JOTWW Debate

[BrotherCaptainJames]

Hey all, I have a question about JOTWW that came up in a debate the other day. When using JOTWW against a model that is equipped with a weapon that drops his Initiative to 1 (i.e. powerfist, powerklaw, thunder hammer, etc) is the initiative test taken against the modified or unmodified Initiative?? Thanks!

[slmellon]

Base Initiative with no Modifiers. Too bad, too, because I Shot it at Ghaz this weekend and it would have helped!!!

[TiguriusX]

The initiative tested against for JAWS is the profile ("characteristic test")

 

PF etc. attacks are"delivered" at I1 but the profile does not change.

 

There is a potential loophole if you are the victim of a TH strike and the next phase you have "I1" but that is a different concern for another post I'm sure.

[tahrikmili]

The weapon does not drop the model to I1, he strikes at I1 when using that weapon only. So no, regular I.

[BrotherCaptainJames]

Right, such as Arjac's thrown hammer... ok, so it's unmodified Initiative unless hit by T Hammers. Thanks! Either way the debate was pointless, I one shot Ghaz when he rolled a 6 for his Initiative test not to mention 3 Nobs to boot lol. Twas a good game lads!

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Right, such as Arjac's thrown hammer... ok, so it's unmodified Initiative unless hit by T Hammers. Thanks! Either way the debate was pointless, I one shot Ghaz when he rolled a 6 for his Initiative test not to mention 3 Nobs to boot lol. Twas a good game lads!

 

Make sure your foe is happy for you to get the Thunder Hammer stun when Arjac throws it.

 

It never says so in the weapons shooting profile. It doesn't matter that it is a TH in mêlée.

 

Just make sure, so you don't get surprised during games. Heads are cooler before the game :P

[TiguriusX]

Right, such as Arjac's thrown hammer... ok, so it's unmodified Initiative unless hit by T Hammers. Thanks! Either way the debate was pointless, I one shot Ghaz when he rolled a 6 for his Initiative test not to mention 3 Nobs to boot lol. Twas a good game lads!

 

Make sure your foe is happy for you to get the Thunder Hammer stun when Arjac throws it.

 

It never says so in the weapons shooting profile. It doesn't matter that it is a TH in mêlée.

 

Just make sure, so you don't get surprised during games. Heads are cooler before the game :P

 

Listen to the man in the skirt...he knows Space Wolves and the intricate details of our codex

[BrotherCaptainJames]

I mentioned Arjacs thrown hammer specifically because that's how we play it :) But thanks for looking out, it's appreciated!!

[Ranwulf]

No. Profile Initiative.

 

Which is why makes Special Characters harder to kill with that power(thank god, because that would be EVEN MORE OP)

 

Ran

[Stormbrow II]

The only time something will test with a reduced I is when its been battered by a Hammer in combat in the previous combat (which has to be the enemy's turn) and you draw a line through your original target and it passes under the model's base whilst engaged.

 

I love pulling off evil stuff like that.

[Stormshrug]

No. Profile Initiative.

 

Which is why makes Special Characters harder to kill with that power(thank god, because that would be EVEN MORE OP)

 

Ran

 

It's not actually *that* powerful if you take its expected value over a course of battles.

 

By comparison, Living Lightning is pretty much never not useful, but it isn't as devastating when it hits the right target at the right time, either. Still, Living Lightning is going to be cast a lot more often, and will probably inflict more wounds (and vehicle damage results, too, which JotWW can't do at all) in the long run. JotWW is utterly dead weight against a number of armies, and fairly weak against many others.

 

What people (somewhat fairly) don't like about it is that the player whose model is on the line doesn't get to do ANYTHING. People don't like that helplessness to save their high-value models, and so the ability seems much more powerful than its actual expected value over the course of a game (or a number of games). They like to roll their Invul saves, even if in all probability they won't make enough for the model to survive.

 

Not to say that it doesn't swing games, because it does.

 

-Stormshrug

[Tracer Bullet]

Actually a question I have about using JoTWW is can you use a vehicle for a target even though it won't be affected? I just had a game tonight where a big melee involving a fair number of terminators was going on just on the other side of a Land Raider. Everyone was locked in combat so I couldn't target them specifically, and I also wanted to melta the LR. So I was curious if I could cast the power using the LR as the target, though there would be no effect on the vehicle obviously, and just line up with the guys on the other side that were locked in combat.

 

It seemed reasonable but I decided not to try since I could foresee a rules debate and it wasn't really going to change much in the game anyway. Basically can you target a model/unit that the power can't actually affect to try and catch other units that are locked in combat?