Digging Deeper

[Requiemnex]

Two questions.....

 

1. Do you feel like sisters of battle are still a competative army in a tourney setting?

a. What are their downfalls and shortfalls?

b. What do they excel at? (other than the obvious short range fire)

c. Are the charecters even worth looking at?

 

2. I am about to finish Rynn's World and I am wanting to read up on some of their fluff and what not. What are some good books to pick up to get a feel for them?

[Inquisitor Fox]

As far as tournement settings I couldn't tell you as I don't play in them :lol: In terms of weaknesses though, fundamentally both branches of the Inquisition armies (WH and DH) have the same flaw: relatively little to no long ranged firepower, particularly anti-tank firepower. Witch Hunters long range firepower is limited to Retributors (usually fielded with heavy bolters as opposed to multi-meltas), Immolators with heavy bolter or mult-melta, Exorcists, and Chimera or Land Raider transports for IST's or Inquisitors.

 

Sisters really excel by being far more durable between power armor and Acts of Faith than most opponents give them credit for. They're treated as an underdog, then manage to punch you right in the kidnies and force you to revise your opinion. The characters Are worth looking at, and in fact during the moderator Arena of Death my variant of Flying Nun (blessed weapon and various wargear) was going toe to toe with a relic blade/stormshield Space Marine Captain and was barely edged out, so gave a very reasonable showing.

 

In terms of fluff, the only real novel I can think of is Faith and Fire. Otherwise there's a few short stories, usually with the Sisters as a supporting role then one instance in one of the newer novels as them as villains. I think they were in an audiobook with the Salamanders. Then there was a graphic novel that I've never been able to read.

[WarriorFish]

The main weakness of SoB now is predictability I think. With an older codex we're still viable but there's little variety in what we can do and still expect to have a good chance. These are weaknesses that in a tourney you should expect your opponents to know what to expect. As such SoB will need a good player to get the best out of them as without time spent learning the army well you'll be on the back foot.

 

It's not that bad though, especially since SoB have several strengths. The abundance of melta and flamer weaponry is truly a gift from the Emperor in 5th Edition and we can get a good number of power armoured bolters on the table secured with the precious BoSL. The Flying Nun is a classic too, letting us take nasty ICs and squads out of the game that would mince our valuable SoB squads. The Exorcist is good too though it needs support from other mechanised elements.

 

There is another SoB book slated for next year I think, but I'm not aware of any details about it.

[number6]

Good 40K armies have the following elements.

 

* Mobility

* Resilience

* Firepower (more specifically, excellent access to both anti-infantry and anti-infantry firepower in every force organization slot)

* Assault capability

 

Do Sisters stack up? Let's see....

 

* Mobility: You have access to jump troops and every unit not jump troops can be mounted in a transport if you wish. Check!

 

* Resilience: You have 3+ saves, can selectively turn your saves into invulnerable saves, and every unit can be mounted in a transport if you wish. Check!

 

* Firepower: Every unit can take melta guns and/or flamers. Not to mention the ubiquitous bolter. AND Divine Guidance for real damage on top of all that. Check!

 

* Assault Capability: This is where the the Witch Hunters don't have much to offer. You can kit up an Inquisitor and retinue. You can take arco flagellants. And that's about it. Neither are very strong options, and beyond that, Sisters really can't do much. A faith-boosted and fully kitted out Canoness is the best you can do, but that's still just one and only one model.

 

So looking this list over, I would have to say that Sisters are still capable of competing in competitive, tournament play. You have a weakness in the assault phase, but it's not a crippling one, especially considering your serious strengths in other three areas.

[andrewm9]

Good 40K armies have the following elements.

 

* Mobility

* Resilience

* Firepower (more specifically, excellent access to both anti-infantry and anti-infantry firepower in every force organization slot)

* Assault capability

 

Do Sisters stack up? Let's see....

 

* Mobility: You have access to jump troops and every unit not jump troops can be mounted in a transport if you wish. Check!

 

* Resilience: You have 3+ saves, can selectively turn your saves into invulnerable saves, and every unit can be mounted in a transport if you wish. Check!

 

* Firepower: Every unit can take melta guns and/or flamers. Not to mention the ubiquitous bolter. AND Divine Guidance for real damage on top of all that. Check!

