How to Kill Dark Eldar

[minigun762]

EDIT: minigun762, some of your units there are nasty. I'd never thought of the Kabalite Trueborn blaster spam before, but in a Venom that could be nasty, will have to tell my friend, who coincidently used to play triple dark lance Ravagers, but he prefers disintigrators now. Still leaves the night shields on as well.

 

Yeah I forgot to mention that the general idea with the Haemonculus+Wyches is to give the Wyches the token and then go liquiefy something.

 

Beastmasters also have the potential to be a real pain just because they can play the wound allocation game SO well between the multi-wound models and the models with Inv saves. They could end up being a really good tarpit and counter deathstar unit so read up on their rules if you can.

 

Most players I know are going heavy on Wyches as they're easier to use and still very deadly. Warriors are not bad for support but people are moving away from them as Dark Lance spammers and they get competition from the Trueborns I already mentioned. Best warrior loadout seems to be 10 guys in a Raider (Dark Lance) with Blaster/Splinter Cannon for mobile shooting thats good against most anything.

 

I honestly feel that Dark Eldar will punish people who rely on small armies of elites as they can take out those guys so easily. Where they seem to suffer a bit is against target saturation and number of bodies.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Dark Eldar destroying Marines? Really? :D

 

Nah I believe it can happen. Odd thing was that old Codex I struggled to beat Dark Eldar. New Codex comes out, I haven't lost to them with my Marines, and that includes the store's best player who took Deldar to GT. Beat him to win the store's 40k tournament, and ended on the top of the pyramid structure with two Deldar players sitting underneath me. I think Deldar should struggle against Marines more because Marines can still field lots of cheap unit, and lots of cheap long-range anti-transport which wreck their skimmers. Then again, I've only played against Raider heavy armies, you might play something completely different.

DE are very "chance sensitive". Every failed roll is a step towards defeat. I would never play DE in a tournament: it's too risky. Wyches are dressed with a swimsuit like armour. They are quite skilled in CC but they wound SM on 5+ and each squad can only use a single power weapon. Agonizer wounds on 4+ (it costs 20 points).

 

Beastmasters have a nice potential, as minigun762 noticed. I made a list built around them but I don't want to spend about 600 euros for a small collection of metal zoo beastes. with the same amount of money I can buy a lot of interesting models/vehicles for my GK or even start a new SM army. Honestly, they still remain metal zoo beasts.

Beside even though Beastmasters may appear like a DE death star they are not ustoppable, so I'm not inclined to invest so many resources in building my metal zoo ;) .

Just my opinion.

I'm curious to see how they perform. I may ask some of my friends to paly a Beastmasters based list against my GK. They will have to use a lot of proxies, though.

 

Back on strategic issues: DE may be fun but I never used them for competitive play and I don't plan to do it. I may be wrong but in a competive game enviroment I want something not so "chance sensitive".

[Hellios]

Back on strategic issues: DE may be fun but I never used them for competitive play and I don't plan to do it. I may be wrong but in a competive game enviroment I want something not so "chance sensitive".

 

Enjoy playing Imperial Guard :P

[Machnarl]

Hmmmm....I have lost my share of games against DE with my Blood Angels.

 

Worst threats in the DE codex to me is:

 

5 x Beastmaster

6 x Razorwing Flock

10 x Khymerae

 

Cheap, resilient, hard-hitting and worst of all fast.

 

Second must be the Razorwing Jetfighter.

 

It's missiles tears infantry apart.

 

- Peter

[Machnarl]

Hmmmm....I have lost my share of games against DE with my Blood Angels.

 

Worst threats in the DE codex to me is:

 

5 x Beastmaster

6 x Razorwing Flock

10 x Khymerae

 

Cheap, resilient, hard-hitting and worst of all fast.

 

Second must be the Razorwing Jetfighter.

 

It's missiles tears infantry apart.

 

- Peter

[Machnarl]

Hmmmm....I have lost my share of games against DE with my Blood Angels.

 

Worst threats in the DE codex to me is:

 

5 x Beastmaster

6 x Razorwing Flock

10 x Khymerae

 

Cheap, resilient, hard-hitting and worst of all fast.

 

Second must be the Razorwing Jetfighter.

 

It's missiles tears infantry apart.

 

- Peter

[Cmdr Shepard]

Hmmmm....I have lost my share of games against DE with my Blood Angels.

