Why long fangs are just that good

[marine77]

I just wrote a short article about why long fangs seem to be the no-brainer choice of the Space Wolve heavy slots. You can find it here: Gone to Ground.

 

If you have any additional comments, criticisms, or compliments, please feel free to post them on my blog. Thanks!

[Grimtooth]

I just wrote a short article about why long fangs seem to be the no-brainer choice of the Space Wolve heavy slots. You can find it here: Gone to Ground.

 

If you have any additional comments, criticisms, or compliments, please feel free to post them on my blog. Thanks!

 

I only pick a LRR from my heavy slot when I have the room after Long Fangs and need a delivery systme for my BC (when I rarely play them).

[Sven Dragonfire]

I stopped using my LongFangs until the latest Codex was released, and now I use them for most battles. I have two squads which I also mix and match for differant point games. My favourite combo is two lascannons, two Heavy bolters, and a missile launcher, I also add a bulk standard wolf guard with a bolt gun to take the first wound. This keeps the pack leader splitting the fire which you need with this loadout. And yeah when the enemy charge expecting them to roll over and die like normal devastators they get a bit of a surprise, nice. Only prob is if the terrain layout forces you to move to a better position in the first couple of turns. Been toying with the idea of a unit armed with just heavy bolters - 6 Lfangs inc squad leader - 115 pts = 15 st5 shots . Good infantry stopper! Led by Logan and they can move and fire! Relentless - yeah I know Im getting carried away now. Nice article by the way, agree with most of it, especially the whirlwind comment - dug it out the loft for a game other week, packed it away again and sealed up the box, tragic.

[marine77]

Thanks Sven. I will admit that my experience with long fangs doesn't go much beyond taking missile-only units, but I think they can have some crazy units. Over on YTTH, it was suggested to put melta fangs in a drop pod with logan. That would be nasty as well.

[littlbitz]

Nice article, it does mention some good points.

 

I can't really say that I agree with your statement, that every Space Wolf army should start with 3 packs of them.

 

I don't use any at all at the moment, and I do just fine most of the time.

 

But, like your statement, mine is just an opinion.

 

I am thinking of a pack that I am going to build, but being the individualistic and hard headed Wolf Lord that I am, I am going to go all Heavy Bolters. The amount of Foot slogging armies out there with right now, combined with the coming of the Dark Eldar, I have a sneaky suspicion that the humble Heavy Bolter is going to be a very cool weapon to have.

[marine77]

I can totally see heavy bolters becoming more useful, but I love missile launchers for their duality. I can always switch to frag missiles against infantry armies.

[Aeddon]

While I certainly can appreciate the concept of Longfangs, I don't think I'd ever use them. They are just too static for the way I play my army.

[marine77]

I may be way off, but static firepower doesn't necessarily mean you can't have an active/mobile army. Part of the beauty of long fangs is that they can take weapons with very long ranges. Thus, they can reach the far edges of the table without having to move.

[the jeske]

While I certainly can appreciate the concept of Longfangs, I don't think I'd ever use them. They are just too static for the way I play my army.

how are they less static then the rest of stuff SW can use , specialy as you dont have access to MM melta attack bike squads ?

[Grey Mage]

While I certainly can appreciate the concept of Longfangs, I don't think I'd ever use them. They are just too static for the way I play my army.

how are they less static then the rest of stuff SW can use , specialy as you dont have access to MM melta attack bike squads ?

Speeders... rhinos.... vindicators... raiders... dreads.... swiftclaws....

 

Like most heavy weapon teams LFs have to stand still to shoot- so if he wants an army thats in its opponents DZ early on and stays there, LFs might not work well for him.

[the jeske]

raiders you pay 250 pts for 2 las you can almost have 2 LF squads for that [specialy if you put a squad inside , but then it doest realy do anti tank ] . vindis are realy bad tanks , single weapon low armor , short range means opponent has 1 turn free of shoting before they get in range and when they are in range they may end up stuned . so they maybe are mobile , but not anti tank . speeders have huge problems with LoS because of the skimer base offten puting them taler then terrain and again runing 2 tyfons costs more then a unit of LF with RL that has more shots , again cant be stuned etc . swift class are fast and can pack a lot of melta and can be made cheap , if one runs them just as anti tank squads without a babysiter HQ [because with one they cost too much to just anti tank] , problem is they have BC BS which drops melta efficiency . now that can work in armies like IG where you get tons of shots and a lot of cheap sacrificial units , swift claws in cheap and specialy in the expensive version take just too much of a normal force to pick them over LF in a SW list to do anti tank.

 

 

Like most heavy weapon teams LFs have to stand still to shoot- so if he wants an army thats in its opponents DZ early on and stays there, LFs might not work well for him.

and with how much of an army does he deep strike on turn 1 to blow up 2-3 squads of LF , 2-3 squads of GH [which due to rhinos will be in melta and/or plasma double tap range] , to reguraly achive that against SW army builds .

[Sturm Moonwolf]

I always use LF's, most games 2 packs nowadays. CML WG with 5 ML's is such a sweet touch of elegance. Throw a Priest with them, priceless.

