Haemonculus isn't much of a problem when you're in a Raider ^_^.

The only raider's issue is its AV. Even a common bolter have the chance to stun it. Beside raiders offer another advantage to us Space Marine (I consider myself mainly an Imperium player :) ): the offer easy kill points. If every close combat dark eldar units travel on a raider you can score 4/5 kill points before the melee slaughter begins, if you are the proper weapons to achieve it.

 

The other thing I'd like to point out is that some Codices will do better than others. For example, in the idea of S6 weaponry nullifying FnP, C:SM doesn't have a lot of this widespread throughout the Codex, while Grey Knights and Blood Angels do. Grey Knights can have 2-4 guys per squad carrying a S6 heavy flamer or a S7 mobile assault cannon! O and of course the psybolt heavy bolter Razorback. And with army wide power weapons Dark Eldar should really forget about FnP. Blood Angel lists can field a large amount of cheap assault cannons in their troop choices, not bad really. Unfortunately, some armies like C:SM and C:SW (and C:CSM I suppose) don't get such ready access to cheap S6 weaponry. Such weaponry tends to come from Land Raiders, as often Land Speeders don't take assault cannons due to cost, and las plas is preferred on Razorbacks because of cost and range. Dreadnoughts meanwhile tend to take autocannons, and while these would do, the fact is that we're using them against their transports and not their troops. So in this instance plasma really comes into its own, as do flamers for negating FnP and cover saves respectively.

 

Of course, I'm not saying C:SM is weak to Dark Eldar, quite the opposite. We can get a lot more long-range anti-tank and bodies onto the ground than Grey Knights, while most Blood Angels armies tend to go for Assault units with FnP, which melt under Incubi anyway. It's just that we have very different ways to take them out. Blood Angels and Grey Knights may use S6+ weaponry, but Marines tend ton focus on amount of shots most of the time. ;)

 

I played DE from their release to GK release, with a Blood Angels "interlude", and I was very pleased with them.

They pose a significant threat to Space Marine armies. I played mostly against Space Wolves and Blood Angels and I lost only once. The rest was a mixture of victories and draws. If they play fast and take any cover advantage they are nasty but they rarely can win a firefight but they are extremely qualified in killing standard space marines in CC. Especially Incubi.

I strongly agree about GK: they have a lot of anti-DE weapons. I don't play against very experienced opponents often but my GK scored a glorious victory against DE in the only match they played against them. Well my opponet nearly sent reavers to a sucidal task. He made them to pass over my Paladin squd, landing at less than 5" from them. I suffered only a couple of wounds with no losses one and next turn the DE bikers were just a memory.

If a DE player make a mistake like that it's our duty to retaliate immediatly.

[DarkGuard]

Dark Eldar destroying Marines? Really? :D

 

Nah I believe it can happen. Odd thing was that old Codex I struggled to beat Dark Eldar. New Codex comes out, I haven't lost to them with my Marines, and that includes the store's best player who took Deldar to GT. Beat him to win the store's 40k tournament, and ended on the top of the pyramid structure with two Deldar players sitting underneath me. I think Deldar should struggle against Marines more because Marines can still field lots of cheap unit, and lots of cheap long-range anti-transport which wreck their skimmers. Then again, I've only played against Raider heavy armies, you might play something completely different.