 

Worst threats in the DE codex to me is:

 

5 x Beastmaster

6 x Razorwing Flock

10 x Khymerae

 

Cheap, resilient, hard-hitting and worst of all fast.

 

Second must be the Razorwing Jetfighter.

 

It's missiles tears infantry apart.

 

- Peter

The Beasts are indeed one of the most threatning units in DE condex. Razorwing is an "owe-inspiring" unit but it has a raider armour. It wouldn't be diffcult to put it out businees. Tons of interesting weapons that risk to fall into pieces at a couple of medium S weapons.

[Frogstar168]

I have had great success with the 10 man Terminator with 2 x Cyclones unit against Dark Eldar. My current list runs them with a Libby and a lot of long-range fire support to knock down raiders/ravagers. They always give as good as they get; most of the time, better. My success has come from spending the first couple of turns just shooting everything in sight, even if it has a cover/invuln save. The Termies tend to draw a lot of fire (and survive most of it) and assault, which leaves the rest of my force free to mop up (couple of tac squads, couple of shooty dreads, combi-pred, typhoon speeder).

 

-my experience, anyway-

[BAjim]

@ Minigun:

A few things come to mind pretty quickly.

1) Transports. Just about every unit has access to on or the other and since they are open topped they can assault right out of them when they disembark. This means that knocking the Raiders and such out of the sky is difficult to do since you don't have near as much shooting as they do. Remember that Nightshields make rapid fire bolters 6 inches and pistols 6 inches. This is a BIG drag for all Marines period.

 

 

So what distance can a Raider move and the troops inside still disembark and assault? Surely there's a limit of 18 inches? :P

 

Similar question: If the Raider moved the maximum distance (18 or 24?) can the Troops onboard still get to shoot?

[Tanhausen]

So what distance can a Raider move and the troops inside still disembark and assault? Surely there's a limit of 18 inches? :D

 

Like any other assault vehicle: 30 cm (12 inches).

 

 

Similar question: If the Raider moved the maximum distance (18 or 24?) can the Troops onboard still get to shoot?

 

If you move more than 6 inches, you can't shoot with the passangers.

[Corby]

I have had great success with the 10 man Terminator with 2 x Cyclones unit against Dark Eldar. My current list runs them with a Libby and a lot of long-range fire support to knock down raiders/ravagers. They always give as good as they get; most of the time, better. My success has come from spending the first couple of turns just shooting everything in sight, even if it has a cover/invuln save. The Termies tend to draw a lot of fire (and survive most of it) and assault, which leaves the rest of my force free to mop up (couple of tac squads, couple of shooty dreads, combi-pred, typhoon speeder).

 

-my experience, anyway-

 

The problem with infantry on foot is that dark eldar lists running 8 venoms will absolutly shred them. 96 poison shots a turn really cut through terminators. Not to mention still having to contend with blaster warriors in said venoms , trueborn with blasters in venoms , ravangers and helions ontop of that. Its basically functions as an army within an army.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

@ Minigun:

A few things come to mind pretty quickly.

1) Transports. Just about every unit has access to on or the other and since they are open topped they can assault right out of them when they disembark. This means that knocking the Raiders and such out of the sky is difficult to do since you don't have near as much shooting as they do. Remember that Nightshields make rapid fire bolters 6 inches and pistols 6 inches. This is a BIG drag for all Marines period.

 

 

So what distance can a Raider move and the troops inside still disembark and assault? Surely there's a limit of 18 inches? :P

 

Similar question: If the Raider moved the maximum distance (18 or 24?) can the Troops onboard still get to shoot?

 

Raider moves 12"

models deploy within 2" -> 1.999" to back of base

base is 1"

assault 6"

= 21"

[DarkGuard]

And don't forget that Deldar, proper Deldar, not Haemonculus stuff, have fleet, and therefore can also run and then assault, adding another D6" movement to the assault range.

[Pigeons]

i was toying with this earlier for something different. foot dark eldar :lol:

 

 

 

anyone think they'd have trouble with something like this?