 

* Assault Capability: This is where the the Witch Hunters don't have much to offer. You can kit up an Inquisitor and retinue. You can take arco flagellants. And that's about it. Neither are very strong options, and beyond that, Sisters really can't do much. A faith-boosted and fully kitted out Canoness is the best you can do, but that's still just one and only one model.

 

So looking this list over, I would have to say that Sisters are still capable of competing in competitive, tournament play. You have a weakness in the assault phase, but it's not a crippling one, especially considering your serious strengths in other three areas.

 

All of what you said is true for the most part, however for an almost entirely shooting army our firepower is too short in the range department. Unless we kill a squad entirely we can count on being assualted where most of our units stink. By the time we have come to grips with the enemy we are at 12" or less in range. That puts us into assualt range right away. This necessitates that we have 2 or more squads on the target for the kill to take effect. Sisters need more long range shooting period. All of our shooting thats more than 12" is almost exclusively in heavy support. All long range anti-tank is definitely locked in there. Sisters also lack blast templates of any type. That being said any of our victories are that much sweeter because of it.

 

The point I really disgaree on is resilience. When almost all of our models are wounded on a 3+ we are forced to make more saves than a space marine army the weight of wounds. The difference is huge. Once I get out of my transport I don't expect my girls to live

[Inquisitor Fox]

Yes the Sisters are weaker than Marines, but compare them to guardsmen and they live infinitely longer :) A Storm Trooper and a Sister of Battle both live significantly longer than most people expect them to (the Sister much more so than the Storm Trooper). Don't expect them to be Marines and you'll be impressed over time.

 

The biggest thing that I find as the problem is the long range firepower. My own solutions were the following:

 

* Including a squad of Retributors with 4 heavy bolters.

* Including an Exorcist.

* Including a Land Raider carrying Inquisitor with close combat retinue (for counter charging)

* Upgrading 2 Chimeras to bear auto-cannon turrets with heavy bolter and pintle heavy stubber (Forge World turret option)

 

It's not much, particularly compared to many armies, but it's given me at least a hope of some long range firepower. Granted it also has shifted my army from phenominal short range firepower to a bit longer range, so I'm not sure how many of these options I'll end up keeping over time. At the moment though, with a few other options here and there it's made a force that I enjoy gaming with, even if it's all a question of trade offs.

[andrewm9]

Yes the Sisters are weaker than Marines, but compare them to guardsmen and they live infinitely longer :) A Storm Trooper and a Sister of Battle both live significantly longer than most people expect them to (the Sister much more so than the Storm Trooper). Don't expect them to be Marines and you'll be impressed over time.

 

The biggest thing that I find as the problem is the long range firepower. My own solutions were the following:

 

* Including a squad of Retributors with 4 heavy bolters.

* Including an Exorcist.

* Including a Land Raider carrying Inquisitor with close combat retinue (for counter charging)

* Upgrading 2 Chimeras to bear auto-cannon turrets with heavy bolter and pintle heavy stubber (Forge World turret option)

 

It's not much, particularly compared to many armies, but it's given me at least a hope of some long range firepower. Granted it also has shifted my army from phenominal short range firepower to a bit longer range, so I'm not sure how many of these options I'll end up keeping over time. At the moment though, with a few other options here and there it's made a force that I enjoy gaming with, even if it's all a question of trade offs.

 

Sisters live longer than Guardsman at certain distances, but there are more Guardsmen without a doubt. Guardsman can blast Sisters' transports and Infantry off the map before they have much of a chance to reply back. Autocannons are cheap upgrades to heavy weapons squads and teams. For 1500 points or less I can throw down 12 las cannons, 12 missile launchers, 12 autocannons, and more than a coupel of melta guns.

 

Options 3 and 4 can easily take away from your army's other strengths like Faith. I've played with the Land Raider/Inquisitor option but its very over priced for what you get. if you are deployign Chimeras then you are taking some crap models to get them.

 

Option 2 is the no brainer IMO. Its always good to have 2 or 3 Exorcists. Teh more the btter. Its got strong range and strength for the ranged anti-armor the Sisters so badly need. Option 1 is less of an option IMO as it strictly anti-infantry unless you face Dark Eldar. :) It can net you an extra faith point however which is never bad. Since thats about all we can get though in this day its just not enough combined with our lower toughness. Unless we go strictly infantry we are fieldign about the same number of Sisters as marines.