[marine77]

I find the discussion on static to be interesting. Static might mean, not moving, but from a strategy perspective, I see static as being unable to have an influence on other portions of the board (i.e. a wraithlord with two flamers and wraithsword). Long fangs don't strike me as static because they have such a long range. They can affect almost any area of the board if placed well. So can tanks. The difference comes in 1) points cost effectiveness, 2)durability, and 3) flexibility. It is my belief that long fangs exhibit better effectiveness for their points than any other heavy slot, are more durable due to their inability to be stunned and the ability to have cover, and they are flexible in many case because a) they can take a wide array of heavy weapons and :D many weapons can fulfill dual rolls (i.e. the missile launcher's frag and krak missiles). So, do they move much in a game? No. Are they static? Not so much. They actually benefit a highly mobile army by providing supressive and anti-tank fire.

[Grey Mage]

The danger though is that they are static- far reaching as you point out, but static- and if your army is mobile enough to far outpace them you can leave them unsupported, vulnerable, and easy to kill.

 

Of course, theyre cheap enough that most people wont even consider that a potential issue. For others it may be a matter of slots- after all, many a wolf lord loves his vindicators, and I for one wont go to tourney without a WW in a mech force.

[marine77]

@GreyMage. I find your statement interesting. What is your draw to the whirlwind? I just can't wrap my head around why anyone would take an AV11 tank with a low strength weapon, even though it fires a template. What do you see in the tank?

[Sven Dragonfire]

I would say against mass low armoured troops, Guard etc the whirlwind could be a great addition,( excellent for digging Guard out of cover) if you can use the terrain to protect it, and rely on its barrage ability, but it is really poor against power armoured troops , in my experience needs a lot of lucky dice to earn its own points value, when 90% of the time my opponents are Power armoured.

 

My wolves charge forward and my longfangs give covering fire, point for point the cheapest, most flexible covering fire you may find, what difference does it make they get left behind? Their job is to give covering fire while my assault units push forward, which with wolves is usually a lot of units. There have been times in the closing stages of a battle, they have nothing to fire at but by then they have usualy done their job. If your opponent sends units away from your main assault to eliminate the longfangs then you can counter or ignore it whatever suits your plan , and dont forget longfangs are as good as many other army assault troops in CC. If they draw fire then they will usually survive longer than a tank ( landraider not included) and that is less fire on your assaulting force, happy days.

[Aeddon]

To answer some of the speculation on what type of list I use, I typically use between one and three drop pods containing two packs of Grey Hunters and a Ven Dread; a pack of Grey Hunters in a Rhino; Scouts; Blood Claws in a LRC; a rifleman dread; one or two Rune Priests, ect. My list is designed to attack the opponent from multiple angles and avenues but the overall consistency in it is mobility of forces.

 

Once again, I'm not trying to argue against Long Fangs, I'm saying that they just don't do what I'd like them to do.

[marine77]

Aeddon. I don't think anyone thinks you are arguing. I just thought your statement was interesting and it made me think about how we use the term static. It made me think about whether or not I think long fangs truly are static. I thank you for bringing that point up.

[Grey Mage]

@GreyMage. I find your statement interesting. What is your draw to the whirlwind? I just can't wrap my head around why anyone would take an AV11 tank with a low strength weapon, even though it fires a template. What do you see in the tank?

Hehe... I love the smell of Napalm in the morning.

 

Anywho, lets see- its 85pts. Thats a major draw right there because even if its not going to be the most excellent at what it does its cheap enough that Im giving up very little to use it. However, Ive found that such is only an issue if it gets destroyed early, or Im fighting Necrons.

 

Why? Well because its not low strength, its strength five. Against most horde armies, and all Eldar, Im wounding on a 2+ and likely killing outright. Roll that around for a moment- Ballistic skill is a non issue, it wounds on a 2+, and it kills outright against about 75% of the units in not 1, not 2, but 4 armies, and wounds on a 3+ killing outright against 80% of orks, the fifth army. Thats a third of the armies in 40k right there. Tau Firewarriors? Roast chicken on a stick. Howling Banshees? Howling in pain maybe.....

 

But it gets better. S5 also wounds marines on a 3's, wich means if I hit 10 guys Ill get 6-7 wounds and probly kill 2 of them, forcing a pinning check. Sure, they might not get pinned and I might not get 10 guys- On average I find I get around 7-8 hits, and kill 2-3, thats as much dakka as the predator, but I dont have to see their ugly faces. But if I get 5 thats still an average of one dead per round. If I kill a single marine each round Ive made back my points- 16*6=96pts. Thats all I can reasonably ask a unit to do. And of course.... then theres its specialty- flushing things out.

 

Got Eldar Pathfinders in a ruin with a 2+ cover save? Whirlwind will fix that. Got Sniper Scouts with Camo Cloaks in a Reinforced Ruin? Whirlwind can fix that too. How many times have you wanted to eradicate an IG command squad in cover? Heres your answer.