 

 

 

 

HQ-

 

Haemonculus- 95 pts

Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Hexrifle

 

Haemonculus- 95 pts

Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Hexrifle

 

Haemonculus- 105 pts

Agoniser, Crucible of Malediction, Hexrifle

 

Elite-

 

5 Incubi- 245 pts

Klaivex, Demiklaives, Murderous Assault, Onslaught, Venom, Splinter Cannon, Nightshields

 

Troops-

 

20 Kabalite Warriors- 215 pts

Shredder, 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite

 

20 Kabalite Warriors- 215 pts

Shredder, 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite

 

20 Kabalite Warriors- 270 pts

Blaster, 2x Dark Lance, Sybarite, Blast Pistol

 

8 Wracks- 120 pts

Liquifier Gun, Acothyst, Agoniser

 

Fast Attack-

 

5 Hellions- 125 pts

Helliarch, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Agoniser

 

5 Hellions- 125 pts

Helliarch, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Agoniser

 

5 Hellions- 125 pts

Helliarch, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Agoniser

 

Heavy Support-

 

Talos Pain Engine- 130 pts

Twin-Linked Liquifier Gun, Additional Close Combat Weapon, Twin-Linked Heat Lance

 

Talos Pain Engine- 135 pts

Chain-flails, Additional Close Combat Weapon, Twin-Linked Heat Lance

 

 

Total: 2,000 points

 

 

 

 

 

each haemoncolus goes with a warrior squad, the three squads form up a gun line with the dark lance squad slightly further forward to pop tanks, the left and right warrior squads advance and fire while the middle squad stays put to fire it's dark lances every turn.(if i was playing a shooty list, i'd march them forward for an eventual massed charge, if i was playing an assault list i'd just hold them in place as a gun line and try to shoot them to death before they closed with me)

 

 

wracks sit on a back objective and dissuade attacks with their liquifier and agoniser

 

 

talos both go up a single flank together and basically swamp anything they encounter. one flames the unit they're going to assault to thin it out, then the other's chain flails help out in the following assault.

 

 

hellions harrass, charging into combat and then running out again as many times as they can before dying, they're mostly sacrificial

 

 

and of course the incubi just charge the biggest and baddest unit and beat it around haha

 

 

 

 

anyway i imagine a drop pod list would beat this list around pretty good, but it seems solid to me against most other army types.

[Laughingdagger]

I wouldn't be so sure about charging big baddies with the incubi. They're S3 and T3 with 3+ armor yes, but big or baddass baddies will eat them like most T3 units.

[DarkGuard]

I wouldn't be so sure about charging big baddies with the incubi. They're S3 and T3 with 3+ armor yes, but big or baddass baddies will eat them like most T3 units.

 

Do remember that Incubi have klaives which gives them +1S, while their Sergeant can have demi-klaives which gives him +2S or +2A, so even against some of the bigger enemies they are still a threat, especially as they have a high initiative and good amount of attacks.

[Corby]

i was toying with this earlier for something different. foot dark eldar ;)

 

 

 

anyone think they'd have trouble with something like this?

 

 

 

 

HQ-

 

Haemonculus- 95 pts

Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Hexrifle

 

Haemonculus- 95 pts

Agoniser, Liquifier Gun, Hexrifle

 

Haemonculus- 105 pts

Agoniser, Crucible of Malediction, Hexrifle

 

Elite-

 

5 Incubi- 245 pts

Klaivex, Demiklaives, Murderous Assault, Onslaught, Venom, Splinter Cannon, Nightshields

 

Troops-

 

20 Kabalite Warriors- 215 pts

Shredder, 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite

 

20 Kabalite Warriors- 215 pts

Shredder, 2x Splinter Cannon, Sybarite

 

20 Kabalite Warriors- 270 pts

Blaster, 2x Dark Lance, Sybarite, Blast Pistol

 

8 Wracks- 120 pts

Liquifier Gun, Acothyst, Agoniser

 

Fast Attack-

 

5 Hellions- 125 pts

Helliarch, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Agoniser

 

5 Hellions- 125 pts

Helliarch, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Agoniser

 

5 Hellions- 125 pts

Helliarch, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Agoniser

 

Heavy Support-

 

Talos Pain Engine- 130 pts

Twin-Linked Liquifier Gun, Additional Close Combat Weapon, Twin-Linked Heat Lance

 

Talos Pain Engine- 135 pts

Chain-flails, Additional Close Combat Weapon, Twin-Linked Heat Lance

 

 

Total: 2,000 points

 

 

 

 

 

each haemoncolus goes with a warrior squad, the three squads form up a gun line with the dark lance squad slightly further forward to pop tanks, the left and right warrior squads advance and fire while the middle squad stays put to fire it's dark lances every turn.(if i was playing a shooty list, i'd march them forward for an eventual massed charge, if i was playing an assault list i'd just hold them in place as a gun line and try to shoot them to death before they closed with me)

 

 

wracks sit on a back objective and dissuade attacks with their liquifier and agoniser

 

 

talos both go up a single flank together and basically swamp anything they encounter. one flames the unit they're going to assault to thin it out, then the other's chain flails help out in the following assault.