 

Sisters are not marines but we shoudl hav

[Inquisitor Fox]

I also contend that if you're going up against an Imperial Guard gunline on planet bowling ball with the Inquisition you're not going to win. The army isn't designed for it. Both halves of the Inquisition function better with terrain, cover, limited lines of sight, and opportunities to utilize mobility (Daemon Hunters) and/or mechanization and jump troops (Witch Hunters) along with select infiltration (assassins) to break up enemy forces and nibble them away.

 

IST's are worse than Sisters in terms of basic statline, yes. However, they function perfectly well as anti-armor units with twin meltaguns, allowing your Sisters to blaze away at enemy infantry. They also have the utilitarian grenade launcher, and in the end a s3 ap5 gun isn't that much worse than a s4 ap5 gun. Acts of Faith are powerful, it's true, but they're also very limited in number.

 

The Chimera even with codex options of multilaser, heavy bolter and stormbolter adds much needed heavy weapons to the list. It's even a better deal if you utilize the Forgeworld rules (with the updated IA2 v1.3 update available on Forgeworld's site) which sets the points value at IG levels, and opens up the autocannon and heavy stubber as options. This now gives me 8 shots at 36" + range, with several shots that can threaten enemy transports and walkers. It's not for everyone, but it has definate uses.

 

Only having one Exorcist is a problem yes, that's why I pair it with a Land Raider. AV14 that can split it's fire with two twin-linked lascannons and take a significant pounding at range from most armies is definately useful. Now the opponent has a choice between targetting my Land Raider and targetting my Exorcist, or do they go after my two transports or after the other Sisters and Seraphim going after their units as well. It creates additional target priority issues.

 

Is it perfect? No. Would it be better with a more modern codex? Probably. But with an 1850 list I can address anti-armor firepower, anti-infantry firepower, Acts of Faith, multiple vehicles, anti-psyker, multiple scoring untis, and still have something that's fun for me to play. I'm probably not going to win a tourney, but I also don't play in tournies.

 

I present these things as options for someone to consider. There's other options I didn't even list, like melta-torpedos or penitent engines or eviscerators to handle armor. It's an approach that has worked for me and I find relative success with, so I keep going with it. In the end the most you can do is try things out and see what works for you.

[number6]

All of what you said is true for the most part, however for an almost entirely shooting army our firepower is too short in the range department. Unless we kill a squad entirely we can count on being assualted where most of our units stink. By the time we have come to grips with the enemy we are at 12" or less in range. That puts us into assualt range right away. This necessitates that we have 2 or more squads on the target for the kill to take effect. Sisters need more long range shooting period. All of our shooting thats more than 12" is almost exclusively in heavy support. All long range anti-tank is definitely locked in there. Sisters also lack blast templates of any type. That being said any of our victories are that much sweeter because of it.

 

The point I really disgaree on is resilience. When almost all of our models are wounded on a 3+ we are forced to make more saves than a space marine army the weight of wounds. The difference is huge. Once I get out of my transport I don't expect my girls to live

This is where superior tactical play is required. You should be running your vehicles in groups almost as if they were squadrons. You choo-choo train them up the field with the front vehicle changing positions and popping smoke. That way it gets a 4+ cover save and everything behind it will get a 3+ cover save.

 

Some vehicles will die or be immobilized, but the majority of your force will make it across the table. (You only need one turn to cross the table before you can get into firing range on your next turn.)

 

You're still grouped. Form up vehicles into triangles so nobody can get in and there's about 2" gap between each vehicle so you can shoot out. Drop one Sister unit out and unload. On your next turn, that unit embarks, the formation gets rebuilt, and a different Sisters unit disembarks and shoots out. Rinse, lather, repeat.

 

Of course you'll suffer some losses -- nothing ever goes perfectly -- but you get the idea. If you do this right, your enemy will be suffering greater losses than you, and you can win the game.

 

Finally, resilience isn't just about a 3+ save. Mechanization is its own resilience. Your opponent must take at least two swipes at you to eliminate your vital assets. If you aren't mechanized, they may only need to take one swipe. Having an armoured shell -- no matter how thin -- to protect you at least once is indeed a form a resilience.

