=][= Winter 2010 Community DIY Challenge =][=

[elohimalpha]

Thanks again, everyone!

 

I entered the best idea in both challenges so far, my opinion of course and highly biased, but I lost and you don't hear me complaining ... well maybe a little but its all in jest. :D

 

Ha! Any proud 'parent' should feel the same! For what it's worth, your scheme and Brother Cambrius's got the bulk of my initial votes - I really want to see those in action

[The Normish]

Congratulations. Not the one I voted for, but I was voting for one less dark, considering I already paint black! Wanted to spice things up for when I make a squad of these guys.

[Brother Melice]

elohimalpha congrats on the win....

 

although i really liked some other entries, an acknowledgment of your efforts is due....

[Codex Grey]

Congratulations, elohimalpha. You beat me fair and square, and I'm glad that the scheme I liked the most (aside from my own ;) ) came out on top.

---

 

Now then, there's a thing I would like to address.

This community project is designed as a challenge, where members can submit suggestions for different elements of a DIY Chapter and vote on other suggestions. But while it's built like a competition, making it pretty interesting and promotes the participation of all members, the goal of the project is in the end to create a great Chapter,right?

The challenge when creating an element is to make something cool, that also confines to the rules and limitations of each round AND the other elements already created. But shouldn't we be able to discuss tweaks and and adjustments of a winning element? Just because I picked one element over another doesn't mean I think that element is perfect. Maybe I liked another element better than the one that was chosen, but could still like/approve/work with the chosen one if a few adjustments were made.

 

The main reason why I bring this up is because of some of the comments in this thread, and it's something we should keep in mind as the project continues. I would like a statement from Brother Tyler, though, either supporting or dismissing my POV.

 

Taking the above into consideration, I have few suggestions that I would like to put up for debate. I'll try to include a good reason for why I'm suggesting these changes, instead of just saying 'because I like it better'.

 

1 - Halving the backpack. This is my biggest issue with the scheme. It's pointless asymmetry that makes the scheme busier than it needs to be. Keeping it halved will help streamlining the scheme and make it visually more pleasing. This is my opinion, but as seen by the comments of other members, I think several people would agree on this.

 

2 - Alternating rims/knee+pads. Another subjective, visual opinion. Members are divided in their opinion of this; some like it, some don't mind, others don't like it. I'm in the camp of not liking it, but at the same time I'm not that bothered, and in this case, it provides a uniqueness to the scheme. I will however suggest reverting the alternating colors back to their 'correct' side, even if it's just one of them (kneepads for example), to reduce the 'busy-ness' of the scheme.

 

3 - Changing the eye color. This is a minor issue, but I feel blue for such a small part of the scheme is a bit pointless, as it doesn't stand out and is lost in the green. And when you do notice it, it becomes distracting, at least for me. My suggestion would be to change it to green. The white helmet separates the eyes from the green half so green eyes would blend with the scheme as a whole. Of course, if you prefer something a bit more contrasting, standard red eyes would do the trick.

 

4 - Main colors. Now, the main reason why I like the scheme, and what I can only guess is the reason for why those who voted for it like it, is the colors. Black and green goes nicely together, especially in this halved scheme with the white topping it off nicely.

But, one important aspects of this element was that the scheme should preferably not be mistakable with official Chapters. And while I do think the scheme is distinct enough as it is, the combination of dark green and black is something that I very much associate with the Dark Angels and their successors. So, maybe by lightening one, or both, of the two main colors it would help severing the connection with traditional DA heraldry. This is not something I necessarily want to change myself, but I think it's a valid though and will like to hear everyone's opinion on it.

 

Included below is an 'Extreme Example', showing better what I mean if we used everyone of my suggestions. Note that I don't necessarily advocate using every suggestion.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/sm.php?b62c=@hyelD_hmIT2.i2SBi@@@@...h2cOu.hDcqP@@i8WKeiakk7@@@____@@@@__@@_____@@@@@hDcqPhwQLK___...__.____hrSGyiakk7&grid=TRUE

Edited December 4, 2010 by Codex Grey

[Brother Tyler]

Yes, adjustments are definitely part of the plan, but will be taken care of later on. For now we're just going to gather the ingredients.

[NightrawenII]

1 - Halving the backpack. This is my biggest issue with the scheme. It's pointless asymmetry that makes the scheme busier than it needs to be. Keeping it halved will help streamlining the scheme and make it visually more pleasing. This is my opinion, but as seen by the comments of other members, I think several people would agree on this.

 

3 - Changing the eye color. This is a minor issue, but I feel blue for such a small part of the scheme is a bit pointless, as it doesn't stand out and is lost in the green. And when you do notice it, it becomes distracting, at least for me. My suggestion would be to change it to green. The white helmet separates the eyes from the green half so green eyes would blend with the scheme as a whole. Of course, if you prefer something a bit more contrasting, standard red eyes would do the trick.

I agree with the above.

 

I'm not sure 'bout alternating rims/knee+pads back. Although it will solve the problem with company affiliation.

