Unsuccessful at being even adequate

[slmellon]

It seems no matter what I do, I cant be in the least bit competitive. Either my deployment sucks, my zeal, or most often than not my dice seem to kill me. Or maybe its my lists. I cant seem to get away from my 200+ pt Lord who doesnt break me, but doesnt make me either. I dont have the models for TWC and cant seem to but together the right combo of units to do well. I would assume sticking with one basic list be better than trying to tweak it all the time. I feel I have a solid core and only do minor tweaks to fill out for points. I just dont know what to do. Its frustrating.

[CainTheHunter]

Start with strip Your list down to basics - 3+ GH troops and 2-3 Long Fangs. How many points are we talking about and what type of lists - mech/foot/drop pod?

[slmellon]

My core is 3 GHs and 3 LFs. I have three pods and three rhinos so I can go either way I just never seem to do well no matter how I do. I am going to try the Wolf Standards to see about fixing my dice rolls and I just need to get smarter about deploying I guess. I think its just me being a terrible general. I am sure anyone else could take my list and be super duper!

[Wysten]

We will need a list set in order to determine what we need to do for you. Including verious equipment.

[Aeddon]

Wanna give us your general force make-up? 3GH & 3LF tends to be a competetive build but what you put in each squad makes a lot of difference as well. Also, break down to us how you use each unit. Is this zeal you speak of like a Bloodclaw's tendancy to rush into the fray without regard to anything else? Do you generally approach each game with a set plan for your army or do you play it by ear? Are you proactive or reactive? There is a lot more that you need to explain if you want to get useful advice from us.

 

Also, I find this to be a great resource.

 

http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/

 

Read through their unit breakdown articles, you'll find them on the right-hand side of the page. While I do not follow all of the things that they do I can certainly say that they have a lot of great ideas on how to play SW's well and they have even changed my mind on a lot of things in our codex.

[slmellon]

Basic Core List:

 

WL- Frost Axe, SS, RA, SoBear, WTN

 

RP- SB, Chooser (And normally the wrong pyschic powers---when do you pick those, I use ArmyBuilder and its part of the list, but wouldnt it be better to pick them dependant on what you are playing (tempests wrath doeant work against foot sloggers!)

 

3x(9 GHs - PF, WS, Melta w/WG C-Melta PF) Need the dual fists for the numerous MCs the people I play bring. Will add Plasmagun GH if foot slogging. Have DPs and Rhinos for each

 

LF 3xLC ML

LF 3xPC ML

LF 4xML

 

Have at My disposal:

LRC MM SB

HB Razor

4x Bikes, Attk Bike w/HB

WG in various makes

Arjac

Pack of BCs

Pack of GHs

RP

Ulrik

WP SB

Land Speeder

6xScouts

 

I used to play very fluffy, lets go and kill every thing!!!Was not successful, I try to be more thoughtful in my approach but sometimes (a lot) I fail to see the whole board as I am going through my phases (in the same way I am terrible at chess). My friends say it is lack of gaming experience, sometimes I go for months without playing. My last game was against Orks and it was the dice, he was rolling 5s and 6s and I was rolling 1s and 2s.

[CainTheHunter]

And where does "the ever present" Wolf Lord go? And the Rune Priest? I'd try to skip that Wolf Lord for a game or two and take a second Rune Priest instead. This means that You'll have better chances to pick the right powers. Personally, I always start with Living Lightning and then think about the second one.

[slmellon]

The WL goes in place of a GH in a rhino or dp, with them slogging or in big point games in the LRC with 10 GHs and WG. Maybe I will drop the Lord for a game or two and see.

[Aeddon]

Like Cain said, but in addition I'd say that a Wolf Lord is a bit of a large investment for most games. Living Lightning is a great default power to choose so start with that one and add to your personal taste thereafter and yes you need to pick them at the same time you pick your list. Scouts tend to work well for me but they were (admittedly) difficult to use correctly at first.

 

I would stay away from the unique characters until you get some more experience under your belt. And for that matter, try getting in games more frequently. If possible, as a more experienced friend to run some learning game with you so you can see better where your errors are.

 

Besides dice, do you know what exactly it is that is making things go poorly for you?

[TiguriusX]

RP powers are set at the time you make your list

 

No changes based on opponent allowed

 

Don't focus on what you do poorly...what are your strengths? What do you remember working? What do you enjoy as a player?