[calypso2ts]

I played an all SoB army at the Da Boyz tournament this weekend and went 3-1-1 overall. I faced:

BA - Massacre Loss

SW - Massace Win

CSM - Win

SW - Draw

Necrons (destroyers)- Win

 

My list was:

Jump Canoness - standard with Eviserator

Canoness w/ Celestains 2x Melta in Immolator

 

2x Celestians w/ 2x Melta in Immolator

 

4x Standard SoB, one with 2x Melta, others with F, HF, Brazier and books

 

2x Exorcist

 

So for your questions:

 

Are SoB competitive? They are definitely competitive. I did not feel I was 'out classed' by any opponent and I had the capability to deal with them all with Flamers, Evicerators and Exorcists.

 

a. They suffer from a very linear style of play. There is no outflanking units, no reliable deep strikers that can really influence a game and are points effective. They are also maxed at 12" movement with transports so they cannot speed across the board to contest or take objective. This is compounded by the fact that their most effective weapons are short range. In the 6"-12" range they are one of the most effective armies in the game. However, getting in range in a desirable situation is difficult and sometimes you need to take chance. They do not excel in assault but if you back them up with a unit like the Canoness's I fielded (who were primarily counter assault/support units) then you can keep your troops generally free and tie up your opponents for a while. Their book helps you break combat when you want to so you can take the chance of being swept to shoot up another unit with other squads.

 

b. Their rarity is an advantage. The first player I faced knew them well and out played me (the mission didn't help very much either), but the other players were familiar with them but did not have much practice. I was able to wreck a lot of marines with Divine Guidance flamers and hold them up in assaults with SotM until help could arrive. They can tarpit a dread for a long time. Further, a 2++ is brutal with the Canoness and many people do not know how to hadle her. Most people's target priority is poor as well as they shoot at Exorcists in cover and not the SoB squads and Immolators that do the most damage.

 

Correct Faith usage also can turn the tide in a lot of situations and it tends to change the odds in ways your opponents don't appreciate (for example a 10 man SoB squad assaulting a vehicle with hand to be S5)

 

c. The two named characters are overcosted for what they do in my opinion. At 201 points Celestine is too much, a jump pack canonessis 145, and celestine wounds on a 3+ against marines. She does get hit and run and some other special rules, but a T3 model can be instant killed. Compare her to one of the newer baddies (like mephiston at 285) and she doesnt come close. Karamazov might be interesting in a footslogging list similar to the Eldar use of the Avatar, but he isnt that survivable, isnt a beast in combat and cant have those fortuned rerolls to his saves. Plus the lack of ranged weapons on non tank platforms makes this army a bit weak (24" multi meltas and 36" h bolters dont count).

 

Edit: The major downside of SoB though is it is difficult to achieve massacre results against a good opponent, I mean REALLY difficult, because they tend to be too slow in some cases or not killy enough in others. Some armies excel at building momentum and crushing their opponenets (Orks, Guard, SW, BA) are more capable at this. Winning a big event means reliably being able to achieve this. The random nature of Exorcists complicates things because sometimes they are 135 points for 1 BS4 AP 1 missile...and that represents all your anti tank. The game I drew against SW I rolled the first two turns a total of 4 missiles, bad luck but I was 'just' on the edge of a big win (tied KP 8-8 and had 600 more VP when I needed 650)

[Requiemnex]

This is all really great information, i appreciate it. No one at my local store really plays sisters of battle and all they know is somehow we can get AP1 flamers. I have to say i put some thought into the land raider and exorcist tanks idea. Its just way too many points really in my mind... Playing chaos and crimson fists currently in addition to my eldar... So looking at Sisters I would say i am going to use a LOT more tanks than I am normally used to. in an 1850 I am thinking three exorcist tanks, 4 rhino and 1-2 immolators. Coming to approx. 9 tanks. I dont think even guard come with enough anti tank to deal with that..

 

So i am curious what people feel are compulsary faith uses.

 

In addition to this. Has anyone thought about taking VSS with a bolter and bionics then kenny them off for the rare get back up for free faith?

 

I will be posting a few lists soon and hope you all will give input. Currently i have 2 squads of sisters painted. two rhino put together and primed up. Canoness with jump pack mostly painted eviscerator and bolt pistol. Got two boxes with my 2 exorcists in them. The metal on them is horrid. Can not figure it out without hacking most of plastic away.

[Eltnot]

They are definitely competitive and are excellent if backed up by an inducted guard platoon for extra anti tank if the tournament still allows inducted units. I'm getting mine fully painted and are starting to get some good results with them again. Recently placed 7th in a 32 player tournament with a rather sub par list (only two exorcists and had a ten strong unit of repentia with a priest). Once I get more painted I'll be even happier.

