The Shiny Ones aka the Crushing Hands (edit)

[The Shiny One]

Hello everyone!

 

This is my first thread in B&C. And this is my first rough draft on an renegade chapter a would like to build someday. I have a rather fix idea how the Marines will look in the end, but have no time and resources modelling them at the moment. But i am still flexible and know that a few of you might not like the outcome.

 

EDIT: the first version i will not use anymore.

 

And here is the new version:

 

 

The Shiny Ones are mysterious creature that remind of space marines formed out of living metal that colorfully glows.

 

Little is know about the essence of this beings. They suddenly appear bringing havoc to the ones present, if not fought back they could be able to destroy cities. but they are strangely drawn to battles and worthy opponents.

 

 

So how did it came to this, is everyone asking.?

 

This is the story of the brotherhood of the crushing hand or simply the crushing hands.

 

Founded in the great 21st founding there destiny of doom seems clear now. But back than the high lords of terra had good intensions. They tried to cure the defect in the iron hands genseed, to secure more use of there noble successors.

 

First every thing went normal. The Lords of terra sent the new chapter to secure the north-eastern regions of the Ultima Segmentum to protect the empire from new threats. For this purpose the Adeptus Mechanicus agreed in consideration of there ties to the glorious iron hands to hand over the mighty space fortress Testonia and two forgeships to make certain that the chapter could operate efficient so far away from terra and mars.

 

They executed there task very well, and fought glorious battles against the all kind of xenos and renegades that would cross there path. They followed the codex as they should and showed no signs of hatred against the flesh of there own bodies.

 

The recruited from all kind of different worlds. There Liberians kept informed about great warriors on the planets the chapterfortress passed. they would not recruit this heros because they were formed fighters, but they would take there sons from them on board the Testonia and start to transform them, when the surpass the tests (This could be more elaborated if you like). Knowing this was not the most efficient way of recruiting, they had no need to change it because they newer encountered a enemy they couldn't defeat.

 

This was until they started to encounter the wraithwarriors of Iyanden.

They attacked quit friendly living eldar as one of the usual opponents. But provoking with this killing the rage of the low numbered craftworld. This lead to the epic battle on the exodite world of Khalantar, where the chapter lost the almost three whole companies including the mighty first one with there chaptermaster.

 

The chapter was stunned by this event and quit desprerate, they turned to the wise liberians for advice. They came to the hard to bear truth that they all overestimated there power. From this time on the chapter became obsessed with the thought of improving itself in different ways.

The librarium started not only searching for mighty warriors but also for psychics, to improve the defense against the eldar farseers and warlocks.

Impressed by the performance of the fleshless wraithguard they defect in the iron hand genseed awake and the marines became obsessed with finding ways of improving there armor and substitute there weak flesh and bones.

The Belief that the flesh is weak and so the mind has to be strong began to dawn in the chapter.

 

 

 

Its not finished only up to the point where they either fall to chaos (the easy way) or they simply overachieve with a failed experiment?

[Ace Debonair]

Hello everyone!

Hello. Welcome to the Liber!

 

Firstly, I'm going to reccomend reading the DIY guide stickied at the top of the forum. It's a long read, but it's chock-full of great information.

 

Now, onto the stuff you've written.

Founded around M35.

The Genseed is probably a combination of Salamanders, Raven Guard and Iran Hands.

Chapters are highly unlikely to have geneseed mixed in this fashion. Besides, each of those geneseeds presents different issues that you and your chapter have to deal with.

 

mobile chapter castle, because nearly no life in the istvaan sector. crusade against csm. cruising in the isvaan sector and the whole the Segmentum Ultima

very independent, because of salamander and iron hands talent to handle machines and raven guard unreligious understanding of things. Deep hatred agains betrayal. recruiting while on crusade.

I've never heard of this before, I must say. I didn't think the RG were any more or less pious than other chapters.

