Vulkan

[Codicier Lucion]

Does anyone have any good tactics on how to kill this annoying Salamander? People keep using him along side termies with combat shields and thunder hammers then placing them in a land raider crusader. Each time i've faced them they keep strolling right through my entire force butchering everything in sight with ease.

 

Last Apocalypse game they killed off a ten man assault squad, the relic blade armed chapter master with them, three tacical squads and a baneblade before the game ended. Without taking a single damn causalty. So besides taking lots of basic units and having them all shoot at this one unit until the player using them starts failing armour saves any tactical advice or army lists would be appreciated.

[breng77]

Well, massed shots is best. But otherwise they are slow, so you can just avoid them (if you kill their transport)

[Zynk Kaladin]

Take out the landraider with some multimelta speeders or bikes. Footslogging assault termies can be tactically ignored for the most part.

[DarkGuard]

One fantastic way to deal with Terminators, when out in the open, is to cast Null Zone, and then drop a couple of demolisher shells on the unit. One should stick, and they've got more than a 50% chance of failing. Well that's what I'd do.

 

In all honesty there are multiple ways, including massed fire power from things like Sternguard, plasma Command Squads, Thunderfires. If using AP 1/2 weapons then Null Zone would be a great help.

 

In all honesty, it's easy to say things like use this or that, but without knowing your army list fully and what else you have in your collection it can be hard to give an answer personal to you.

 

I will say that that unit is a beast in combat, and tough to kill. However, it's mobility without a Land Raider is very slow, so if you blow the Land Raider early you can avoid the unit as had already been said. Also, with the Raider, that unit will be reaching upwards of around 650pts. In 1500pts that's nearly half of your army. Basically, it's expensive, and if you can ignore it then hopefully you can focus on the rest of the army which should crumble.

[thade]

Melta weaponry has pretty limited range on the move, so keep moving and keep your distance while you can. If you have mobile anti-armor (speeders with MMs, Vindicators) use those to ground him. Devestator squads with MLs will surprise you, as they can ground his transports and his speeders.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm going to echo DarkGuard and push for a Librarian with Null Zone -- forcing rerolls on his successful stormshield saves will help you out a lot. With that in play, hit him with mass-casualty AP2 weapons like plasma guns/cannons (especially cannon!) and Demolisher shells. If you do not have a Librarian, the only other thing I can recommend is to swamp his ability to roll 2+ saves. Sternguard with Hellfire rounds are good for this; Thunderfire Cannons have a certain utility here too, either pulling mass wounds on a 2+ or else use the subterranean blast to slow them down and give your other elements more time to shoot.

 

And of course, all this is dependent on melta-ing his Land Raider as quick as you can. The sooner you pull them out of their transport, the more time you have to lay shots into them.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Note, you don't HAVE to destroy the landraider. Just prevent it from moving. For example, move flat out with a landspeeder to block it's path. Haha, it can't move that turn, which is 1 less turn of termies whacking the holy hell out of you. Be creative.

[Kay]

why wouldnt it just go around your speeder? what does he loose? 2"? 3?

[Chengar Qordath]

why wouldnt it just go around your speeder? what does he loose? 2"? 3?

Depends on the terrain; sometimes a Land Raider will not have enough maneuvering room to go around a Speeder. Even if there is enough room, it might have to take a dangerous terrain check to get around the speeder, and some players don't like to take that chance.

[H.C.118]

Well, stop the delivery system and the package won't arrive at your lines. A 140 point suicide Dreadnought works just fine, or if you want to get creative, then drop a bunch of drop pods around the LR, as AV 12 won't be easy to kill and unless enough are killed, then the LR OR Vulkan can't get out.

[Grizzly_bear]

As every one has said deatroying the LR carrying the termies will slow them down a hell of alot, assault termies are fantastic, specially mixed in with Vulkan, but a walking assult termie squad are NOT going to hurt you, 6" move every turn, too slow, just forcing termies to make shEd loads of armour/Invun saves will eventually go against them.

But I would suggest fast units against the LR and the termie assult squad (if theyve survied the blast or LR being hit)

 

OR if you're feeling sneaky, counter attack the rules for Vulkan, make your own

model of him, representing your chatper etc and gain the abilty to twin link melta weapons.....sorted.

[spartan249]

2 Speeders with Multi-Meltas - 120 pts

1 Bike Squad with 2 plasma guns and a Multi-melta attack bike - 295 pts

1 Librarian on a bike - 135 pts

 

A 650 point unit neutralized by two units that are cheaper and faster and scoring (salt in the wound!) - Priceless.

[BearersOfSalvation]

why wouldnt it just go around your speeder? what does he loose? 2"? 3?