[calypso2ts]

The tournament I played was highly comped, I will probably field 3x Exorcist in a non comped tournament and cut a canoness from the list for it (leaving the Immolator). With guard they are a different animal, but imo if you want to field them with guard ally them into a guard army (they would be really good in an outflanking Vendetta with flamers). Otherwise, you get really sub par choices and dilute your faith pool. I ran with 11 Faith and I was down to 1 or 2 at the end of each game.

 

I would recommend brining at least 2 immolators, possibly 3. You can buy a bare bones (I dont run a book or even a vet superior with my celestians) with 2x Melta for 160 points which is really cheap. I also really like to run an Inferno Pistol on my canoness, it can help remove an extra attack from a dread with a glance and even better is if you can take off its DCCW and get stuck in - you will rip it open typically in the first or second turn without having to burn any faith.

 

I use Faith for the following...

Light of the Emperor - in one game I had a single troop model (superior) fleeing near my opponents objective, I regrouped her with it hopped in the Rhino and captured the objective on the last turn. This can be a KP and VP saver - I only try it on squads of 7 or less models.

 

Divine Guidance - Whenever I have flame templates. The major goal for me in any game versus MEQ is to blow their transports and be in position to burn out the squad inside with flamers. I almost never use it on my melta squads, the flamers are really what makes it shine.

 

Spirit of the Martyr - Canoness is the primary candidate for this, I also use it to save squads with low model counts if I need to tarpit until help comes. Don't bother on a 9 or 10 man squad. Use it once they get lower. Remember, most opponents count on power weapons to take down MEQ (against Orks this is almost worthless since their normal attacks tend to just smash you open although it helps ).

 

Hand of the Emperor - If I think I have a chance to win combat I use this, charging it is a no brainer to pop it, especially if I am running through cover - note never take grenades on your SoB squads - if it seems bad I hold off to see how many casualties I take before deciding to pop it. If it is a 10 man squad I will do it when I have 9 models against MEQ since I can realistically pull off 2 wounds to win combat and force leadership (2 wounds - 6 inflicted - 9 hits out of 12 attacks). I also pop it on my canoness to instant kill characters and to take out Ironclads and sometimes venerable dreads.

 

Really at the end of the day you need to play to get an idea for the pace of using faith and when to use it on a squad and when to just let the squad perish.

[Eltnot]

Hand of the Emperor - If I think I have a chance to win combat I use this, charging it is a no brainer to pop it, especially if I am running through cover - note never take grenades on your SoB squads - if it seems bad I hold off to see how many casualties I take before deciding to pop it. If it is a 10 man squad I will do it when I have 9 models against MEQ since I can realistically pull off 2 wounds to win combat and force leadership (2 wounds - 6 inflicted - 9 hits out of 12 attacks). I also pop it on my canoness to instant kill characters and to take out Ironclads and sometimes venerable dreads.

You have to declare it at the start of the assault phase (ie before you make any assault moves), so waiting until you see how many casualties you take is illegal.

[calypso2ts]

Not the case, that is for Spirit of the Martyr.

 

"Effect: Make the Test of Faith before rolling to hit. ..but will strike at Initiative 1."

 

So long as I test before I3 rolls are made, I can use it.

 

Just realized I have been using DG wrong though, it doesn't change much but you test for it after rolling hits only (including CC).

 

For the record...

SotM - Start of Phase (shooting or Assault)

DG - After rolling to hit

TP - Start of the Assault Phase

LotE - Start of the Phase (another use I seldom put this to would be to guarantee a unit you need to tarpit doesn't break in spite of the book).

HotE - Before rolling to hit

[ValourousHeart]

Something else to consider is that with as rare as sisters armies are... the PSYCHO units are even more rare to see.

I was able to use this too good advantage at a doubles tournament last year.

 

I was there just to have fun and didn't really care about the results.

Oddly enough we came in 4th... which I felt was a great showing as neither I nor my partner to a particularly "solid list" as far as the internet experts would say.

 

Inq Lord with 3 HB guards, Shotgun Arbites, lots of Arcos, a couple of Penitent Engines and an orbital strike.

The best part of it was waiting to see which way my army would go... quite literally the last choice you get to make for most of the army was where you are going to deploy them.