Edited December 4, 2010 by NightrawenII

[Brother Tyler]

We're not at the adjustment stage yet, guys. If you have ideas, just keep them in mind for later. For now, we're going to focus on the issues up for development and voting. I'll let you know when it's time to adjust things.

[NightrawenII]

Well, I was showing solidarity and agreement with Codex Grey.

And you ninja'd me with your reply. ;)

[Ace Debonair]

Well, my favourite and least favourite of the proposed schemes made it into the finals, and the scheme that was neither won it. :tu:

You can't ask for more than that, really. :o

 

Congratulations, elohimalpha - I think this win entitles you to join the Liber Heraldry Department. ^_^

[Brother Cambrius]

Well, my favourite and least favourite of the proposed schemes made it into the finals, and the scheme that was neither won it. :(

You can't ask for more than that, really. :D

 

Congratulations, elohimalpha - I think this win entitles you to join the Liber Heraldry Department. ;)

 

Most certainly. Shall we present him with the magic technobrush later?

 

Cambrius

[elohimalpha]

Congratulations, elohimalpha. You beat me fair and square, and I'm glad that the scheme I liked the most (aside from my own :tu: ) came out on top.

---

 

Now then, there's a thing I would like to address.

This community project is designed as a challenge, where members can submit suggestions for different elements of a DIY Chapter and vote on other suggestions. But while it's built like a competition, making it pretty interesting and promotes the participation of all members, the goal of the project is in the end to create a great Chapter,right?

The challenge when creating an element is to make something cool, that also confines to the rules and limitations of each round AND the other elements already created. But shouldn't we be able to discuss tweaks and and adjustments of a winning element? Just because I picked one element over another doesn't mean I think that element is perfect. Maybe I liked another element better than the one that was chosen, but could still like/approve/work with the chosen one if a few adjustments were made.

 

The main reason why I bring this up is because of some of the comments in this thread, and it's something we should keep in mind as the project continues. I would like a statement from Brother Tyler, though, either supporting or dismissing my POV.

 

Taking the above into consideration, I have few suggestions that I would like to put up for debate. I'll try to include a good reason for why I'm suggesting these changes, instead of just saying 'because I like it better'.

 

1 - Halving the backpack. This is my biggest issue with the scheme. It's pointless asymmetry that makes the scheme busier than it needs to be. Keeping it halved will help streamlining the scheme and make it visually more pleasing. This is my opinion, but as seen by the comments of other members, I think several people would agree on this.

 

2 - Alternating rims/knee+pads. Another subjective, visual opinion. Members are divided in their opinion of this; some like it, some don't mind, others don't like it. I'm in the camp of not liking it, but at the same time I'm not that bothered, and in this case, it provides a uniqueness to the scheme. I will however suggest reverting the alternating colors back to their 'correct' side, even if it's just one of them (kneepads for example), to reduce the 'busy-ness' of the scheme.

 

3 - Changing the eye color. This is a minor issue, but I feel blue for such a small part of the scheme is a bit pointless, as it doesn't stand out and is lost in the green. And when you do notice it, it becomes distracting, at least for me. My suggestion would be to change it to green. The white helmet separates the eyes from the green half so green eyes would blend with the scheme as a whole. Of course, if you prefer something a bit more contrasting, standard red eyes would do the trick.

 

4 - Main colors. Now, the main reason why I like the scheme, and what I can only guess is the reason for why those who voted for it like it, is the colors. Black and green goes nicely together, especially in this halved scheme with the white topping it off nicely.

But, one important aspects of this element was that the scheme should preferably not be mistakable with official Chapters. And while I do think the scheme is distinct enough as it is, the combination of dark green and black is something that I very much associate with the Dark Angels and their successors. So, maybe by lightening one, or both, of the two main colors it would help severing the connection with traditional DA heraldry. This is not something I necessarily want to change myself, but I think it's a valid though and will like to hear everyone's opinion on it.

 

Thanks Codex Grey! All the changes you suggest are pretty reasonable/grounded in sound logic. I'm all for tweaking the design, especially if the group is all for it, and especially if what we wind up with is too reminiscent of the Dark Angels. I like the "stripped-down" revision that you came up with, but it seems a little . . . plain (although, what wouldn't compared to the original? :( ) Halving the backpack - sure, why not? Seems to be a sticking point for quite a few folks :wallbash: The rims+kneepads will probably not even be an issue pending the next round of voting, and I could for sure live with just one or the other alternating. The green eyes are a win for sure. And for the main colors, for what it's worth, it's DA Green and Charadon Granite - not a huge difference, especially when the green might be a sticking point.

 

Congratulations, elohimalpha - I think this win entitles you to join the Liber Heraldry Department.

Ace, it would be both an honor and a privilege

 

Most certainly. Shall we present him with the magic technobrush later?

Cambrius, just out of curiosity, would you happen to know the approximate street value of a magic technobrush? It's for, uh . . . some research I'm doing

[Ace Debonair]

Most certainly. Shall we present him with the magic technobrush later?