 

Way more than that. You can't pass within 1" of an enemy unit, the the land raider itself is pretty wide, and the speeder has some width. You've got to move the width of the land raider + 1" to the side, then forward, then back that same distance, so you're losing at least 6", probably more lik 8-10". If there is terrain, then you're in much worse shape. And if there are two speeders instead of one, they can create a road block around 14" wide (assuming the speeders are 3" long, which I think is correct).

 

The land raider could ram, but that's chancy - you won't get much of a speed bonus since the speeder is close, and you come to a stop if you don't kill the speeder.

[Chengar Qordath]

The land raider could ram, but that's chancy - you won't get much of a speed bonus since the speeder is close, and you come to a stop if you don't kill the speeder.

Not to mention that skimmers dodge any ramming attempt on a 3+.

[glsn]

I've done this with Rhinos before, but never thought to do it with speeders. Interesting. Thank you.

[BearersOfSalvation]

Not to mention that skimmers dodge any ramming attempt on a 3+.

 

You don't want to dodge though, because if you dodge then the tank keeps moving past you, so you don't have a roadblock anymore. You want the speeder to take the hit but not die so that the land raider is stuck in place. (unless I'm misremembering the rules, I don't ram skimmers often)

[DarkGuard]

Not to mention that skimmers dodge any ramming attempt on a 3+.

 

You don't want to dodge though, because if you dodge then the tank keeps moving past you, so you don't have a roadblock anymore. You want the speeder to take the hit but not die so that the land raider is stuck in place. (unless I'm misremembering the rules, I don't ram skimmers often)

 

I'm afraid you are misremembering the rules there. Page 71 of the main rulebook:

 

On a 3+ the skimmer avoids the tank, neither vehicle suffers any damage, and the ramming tank stops in its tracks (literally!), its crew confused and disappointed.

 

So makes blocking a Land Raider with a skimmer even better me thinks.

[BearersOfSalvation]

I'm afraid you are misremembering the rules there. Page 71 of the main rulebook:

 

Nice, that makes the skimmer roadblock really obnoxious then. I was thinking it was more like tank shock.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Yea, I've gotten some real nasty frowns before by doing this. You'll feel soo much better for doing such a thing. If you're lucky and your landspeeder somehow lives next turn, melta the crap out of that landraider!

 

Hell, I'd even venture to say you could bring a whole squadron of multi melta speeders and park them right in front of his big tank. If you're REALLY lucky you can stay out of LOS on his other anti tank big guns. Then your opponent will probably spend most of his time trying to save his landraider instead of worrying about the rest of you're army.

[Tangamarine]

And not on your own land raider and two vindicators etc...

 

If you have 3 speeders move round to block all access points then pop the raider. That will get them to emergency disembark, or if the put something in the way, destroyed

[Chengar Qordath]

Yea, I've gotten some real nasty frowns before by doing this. You'll feel soo much better for doing such a thing. If you're lucky and your landspeeder somehow lives next turn, melta the crap out of that landraider!

 

Hell, I'd even venture to say you could bring a whole squadron of multi melta speeders and park them right in front of his big tank. If you're REALLY lucky you can stay out of LOS on his other anti tank big guns. Then your opponent will probably spend most of his time trying to save his landraider instead of worrying about the rest of you're army.

The AT guns are not as much of a critical issue as one might initially think; speeders with the flat-out cover save can be surprising durable against AT fire, and are nigh-immune to assault since they only get hit on a 6+.

[DarkGuard]

And not on your own land raider and two vindicators etc...

 

If you have 3 speeders move round to block all access points then pop the raider. That will get them to emergency disembark, or if the put something in the way, destroyed

 

Remember that this tactic won't work if you explode the Land Raider, as he simply deploys them where the Land Raider is, the middle of a crater if you have one. Therefore, it's got to be destroyed, to force him to disembark from the access hatches, and thereby die instantly.

 

However, if you don't mind me saying I do find this a rather cheap tactic and against the spirit of the game. Plus it's more fun to bolter or demolish them (with Null Zone of course!) all down.

[Tangamarine]

well, my list doesn't have a librarian in it, and I would only do such a thing in tournaments

[DarkGuard]

well, my list doesn't have a librarian in it, and I would only do such a thing in tournaments

 

Touché, I suppose it's down to personal preference in the end :cuss.

[Zynk Kaladin]

True, there is a certain sense of honor that must be upheld. I never liked cheap tricks in the rules that cause my enemies to die without a fight. I'd rather best them with gun and blade. But, if victory calls, then I'll use that trick in tournaments only, rules permitting.