 

Is this the best list for the newer players... maybe / maybe not... but what values to us veteran players really want to instill in the next generation?

WAAC (win at all cost) or FAAC (fun at all cost)?

 

Both named characters can be great fun to play, even if they are not the best bargains.

But you have to build a list for them... and Not just add them in as an after thought.

Same goes with just about any other unit in the WH codex... all are playable, you just have to pick what your key unit is going to be and build the list around getting that unit to do the job you want it to do.

 

For example Arcos in a sisters list is doable... you just need rhinos in order to screen them on their way in.

 

The biggest weakness is the lack of true flexibility in list building.

With the SW dex you can pick any random 1500 points from the codex and have a solid list.

Sisters have to be tailored to a particular tactic... decide what you want to do and who you want to do it with... and then build a list around those units to enable them to do their job.

[dswanick]

Good 40K armies have the following elements.

 

* Mobility

* Resilience

* Firepower (more specifically, excellent access to both anti-infantry and anti-infantry firepower in every force organization slot)

* Assault capability

 

Do Sisters stack up? Let's see....

 

* Mobility: You have access to jump troops and every unit not jump troops can be mounted in a transport if you wish. Check!

My only hope is that as with the rumor of Grey Knights getting the Blood Raven, I hope to see a new SoB codex giving them the Valkyire as a transport option. It seems such a natural fit. So much so that I'm already investing in a dozen for Apocalypse games and our IG army. It would just be nice if my wife could use them in tourney 40k games as well.

* Resilience: You have 3+ saves, can selectively turn your saves into invulnerable saves, and every unit can be mounted in a transport if you wish. Check!

 

* Firepower: Every unit can take melta guns and/or flamers. Not to mention the ubiquitous bolter. AND Divine Guidance for real damage on top of all that. Check!

 

* Assault Capability: This is where the the Witch Hunters don't have much to offer. You can kit up an Inquisitor and retinue. You can take arco flagellants. And that's about it. Neither are very strong options, and beyond that, Sisters really can't do much. A faith-boosted and fully kitted out Canoness is the best you can do, but that's still just one and only one model.

Seraphim are a good assault unit given the general power level of the Sisters. Not anywhere near BA assaults or anything, but still worthy of some respect.

So many people seem to not like/overlook the Repentia squads. Take a big squad, add a priest and my wife's Repentia have surprised several of our friends - including killing one's CC terminator squad with an attached captain...

So looking this list over, I would have to say that Sisters are still capable of competing in competitive, tournament play. You have a weakness in the assault phase, but it's not a crippling one, especially considering your serious strengths in other three areas.

 

I played an all SoB army at the Da Boyz tournament this weekend and went 3-1-1 overall. I faced:

Was yours the black and white scheme with the red IG detachment? If so, I saw your army on my walkthrough between turns at the Apoc table. Glad to hear you did well and enjoyed yourself.

[calypso2ts]

There were 3 SoB players there I believe. I played pure SoB, but I also checked out the other SoB armies while I walked around. There was one in white, the black and red you mentioned and each unit in mine is painted in legion colors - what greater traitors has humanity ever seen than those mutant astartes! The Sisters will be the Emperor's new hammer :)

 

Edit: I wish the apoc game hadnt been during the tournament, those boards were goregous and I would have loved to play in it.

[dswanick]

Indeed. Keep an eye on your local forums, I'm weighing the options for next years event - I, too, would like to have the Apoc game not compete with the main GT for players.

[ArmouredWing]

Two questions.....

 

1. Do you feel like sisters of battle are still a competative army in a tourney setting?

a. What are their downfalls and shortfalls?

b. What do they excel at? (other than the obvious short range fire)

c. Are the charecters even worth looking at?

 

2. I am about to finish Rynn's World and I am wanting to read up on some of their fluff and what not. What are some good books to pick up to get a feel for them?

Well, in terms of the questions posed in part 1 I'd initially say they are still competative but being of a superstitious persuasion i'll hold back until after the forthcoming ToS this weekend.

 

Their downfall definitely has to be the general lack of variety available to us when compared to the newer releases out there. The only other codex that offers less choice has to be necrons so we're pretty seriously trailing behind.

