Help against Death Guard

[Kanis]

Comrades, I require your aid. I fought against the vile Death Guard legion today, and it was awful. My army was taken apart turn by turn and I barely returned any damage at all, one of my worst games ever. I had slightly bad rolling for armor saves, but it was mostly just being overpowered. It was a smaller game, next time it's full 1850 at least...

 

He had:

Daemon Prince with Mark of Nurgle

Dreadnought with two combat arms

Vindicator

3 Squads of Plague marines with rhino's

 

I had:

Librarian with Shield and Sword

2 Tactical Squads with Rhino's

Assault Squad with Sanguinary Priest

Death company unit

Sanguinary Guard unit

Furioso Dreadnought with Blood Talons.

 

It felt like no matter how many rounds of bolters and combats against the Plague Marines, they never die! I have plasma guns and Pistols, but cover saves him anyway. The Daemon prince has toughness SIX!? It was a very moral breaking game for me as unit by unit I was routed and killed because I couldn't even phase it. I am asking for any ideas or experience against these vile things, it would greatly be appreciated.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Equip the Tactical Squads with Lascannons so that you can shred his Rhinos from anywhere; talon dreads and Sanguinary Guard should be able to slaughter the Plague Marines after that. Big monsters like Daemon Princes are best taken out by Power Fists or, if possible, Thunder Hammers; the Death Company might be best for this, since they can be equipped with a wide variety of powerful stuff. Actually, as long as you hold back and let him come to you )even with your assaulting elements), it looks like you should be fine as long as you can take out his vehicles from a distance with the tacticals. Again, lascannons recommended.

 

[/theoryhammer]

[TheMouth]

Stay in rhinos/razorbacks...zoom away 12" and shoot... take the SWORD OF AWESOME ...psychic power of course...Death Company are Strength 5 on the charge and WS 5...so you would need 3s and 4s in hth...so that should help you out if you hit them first. Also...bring a whirlwind...that S5 template is pretty nice. Thats about all I can really offer advice wise.

[BrotherMoses]

Their foul bargain with their dark masters has given these marines the ability to weather unholy amounts of fire before being properly cleansed.

 

I suggest bringing the trustworthy lascannon's to bear against them possibly in coordination with a Vindicator pattern tank. I would consider dropping either the Furioso, DC, or Sanguard if you need points.

 

Death Guard often hide their rotten stench by lurking in foetid swamps where cover is profuse. Plan for this and be wary.

[Grey Mage]

Where are your powerweapons, and your powerfists? Furious charge allows you to wound on a 4+, better than anyone else. You yourself can have feel no pain and be almost as tough as they- moreso on that sanguinairy gaurd unit.

 

Looks like a 1500pt game to me. Whats your DC got, how strong are they? Details man, details!

[skawolf]

Plague marines are tough to kill, Rhinos on the otherhand are not that tough to kill. Pop his rhinos! a death company army that has to walk to you when you have fast vehicles and jump packs is just going to be an army full of sad nuglelites.

 

Don't know how many points you are working with here though, so hard to give more advice.

[shatter]

Details man, details!

 

Yeah... it's often the little bits that add up to win.

[Leonaides]

target priority- kill the vindi before you close with him. Then pop rhino's. Then start firing at his dread if its a viable target. Sang priest should be near the sang guard to make the most of their power weapons. Your assault squad wants a power fist, drop plas pistols if needed to achieve this. As his rhino units are forced out, surround and charge them. You want to wipe them out on the charge while you're still s5. The dp can be tarpitted by your assault squad, he wont kill enough to stop your pf attacking, and then he starts to be vulnerable to a charge from the sang guard. You should have the mobility to choose the combats, and you need to separate his army and attack his flanks to cut down on his ability to support his troops with other units even further.

[the jeske]

chaos doesnt realy scale well in games over 1750 pts. double that if he wants to use nurgle only models.

[Kanis]

It was a 1500 point game, on the spot for his sake.

 

Librarian with Sword/Shield powers.

Death Company x5 with two powerswords, one powerfist. Drop Pod.

x2 10 man Tactical squad armed with plasmaguns, missile launchers, powerfists and plasma pistols. In Rhinos

x1 10 man Assault squad armed with two meltaguns, infernus pistol and powersword. Accompanied with Sanguinary priest with powersword, jump pack.

Furioso Dreadnought with blood talons

Sanguinary Guard armed with one powerfist, one infernus pistol.

 

I felt it was mostly either my mis-use or mis-deployment of the units, combined with bad rolls for key things like armor penetration or powerfists against the Prince. I'm still new to this army, so tips on units are very welcome as well. Thanks for the help so far brothers, this is a serious matter of honor, and I will have my vengeance...

[nurglez]

I used to play with deathguard at 1500 points, and while they are very tough and resilient, the one thing they fear is power weapons.

 

feel no pain is added to the cost of plague marines, if you bypass that then all the extra points they cost is worthless.

 

Obviously depending on how terrain is set up and you are deployed effects the battle a lot, last time i played vs blood angels I totally wiped them out, after a few turns of manoeuvring.