 

If you don't mind being honestly (maybe painfully) critiqued we can get started on rebuilding you with input from the entire Wolf Pack

[slmellon]

I really dont care that I win or lose, mostly, I play for the fun of playing. I just dont like not being the guy who is the worst player in my group. My wife is letting me out of the house more so the games are coming more often now. I dont really see my strengths, or at least none come to mind. I try to learn and apply things I have learned from you guys through posts on the B&C, but some how stuff just doesnt work out in my favor. I know what I should do, like shoot at X or stay away from Y, but somehow My shots dont get off and I cant avoid that MC I cant hurt. Its always something.

 

I enjoy the game so much, its fun, I get to hang out and talk about the game before and after.

 

I am in the Army, so I know all about being critiqued, I normally ask after games for a quick "what could we have done different" session. Maybe I should start putting Battle Reports on here so you could see what is happening.

 

I am all about the critiques.

[TiguriusX]

Maybe I should start putting Battle Reports on here so you could see what is happening.

 

I am all about the critiques.

 

Sounds like a good start to me.

 

I love reading batreps and giving my take on lists so I'm all aboard this project

 

Are you going to use your current list as a starting point or start a custom list from the get go?

 

IMO the 200pt WL is an anchor on your list. Best result if you do the full investment for TWC or focus on other HQ units.

 

For example, if "luck" is your crutch you may want 2xWPs for the same cost. Put each one in a different GH pack and reroll to your heart's desire etc. Nice combo results with PFs and Wolf standards and WPs

[slmellon]

This weekend I will be playing at a buddy's house think will be 2000 pts. Mostly likely to see:

Orks (possibly with if he brings the same list) 3x 30 ork mobs (2 shoota 1 slugga), Thraka, 2 3 Killa Kan squadrons with Mig Mek w/ Force Field, a big mob of lootas and Commandos with Snikrot.

Eldar (unless he completely changes his list) Eldrad w/ Seers, 2x Dire Avengers, Farseer w/Warlocks (all in Serpents) Wraithguard x10 with spiritseer, 3 War Walkers, Wraithlord

Then either another similar Eldar list, or a BA list of some sort, depends on my third friend.

[breng77]

I think the thing to remember is that it is best to play a list that suits your playstyle. Which we will see if you put reports up. Generally speaking 3 GH and 3 LF are good, but that is with optimized units (Missile Launcher LF are usually most cost effective, and you are running them differently) Long Fangs are a very static unit however, and if you are a more agressive player they may not work for you (they are always good, but spending points on units that fit your style is better)

[slmellon]

I think the thing to remember is that it is best to play a list that suits your playstyle. Which we will see if you put reports up. Generally speaking 3 GH and 3 LF are good, but that is with optimized units (Missile Launcher LF are usually most cost effective, and you are running them differently) Long Fangs are a very static unit however, and if you are a more agressive player they may not work for you (they are always good, but spending points on units that fit your style is better)

 

My LFs normally do very well for me, and eventually I will probably get more MLs so I can get more out of them.

My playstyle is probably too aggressive for my own good. Like this last weekend, charging a Mob of 25ish boys with my GHs instead of letting them come to me and shooting them down before they got there.

[TiguriusX]

My playstyle is probably too aggressive for my own good. Like this last weekend, charging a Mob of 25ish boys with my GHs instead of letting them come to me and shooting them down before they got there.

 

In general that is the proper response.

 

Shoot em up as they approach then charge them first and prevent them from getting bonuses in combat

 

If you went racing towards them like a bloodthirsty blood claw you don't get your ale rations today

[slmellon]

My playstyle is probably too aggressive for my own good. Like this last weekend, charging a Mob of 25ish boys with my GHs instead of letting them come to me and shooting them down before they got there.

 

In general that is the proper response.

 

Shoot em up as they approach then charge them first and prevent them from getting bonuses in combat

 

If you went racing towards them like a bloodthirsty blood claw you don't get your ale rations today

 

Thinking about it, it was more of the charge him before he charges me. What killed me was having to move my LFs into position, the cover was 13 inches in, deployment was 12. Thats two weeks in a row. Positioning my Fangs is something I need to work on.

[breng77]

A question to as yourself is do they even need to be in cover. Against a foe like orks the answer is probably no. You just need good lanes of fire.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

You mentioned earlier that you were fighting against a lot of MC's. If you do that, bring Arjac instead of your lord. He tears into MC's and cannot be targetted directly. Arjac+ Grey HUnters with wolf totem, then whatever else you want to give them.

 

But looking at you were saying that you would be up against. Characters with saga of the beastslayer would benefit you. If your RP is getting into combat with T5 models, this will be a big advantage to you. You can always bring Ulrik, he does it better than anyone.

 

Make sure your Grey Hunters have the Wolf Totem, ALWAYS!!! PF is unnecessary because after the charge you are paying a lot of points for one PF attack. I know you say you fight monstrous creatures... but use arjac to kill them instead.