 

The other issue is the general lack of mechanised support available. Exorcists are the only long ranged heavy support that we possess and at 48" even that looks poor compared to some of the weapon ranges we're seeing out there. Immolators never really cut it in a HS role and are better used as a battle taxi for small units equipped to deliver a specific role on the table. That said they can be an excellent support for these units and their ability to move 12" and still fire makes a good light mechanised cavalry.

 

The other thing I find to be a bit of a bugbear is the lack of DS/Outflanking units available. Ok, so Seraphim can DS but in my opinion what they gained in 5th (DS & kept their version of H&R) was by far outweighed by what they lost (no longer scoring!). In the ideal world I'd like to see Dominions given the ability to outflank/infiltrate and at least then they'd have a valid role in a SoB force (pray to the emperor the Phil Kelly takes note and writes the codex).

 

That said we tend to make the most of. Being able to field a couple of templates in a unit has big advantages overall and 5th ed gave us a massive boost when it allowed us to roll up all of the wounds inflicted in a unit in one go, so 2 templates and a volley of bolter fire combined with Divine Guidance can make a nasty mess of the hardest units (termies beware!). Also being able to field big units can result in a very resilient unit for holding objectives even when considering their T3. The PA save more than makes up for the fact they can be fairly easiliy wounded.

 

The other thing to always bear in mind is the effect of Acts of Faith in the game. Thanks to these we have the ability to give them a boost that turns them into, well, whatever we want them to be really. Large squads can become pretty formidible when using DG or hand of the emperor (or both!) and suddenly an opponent can be faced with a S5 PW equipped squad on the roll of dice. Equally, when their numbers start to dwindle you can further turn the tables by making them invulnerable and striking at I5 that will usually mean they can last an extra couple of rounds beyond what your opponent would expect.

 

Also in an age where there is a proliferation of psychic powers the shield of faith is a massive advantage. There's been a number of times where this has really thrown a spanner in my opponent's works (Eldar & CSM being 2 fine examples). A standard psychic save across the entire infantry is not to be sniffed at.

 

In terms of the Special Characters I've never used Celestine as I fear the loss of FP's that ahppens when she dies the first time. Karamazov on the other hand is a firm favourite and has always performed above and beyond whenever I've used him. The fact that we've only got 2 SC's tends to be quite showing and looking at the way current codex releases go I'm left wondering how and what will be put into the mix to address this fact.

 

So, finally for the reference stuff? Well, as already mentioned there's 'Faith and Fire' by James Swallow which is the only BL SoB book available. There's also the previous C:SoB and current C:WH that also have reasonable amount of info in them but if you really want to find out more you could a lot worse than checking out the Dark Heresy Players Handbook that has quite a lot of info in it relating to SoB. Not cheap mind but a good point of info all the same.

[Requiemnex]

Took the day off to do some painting. Holy crap i hate painting white...... So far first rhino / immolator is looking nice.. needs a lot more work still though.

I have two books on ebay that i am looking at currently got highest bid on a 2nd edition sisters codex, a friend is giving me his witch hunter's codex. So hopefully this will supply me with all sorts of fluff.

 

You guys have given me a lot of feedback. I am thinking my first two or three local tourney will be blow outs because people dont understand faith and exorcist. Eventually they will learn and it will get a bit more challenging. I wish i could do some games before the tourney but there is a very active league going on currently and all the games people play are pretty much for the league.. (I am vested i the league as well with my xeno army). I will say white aside i do like painting the sisters tanks. It is something new and different. Stuff really pops.

 

I never really liked the idea of razorbacks but i guess i will need to learn with the immolators. I plan to run a flying nun to start and then decide from there if i want to pick up another canoness and give her a retinue.

 

Too bad our characters kind of suck. The are nice models and deserve to be seen on the table. That being said I am not sure there is way to put either model in the army and use it effectively.

 

I think my first game with the ladies will be the weekend of thanksgiving. I will post a battle report.

[calypso2ts]

Looking forward to hearing about the battle, good luck!

[andrewm9]

I also contend that if you're going up against an Imperial Guard gunline on planet bowling ball with the Inquisition you're not going to win. The army isn't designed for it. Both halves of the Inquisition function better with terrain, cover, limited lines of sight, and opportunities to utilize mobility (Daemon Hunters) and/or mechanization and jump troops (Witch Hunters) along with select infiltration (assassins) to break up enemy forces and nibble them away.