 

 

hellions harrass, charging into combat and then running out again as many times as they can before dying, they're mostly sacrificial

 

 

and of course the incubi just charge the biggest and baddest unit and beat it around haha

 

 

 

 

anyway i imagine a drop pod list would beat this list around pretty good, but it seems solid to me against most other army types.

 

Not that scary if I'm honest , it only has two long ranged anti-tank weapons ( two dark lances ) for busting open tanks (Both of which are in the same squad , so thats 1 tank at best a turn) , the entier army bar the helions and incubi isn't very fast and the rest of the army is entierly composed of anti-infantry shooting. While this list could certainly hurt a horde army ( Thats alot of poison shots after all) , I have difficultly seeing how it would hurt a mech'ed up army (That is an awful lot of bodies in cover with feel no pain however.) . While Dark Footdar is certainly a possible build ( webway portal dark footdar with a little mech can be very scary) , with the right anti-tank capability it can be scary.

[tmonster]

Dark Eldar can be devastating against an unwary enemy, I myself am a DE player and know most of our weaknesses from my own experiences....

1. We struggle against full mech armies.

2. To make a competitive army you need to forgo most AI weapons to use blasters and dark lances.

3. Once the planes go down the infantry tends to just fall dead to the ground.

4. Wyches have a bigger reputation then they really earn themselves.

 

So SM players

A few hints:

No infantry (so nothing on foot)

No bikes (poison kill high toughness)

Lots of vehicles

Position your units in a smart way. Remember 36" movement of heatlance reavers and razorwing jetfighters.

Cover the rears of all tanks.

Don't spread out your army.

[Muctar]

Dark Eldar can be devastating against an unwary enemy, I myself am a DE player and know most of our weaknesses from my own experiences....

1. We struggle against full mech armies.

2. To make a competitive army you need to forgo most AI weapons to use blasters and dark lances.

3. Once the planes go down the infantry tends to just fall dead to the ground.

4. Wyches have a bigger reputation then they really earn themselves.

 

So SM players

A few hints:

No infantry (so nothing on foot)

No bikes (poison kill high toughness)

Lots of vehicles

Position your units in a smart way. Remember 36" movement of heatlance reavers and razorwing jetfighters.

Cover the rears of all tanks.

Don't spread out your army.

All very good points. I did this in my last game against DE and crushed my opponent's army, barring 4 Warriors, while only losing a single rhino and vindicator. If the Ravagers and Raiders don't manage to pop your transports, pop theirs, disembark, and rapid fire the contents to oblivion.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

People are getting Footdar to work, from the outdated C:Eldar.

 

I would think that Deldar could do something as good as or better than C:Eldar.

 

Even if FootDeldar are only 'average' at best, by thinking them as lolzors, you are actually making them better than that, by underestimating them.

 

A mounted knight can die to a peasant with a dagger, because even though the peasant should get pwned, the knight was an arrogant chap and that allowed the peasant to stick the dagger in him.

 

Just a friendly warning :lol:

[Something Wycked]

Yep, imagine a shooty-oriented DEldar force who took cover in a bunch of terrain and just shot at you while you approached, with a few counter-assault units hanging around to help out where needed- basically played as Astartes but with a cover save instead of an armor save.

 

I'm sure there's other options but I'm not familiar enough with DEldar to point them out :)

[DarkGuard]

People are getting Footdar to work, from the outdated C:Eldar.

 

I would think that Deldar could do something as good as or better than C:Eldar.

 

Even if FootDeldar are only 'average' at best, by thinking them as lolzors, you are actually making them better than that, by underestimating them.

 

A mounted knight can die to a peasant with a dagger, because even though the peasant should get pwned, the knight was an arrogant chap and that allowed the peasant to stick the dagger in him.

 

Just a friendly warning ;)

 

Marshal Wilhelm speaks the truth. There's a player down my store who uses Footdar and it's actually an incredibly tough and challenging game, in fact I've found it easier against mech Eldar at times, so be careful.