 

you want to pop his rhinos at range, gun down his prince, and get your dread into combat with his troops. all this is easier said then done, but weight of fire will bring down a prince, and in combat a prince can only kill 5 models on the charge, and 4 after that.

 

his list looks similar to mine, though i had 1 prince, 4 squads, 3 rhinos, landraider and a vindicator.

[Kanis]

One other problem I was having against them, the Plague Marines carry Blight Grenades(?), and it was severing some much needed charge bonus attacks, I didn't much care for that ability of theirs...

 

I will make much better use of my priests furious charge bubble next time for sure, as many of you have pointed out, the extra strength changes a lot.

[Battle Brother Ardonis]

It is perhaps an idea to tailor an army load out to you playing style for example I like ripping everything apart with my bare hands so I've refined a list show that:

HQ

- Astorath 220pts

- Mephiston 250 pts

- Honor Guard with BC, Jump Packs, and 3 power weapons.

total 700pts

Troops

- 10 man tactical with power weapon and heavy bolter

- 10 man assault with power weapon

total 385pts

elites

- Furioso with blood talons

total 125 pts

fast

- Baal with flame storm and heavy flamers

total 140pts

heavy

- vindicator

total 145pts

army total of 1500 exactly. This army works well because pretty much no matter the set up it is possible to be in combat first turn which i always awesome.

[bulley]

BBA - That HQ looks incredibly scary but does leave you with a complete lack of a back field lol. But it really makes me want to test it, thought I'd defo run with x2 Baals rather than the vindy.

[Grey Mage]

It was a 1500 point game, on the spot for his sake.

 

Librarian with Sword/Shield powers.

Death Company x5 with two powerswords, one powerfist. Drop Pod.

x2 10 man Tactical squad armed with plasmaguns, missile launchers, powerfists and plasma pistols. In Rhinos

x1 10 man Assault squad armed with two meltaguns, infernus pistol and powersword. Accompanied with Sanguinary priest with powersword, jump pack.

Furioso Dreadnought with blood talons

Sanguinary Guard armed with one powerfist, one infernus pistol.

 

Your list looks pretty solid.... except for the DC- they look expensive, and somewhat fragile. How did they do? How did you use them?

 

I think, overall, I would drop them for a small assault squad and give your DP to the Furioso. Like say- dual lightning claws and a pair of Meltaguns... and use the last 5pts to give your Libby some Meltabombs- Unless he doesnt have a JP. The poor boy needs a jump pack since he cant effectively join the rhino squads.

[Kanis]

Thanks Grey Mage! It's good to know at least I didn't build a failing list; I agree on the Death Company, they weren't a real waste, they held an entire Death Guard squad for a few turns, but the Champions power weapon got them eventually and it wasn't worth their cost. I'd probably not use them in a small game again, for points sake. I'm going to give my Furioso their pod.

 

The part I'm considering instead of Death Company is to field a Devastator squad with heavy bolters and plasma cannons, putting the Librarian there to give them a little backbone.

[warpmechanic]

with Death guard you have to turn their strengths to weaknesses. high strength and transport elimination are a good start, but with blight grenades, you are hurting where blood angels are strongest. adding a moderate amount of shooting to your assaults will improve the numbers game in your favor, because no matter how good a save is, if you have to roll more often, your chances of failure increase. split your force into smaller task forces, with one tac and one assault squad ( or death company/sang guard)plus another unit in a support role. when deploying use a refused flank, and destroy each squad before engaging another.

[Kanis]

Thanks for the tips everyone, it's all really important and I'm going to get a rematch against him in the next two days, so I'm working hard to be sure I don't give him any weak leg to pick at. I think my big issue is speed versus mobility. I'm moving out too fast to engage, and not using my mobility the correct way, to control the ways he can fight back, rather than try and meet him head on, like his army excels at.

 

Also, a friend had suggested I should have started my assault marines and Sanguinary Guard in reserve, not on the table. While we do have the great Descent rule, I see no point in popping up right beside a Death Guard unit, to be out-shot and blown off the table again. I'd also like to replace the meltaguns on my Assault marines with hand-flamers and use them for combat only, not tank hunting, and fielding melta's in my tacticals instead, plus lascannons instead of missiles. I think that would flow a little better than costing two Assault marines attacks for one melta shot a piece.

 

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions, comrades. God-Emperor be with you all.

[bloodancient]

I know it's not very favored but you can always through in a infernus pistol to the assault squads instead of the meltagun. You can burn thru a rhino and then assault the troop inside.

[Kanis]

I might try the infernus, but I'm leaning to the flamer units for just assault needs; however, I thought you can only assault a unit you've shot at? So since they would shoot and melt the Rhino, I don't think they could assault the squad afterwards, right?

[Zamar]

I might try the infernus, but I'm leaning to the flamer units for just assault needs; however, I thought you can only assault a unit you've shot at? So since they would shoot and melt the Rhino, I don't think they could assault the squad afterwards, right?

You can assault the squad inside.