 

Got Lootas in the backfield that you dont want to expose anything to? Indirect fire is the place to go. Want to take out the aspect warriors fleeting towards you behind a building? Yeah, whirlwinds got that handled too.

 

And sure, its only S5 on a good day, but its still Ordnance. You know what that means? 2d6 and pick the highest for armor penetration. I can take out raiders, trucks, chimeras.... all sorts of fun and nasty enemy transports and artillery are mine to destroy- and the unit gaurding them might get hit too. After ballistic skill its the same as firing a heavy bolter at it, wich is certainly not horrible even if its not as ideal as an autocannon. Remember though, thats popping a raider on the other side of a peice of terrain, turn 1.

 

Its cheap, versatile, and potent. What more could I ask of a tank? I own three of them for apocalypse games and the occaisional Tyranid Deathwave scenario my group runs. While I wouldnt reccommend owning 3 to most players, one of them will help you against alot of opponents.

[Zynk Kaladin]

The whirlwind has saved my butt numerous times against Tyranid players and their pesky Tervagons. What point is crapping out termagaunts when they just die next turn? Grey Mage has the right idea. It's not the end all be all artillery piece, but for its points it does admirably.

 

On long fangs: I hate fighting these guys. They're one of the prime reasons why I've started assaulting Space Wolves. Who in their right mind would even think a vanilla marine army could go toe to to in CC against the Wolves!? You'd be surprised it catches many people off guard and throws a speed bump in their plans. But yea... pesky long fangs.

 

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every moment of it.

[Niiai]

I saw I got to this thread a bit late:

 

"Whirlwinds- Does anyone take these?" I found this argument a bit weak, for reasons GM have pointed out.

 

I have also had the pleasure of running 2 long fang squads up againts a SM gunline/razor spam witch had a drop pod to take out one of my longs fangs early on, leaving me with one pack of long fangs. There was so mutch else to focus on but the Long Fangs where shot on each round by the whirldwinds. They where nasty. I would not like to know what it would be like withouth power armour.

[Pro Shoggoth Grappler]

Im confused as to why people are thinking that wolves are an assault army. If you want assault then blood angels are the way to go. Wolves do shootan like nobody else.

 

Check out this army

 

 

Logan-275

 

Rune priest-115

Jaws, lightning, chooser of the slain, melta bombs.

 

5 wolf scouts-110

1 melta gun, melta bombs

 

10 wolf guard-300

2 combi meltas 2 with terminator armor, cyclone launchers, power fists,

 

5 wolf guard-150 x3

1 combi melta, 1 with terminator armor, cyclone launchers, power fist,

 

x3 Wolf cav-110 x3

Thunderhammer, storm shield

 

6 long fangs-140 x2

5 missile launchers

 

6 long fangs-140

5 multi meltas

 

It dumps 20 missiles on you a turn, it cant be shaken or stunned. Its mean. Armies in general dont make it across the table against it. It doesnt feel static at all. Long fangs can reach out and touch somebody with the wrath of their spiritual liege, roboute guilliman. Fangs a great unit, they are cheap, they kill both light to medium armor and hordes of infantry. Did I mention cheap?

[Zynk Kaladin]

Im confused as to why people are thinking that wolves are an assault army.

 

'Cus they have SHARP pointy teeth!

[Niiai]

Im confused as to why people are thinking that wolves are an assault army. If you want assault then blood angels are the way to go. Wolves do shootan like nobody else.

 

Check out this army

 

 

Logan-275

 

Rune priest-115

Jaws, lightning, chooser of the slain, melta bombs.

 

5 wolf scouts-110

1 melta gun, melta bombs

 

10 wolf guard-300

2 combi meltas 2 with terminator armor, cyclone launchers, power fists,

 

5 wolf guard-150 x3

1 combi melta, 1 with terminator armor, cyclone launchers, power fist,

 

x3 Wolf cav-110 x3

Thunderhammer, storm shield

 

6 long fangs-140 x2

5 missile launchers

 

6 long fangs-140

5 multi meltas

 

It dumps 20 missiles on you a turn, it cant be shaken or stunned. Its mean. Armies in general dont make it across the table against it. It doesnt feel static at all. Long fangs can reach out and touch somebody with the wrath of their spiritual liege, roboute guilliman. Fangs a great unit, they are cheap, they kill both light to medium armor and hordes of infantry. Did I mention cheap?

 

I do not agree that we are shooty like nobody else. Regular Space Marines are more shooty because they get a heavy weapons team in the troop department while we do not. One lascannon is hard to take out when he has 5 wounds. Yes we can take long fangs, but there they can take whirld winds and predators or the weard earthshaker gun. They also have snipers in troops and loads of shooty over all. We are not a close combat army, but we are a close and personal army. (Read rapid fire/melta range.)

[antique_nova]

that army seriously relies on your twc and logan to do all the bashing. not very good against tyranids or ba army and the de now. your assuming that you kill have los to everything and anything almost. an out flanking army will negate your long fangs completely and your logan unit.

thanks

antique_nova