[Corby]

People are getting Footdar to work, from the outdated C:Eldar.

 

I would think that Deldar could do something as good as or better than C:Eldar.

 

Even if FootDeldar are only 'average' at best, by thinking them as lolzors, you are actually making them better than that, by underestimating them.

 

A mounted knight can die to a peasant with a dagger, because even though the peasant should get pwned, the knight was an arrogant chap and that allowed the peasant to stick the dagger in him.

 

Just a friendly warning :D

 

Yes , I know footdar builds can win games , however the dark footdar list that was posted in this thread struggles against mech (2 Dark lances for long range anti-tank , rest of the army has poisoned weaponary) as I pointed out. A Webway portal Dark eldar build or A dark footdar build with enough anti-tank to deal with mechanized armies can be tough to play against.

[Master Melta]

I thought I would wiegh in. In my local shop, the toughest player is a seasoned 10 year DE veteran. I have recented ascended to his main rival in local small tourneys since I typically am in 2nd in the last game of the day and he is in 1st. That being said, he trounces me handily every time. It makes the event a learning experience and I haven't had a good chance to apply what I have learned to date. That means this is theory but it should apply. I don't like metalisting to face opponents however, I think altering a list to ajust to an army, while maintaining a well rounded force is sometimes necessary.

 

First let's talk about units. These are what I think you should look out for and why. They aren't necessarily in order but I am listing the scariest ones up top.

 

Venoms

Reguardless of contents, the venoms themselves are pretty much the most threatening thing to mech-less marines in the list, at range. These little guys are fast, and can dish out 12 shots a turn, at BS4 and 36 inch range. There should be at least 4 of these and sometimes 6 in really scarey DE lists. That's 48-72 shots a turn, and if they get first turn, if the DE player uses them in unison with Ravagers(The next entry) your marines will be whittled down to ineffectiveness very quickly. These are especially effective nullifying small spearheads of low body count models on foot.

 

Summary:

 

Fast, highly offensive to troops, can carry troops or elites with S8 AP2 guns, can take Night Shields (-6 to your shooting distance) and flickerfields. Despite all these advantages, taking them out, assuming you get to shoot at them, isn't hard since they are av 10 and still open topped. I plan on making these my first priority targets in future games.

 

Ravagers

These are straight forward gunships that can threaten anything from AV10-14. 3 Shots means weapon destroyed results don't matter. AV 11 on front and side means bolters are no good here. Salvos from these are likely going to target transports or things that can hurt back like las cannon toting vehicles of all sorts.

 

Summary, Fast, anti-armor LR wreckers. AV 11 makes them tougher and they carry all the defensive options of venoms. Still open topped.

 

Beast Packs

 

These are fast close combat overwhelmers that are tough to kill with shooting, mainly due to the amount of wounds the razorwings have, and the amount of kymeras(sp?) you have to kill before heavy weapons effect said razorwings.

 

Wyches, Wracks These guys are in Raiders so they are threatening first turn.

 

So, those are the things I have faced with my marines and faired poorly against.

 

No longer!

 

My counter, while remaining true to my core is pretty simple. Out shoot them early and don't run anything that is a pointsink/deathstar/lose it and lose. The DE are good at taking out high armor threats, so instead of giving them one or two of those, I plan on saturating the field with bodies and long range guns. I suppose, space marine gun line is what I am talking about.

 

Somthing like this:

 

Calgar(to boost leadership of the infantry heavy list and provide SOME Close combat)

 

A couple of tactical squads with flamers and multi-meltas for mid range and multi-army threat.

Tactical Terminators for CLM and as well as all rounder threat.

2 x sternguard x5 with 2 las cannons with TLLC Razorbacks

Devistator squad with 4 x ML and a TLLC Razorback

 

Likely another tactical squad thrown in and a MotF with Conversion Beamer. If you have the points and can get the MotF, a dread or two with a TLLC would be nice. Also for all those Rhinos and Razorbacks, HKMs have unlimited range with null night shields.

 

You want all your static heavy weapons to be 48 inch range. Multi-meltas, assalt cannons, heavy bolters, melta guns, etc, just won't cut it enmass without deepstriking. You want as many 48inch threats, than cannot be nulled out with shaken or weapon destroyed by a single shot.

 

That's my plan.

 

MM