[Max_Dammit]

I dont game much and got clobberd my 2 first tornys, just by thinking, stay away from him and do this

 

The last torny i went to i just forgot that and just went for it, did my thing and not react to much on what someone else was doing, I became 2nd.

 

Stop being careful and just go all in. This way you'll lose some games but you know what something can and cant do in experience and not from what is being told here.

[Wysten]

Aye, I would repeat what was said about the long Fangs. While the Laz is good, because of their ability it may be better to spread the Laz with a rough 3 to 2 ratio of missle to cannon.

 

In orks cause, you should definately wait for them to come to you and try to focus your efforts on blasting one group at a time or keeping the objective while preventing last minute assualts on yours. a general idea to deal with extremely mobile lists is land speeders armed with heavy flamer and mult-melta, for a humble 70 points, it can engage hordes, beasts and armour equally as well for the turn it is still around. Reserve it and whenever it arrives, it will arrive at mostly the right time for the desired effect. Hehehe.

[TiguriusX]

You mentioned earlier that you were fighting against a lot of MC's. If you do that, bring Arjac instead of your lord. He tears into MC's and cannot be targetted directly. Arjac+ Grey HUnters with wolf totem, then whatever else you want to give them.

 

This is actually a good suggestion if you are attached to the idea of using a WL type close combat monster.

 

Arjac is superior to a foot slogging 200+pt WL

 

Pros

-He has a S10 TH that can be used as a ranged weapon

-*T4 not T5

-He has special rules to absolutely maul ICs and MCs

-The best special rule of all...he is NOT an IC so he can't be targetted (do not underestimate this ability...you can walk up to Mephiston with this type of protection using wound allocation to the rest of the unit)

-He even counts as scoring if you attach him to *troops* (i.e., your GHs).

-He costs fewer points

 

Cons

-You give up attacks at I5

-You give up the ability to chase down units that flee b/c of TDA

-You lose 1 point of LD

-You footslog or get an expensive transport

[Rocknar]

I recommend scouts. Load out 2 power weapons, Meltagun, mark of wolfen, and a WG with Frost blade/cobi-melta and all w/melta bombs. Use them to charge eldar tanks after your long fangs have stunned them, and against orks to screen your LF against Snikrot. I also recommend a WG with Cyclone Missile launcher to one of the long fangs.

List would have

GH W/Arjac

GH W/RP

GH W/WG or other HQ

 

LF 3xLC 1 ML

LF 3xPC 1 ML

LF 4xML WG W/cyclone

 

5 Scouts W/WG

GH need to be fully loaded with Mark of Wolfen, Standard, Meltagun, and power weapon(PF is just too expensive), maybe a plasma pistol

 

Most important is to keep a list for several game to see how it plays

[Ranwulf]

If you are fighting so many MC, try a Lone Wolf in Termie armor. It works pretty well with some Long Fangs supporting him.

 

Long Fangs works with Missile Launchers, at least cost efficency, and they can ignore most MC 3+ SV(Frag).

 

Wolf Lords are better to be with UBER Units, such as Termies and Thunderwolf Cavalry.

 

A good away to evolve while playing is making Battle Reports, so you will learn your mistakes and others can call out for others.

 

Ran

[slmellon]

I recommend scouts. Load out 2 power weapons, Meltagun, mark of wolfen, and a WG with Frost blade/cobi-melta and all w/melta bombs. Use them to charge eldar tanks after your long fangs have stunned them, and against orks to screen your LF against Snikrot. I also recommend a WG with Cyclone Missile launcher to one of the long fangs.

List would have

GH W/Arjac

GH W/RP

GH W/WG or other HQ

 

LF 3xLC 1 ML

LF 3xPC 1 ML

LF 4xML WG W/cyclone

 

5 Scouts W/WG

GH need to be fully loaded with Mark of Wolfen, Standard, Meltagun, and power weapon(PF is just too expensive), maybe a plasma pistol

 

GHx8 Melta MotF Totem WG Combi M PF in Rhino RP

GHx8 Melta MotF Totem WG Combi M PF in Rhino WP

GHx7 Melta MotF Totem WG Combi M PF in Droppod Arjac (Dropping close to my own forward line of advance 18" in or so)

GHx6 Melta MotF Totem WG Combi M PF in Rhino RP (Sitting Back to Hold OBJ)

LF 3xLC 1 ML

LF 3xPC 1 ML

LF 4xML WG W/cyclone

5 Scouts Motf Melta MBombs W/WG Combi M PF

Total 1999