Cambrius, just out of curiosity, would you happen to know the approximate street value of a magic technobrush? It's for, uh . . . some research I'm doing

 

It's worth one measure of respect. :)

Exchange rates and similar notwithstanding. :sweat:

[Octavulg]

While I'd agree that the not-halved backpack looks odd, it took me some time to notice it.

 

Otherwise, I think the scheme looks excellent, and all of you who have problems with alternating colors of kneepads or trim...

 

Well, you're weird. :)

[Brother Tyler]

Okay, our poll for the first part of the Chapter Markings has concluded and we have the following:

 

The squad badge is displayed upon the right shoulder pad (the most common method of indicating squad affiliation. Later on we'll determine what color the squad badge is. We're not going to worry about different styles of squad badge, allowing for the degree of variation that the Codex Astartes allows (Insignium Astartes shows a wide variety of different badges used by the Ultramarines, so we're not tied to a single Tactical badge, a single Assault badge, etc.).

 

Company affiliation is indicated by displaying the company number upon one of the kneepads. Later on we'll determine which kneepad the company number is displayed upon, whether Roman or Arabic numerals are used (and we'll simply narrow it down to Roman/Arabic without worrying about a specific font), and the color of the number.

 

Sergeants are indicated by a red helmet. The most common form of this is the usual Codex Astartes practice of simply having the whole helmet in a red color. Alternatives are to add a red laurel design to the helmet, to have a red stripe, etc. We'll allow for variation without getting overly specific, leaving it a red helmet.

[Brother Tyler]

Element 4: Chapter Badge - Colors

[smindent=30]

S

pace Marine Chapter badges or icons are of very mixed origin. Many are iterations of common Imperial icons, such as the eagle, eagle wings, skulls and armoured fists. At a Chapter

[Ace Debonair]

My freestyle art skills are matched only by my skills at brain surgery and successful planetary governance.

 

In other words, this is a job for everyone else. :)

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Another art challenge. Maybe I should try this just to see if it's possible to have a negative number of votes. <_<

[Octavulg]

Speaking as someone who thinks the current colors for the badge would actually work well - make sure to have that as an option, please. ^_^

[Dosjetka]

Definitely doing this one :P

 

Ludovic

[Brother Tyler]

Element 4 (Chapter badge - final) voting posted here. Edited December 11, 2010 by Brother Tyler
Fixed link after reseting the poll.

[Brother Tyler]

Just a heads up as we continue with this project.

 

First, I've been giving three or four days to vote in previous elements, but I've seen that voting tapers off after the second day. So in an effort to speed up the progress of the project, I'll be giving two or three days to vote, depending upon when I get the poll started. If I start the poll before noon, expect two days. If I start it after noon or on a weekend, expect three days.

 

Second, I was going through my planning for future elements, using the various topics covered in a typical Index Astartes article, the IA9 format, and other sources. One of the parameters I've decided upon for this Chapter is that it is largely "Codex", however, so I've removed a few of those elements. There will still be room to make a few tweaks here and there, but the intent with this Chapter is to develop a Codex Chapter that is unique on elements other than rules and organization. So I've removed a number of the elements. I think it's down to twelve or so, which is still quite a few. We might expand on these elements as we develop material, so I'm not limiting us to those twelve elements. Also, there are a few things I've got marked as "tentative", including development of special characters and rules for the Deathwatch RPG. We can discuss whether or not we want to do those kinds of things later, but our efforts for now will be focused on developing the basic background behind the Chapter without worrying about any rules issues.

 

For those of you that are concerned about the reduced timeline and ensuring that you get the updates, I highly recommend subscribing to this discussion. While it might be a pain getting notices whenever there's a reply, this discussion is where I'll be posting the official updates. I want to ensure that everyone that wants to participate gets as much notice as possible, though I don't have the time to send everyone personalized updates and such. So the best way to stay abreast of the project is to subscribe to this discussion. If you don't subscribe and then miss an update, don't complain to me. :P

[Dosjetka]

Sub'd. Can't wait to see the final results :D

 

Ludovic

[Brother Melice]

I think including background color for the Chapter Badge when posting possible options would be a better idea, as then the whole image can be perceived, rather than being presented against a plain white background.

 

Some options rally conflict with the presented color options of the shoulder pad inseams.... example- white skull- green talon...

 

To avoid confusion, where should the chapter badge appear?

[Brother Tyler]

I agree with the suggestion, but figured everyone would have the common sense to imagine the proposals and color combinations on the dark grey/black of the left shoulder pad. ;)

 

For those of you that didn't consider the color of the shoulder pad when voting, get in line for 30-second pain glove sessions.

 

I disagree with the description of the white skull/green claw not necessarily working, though, as the color of the left shoulder pad is dark grey/black. Perhaps the green might need to be lightened up a bit in order to provide more contrast, but it's not the color scheme I see as being problematic (not unless we consider terminators, that is, but that might be an issue for determining Veteran markings which will come up later :cuss ).

[Brother Melice]

agreed....

 

Terminator variations can be decided later on.