 

IST's are worse than Sisters in terms of basic statline, yes. However, they function perfectly well as anti-armor units with twin meltaguns, allowing your Sisters to blaze away at enemy infantry. They also have the utilitarian grenade launcher, and in the end a s3 ap5 gun isn't that much worse than a s4 ap5 gun. Acts of Faith are powerful, it's true, but they're also very limited in number.

 

The Chimera even with codex options of multilaser, heavy bolter and stormbolter adds much needed heavy weapons to the list. It's even a better deal if you utilize the Forgeworld rules (with the updated IA2 v1.3 update available on Forgeworld's site) which sets the points value at IG levels, and opens up the autocannon and heavy stubber as options. This now gives me 8 shots at 36" + range, with several shots that can threaten enemy transports and walkers. It's not for everyone, but it has definate uses.

 

Only having one Exorcist is a problem yes, that's why I pair it with a Land Raider. AV14 that can split it's fire with two twin-linked lascannons and take a significant pounding at range from most armies is definately useful. Now the opponent has a choice between targetting my Land Raider and targetting my Exorcist, or do they go after my two transports or after the other Sisters and Seraphim going after their units as well. It creates additional target priority issues.

 

Is it perfect? No. Would it be better with a more modern codex? Probably. But with an 1850 list I can address anti-armor firepower, anti-infantry firepower, Acts of Faith, multiple vehicles, anti-psyker, multiple scoring untis, and still have something that's fun for me to play. I'm probably not going to win a tourney, but I also don't play in tournies.

 

I present these things as options for someone to consider. There's other options I didn't even list, like melta-torpedos or penitent engines or eviscerators to handle armor. It's an approach that has worked for me and I find relative success with, so I keep going with it. In the end the most you can do is try things out and see what works for you.

 

No offense Nicole but I want to play Sisters not Sisters with some or a lot of IG. That sort of defeats the point IMO. I had a much longer explanation yesterday when I wrote my post but it kept cutting me off and I could not edit it( forum software interacting with the work firewall). Suffice to say my argument was talking about Sisters. A single Leman Russ doesn't cut it much either for fillign the holes other than makign it the target. The Land Riader isn't a bad idea and I have used it with mixed results but I'm sinkign a minimum of 30 extra points for the privilege of fielding one on top of the 250.

 

I guess you could take IST's if you are looking for an MSU list in Witch Hunters. Their squad size is important to look at. Its bargain 50 points for a troop squad whereas Sisters are 110 minimum. Sigh IG have all the cool toys and lots more of them. We'll just have to see when our new codex comes out. The entirety of our codex (Sisters, Inq, and Church) still doesn't meet the necessary requirments for strong, flexible, competive army. Its better than DH and Necrons though. I see it everytime I play. I'm winning more than losing but only just. I have the advantage of knowing my codex better than anyone else knows theirs. The more extras you add

[andrewm9]

Damn it did it again.

 

Here's the rest:

 

The more extras you add though from outside the Sisters the less effective the Sisters get. Sisters need those faith points in larger games.

 

My post wasn't strictly meant as a counter to you but to point out the current weaknesses of the army (which are many). No codex should have to farm in another to be effective in a tournament environment or even friendly competition.

[Inquisitor Fox]

No offense taken :) Playing with just the Sisters options of our WH Codex is a valid choice, it is sort of shooting yourself in the foot though.

 

I also have to disagree that IST's are Guard. They're not, it's our second Troops selection in our WH Codex. My own personal army is pure Witch Hunters without any allying or induction, I merely use more of the Inquisition options from our Codex than some people do. As far as I'm concerned if I'm playing with only the units listed in my WH Codex I'm not using Guard units ;)

 

At an 1850 or 2000 point game, I can have my Land Raider, two Chimeras, Exorcist, 3 scoring Troops, 4 total Sisters units, and 5 Faith Points. Depending on how I juggle things I could probably get an Immolator in there also. We do have options to battle some of our downsides (yes, those downsides are there), the biggest thing I see is that people are wanting to play a pure Sisters army then complain that pure Sisters don't have some of the options. This is true, pure Sisters don't. That's just the way it is with the current Codex. The Witch Hunters Codex as a whole though does have units to help address some of these problems if people are willing to use them (and this is without induction or allies). Yes it lessens the pool of total Faith Points, but sometimes those other options (particularly long range firepower) are worth the expenditure. Especially since I can put my Sisters in my Chimeras ;)