 

After the disaster Liberians take the leadingrole in the chapter because of there wisdom in tough times (they keep cool). They have a tendency to record everything (this could be from before, because there tie to history), they develop an urge to understand the system behind things to prevent disasters and a despise against drop pods, because the are now seen as death traps, that eliminate a possible retreat when needed.

The Liberians develop tactics of Teleportation and master the gate of infinity. Because of this the chapter beginning to prefer psychic aspirants and because its easier to find them on a world while recruiting.

They develop a tendency to stick to them selfs and only fight as a whole chapter no splitting up in different crusades (500-700 Marines)

Please tell me your chapter isn't teleported into battle by librarians. :blink:

Also, using a whole chapter in most battles is like using a boulder to crush an ant - very often a company is sufficient, and, importantly, prevents any disasters from damaging the whole chapter. ;)

 

But Many of the Psychic talented Brothers (100-200) are able to escape via teleportation on the smallest of the chapters cruisers and suddenly disappear.

Having two companies worth of Librarians is rather too many, I think.

 

The goal is it to have a army of only something like obliterators and the legion of the dammed. I dont like the official Models but i really like the concept. I think the new Grey Knights next year could be able to represent this type of warfare quite well. And since it is impossible to make a grey knight successor chapter this is my creative attempt to do so.

 

So whats your thoughts on the subject? I can understand that some of you might not like it. Never the less feel free to comment after reading and thank you for doing so.

 

Well, you're not short on creativity, that's for sure.

But I think you'd benefit enormously from reading the DIY guide at the top of the forum. It'll help you channel that creativity into making a workable, believable chapter. :D

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Ace is one of the kindest, gentlest and humorous souls in the Liber, and also one of the best at giving good advice so I think a word of warning.

 

There are a lot of holes present in your first draft and while it is a first draft, it may be that not everyone will be quite so reasonable in the instruction of said flaws as Ace was.

 

In other words, be prepared.

 

 

To be honest I don't know how he keeps up such a charming demeanor in the face of what the Liber sometimes sees posted within it's halls that has to be purged with extreme prejudice. :P

[The Shiny One]

beside SM Fluff, i only read how hard the criticism is here.... so i'm prepared. and i read the DIY guide and the octaguide (a lot but not everything). But its hard to follow, while writing and trying to use your fantasy.

 

First thank u Ace Debonair for your criticism.

 

The thing with the mixed Genseed was just an idea, i was not really sure if it is a tabu or if its possible with the right circumstances. I am totally on board changing it to just iran hands for example. It came out of the idea defining the chapter by the historic event of the Istvaan v massacre, where all 3 legions suffered heavy casualties.

 

The thing with the whole chapter fighting together, was just to point out, that the chapter sticks together and only fight with very low risk. And because of there inefficient recruiting process. So they are only like 500-600 Marines.

 

 

By psychic talented i didn't mean only Liberians, 100-200 Marines sounded just good for a cursed renegade chapter than 50, an alternative here could by, that they were a quite big chapter with more than 10 companies.

 

I am willing to change the hole heavy Liberians theme, but this will give more power to the necron-curse, i think its possible to explain teleportation with it. And i wanted a more like cursed not corrupted renegade chapter. And leaving many brothers behind seemed like a nice motive. If one of you has an alternative idea, how only some of the marines would kind of profit from the curse in the aspect of power and the other dont?

 

An other idea could be, that they gain the need to be more psychic instead of teleportation. Could be that the chaptermaster itself became possessed and they had to turn on him. But this could also make them hate psychic like the black templars. Please feel free to post ideas!

 

 

Keeping it simple, but logical is really difficult.

 

 

Any thought on the Necron-Curse, i would imagine, that this could provoke someone?

[Hrvat]

If you like the three-chapter geneseed just push your chapter into the 21st founding. All sorts of crazy stuff happened there.

[Dakez]

DISCLAIMER: If any of the lore is wrong in the following, someone let me know. I'm fairly sure of the details and stuff, but if I got anything wrong I'm ok with getting it called out :cuss

 

Shiny does have a point. Take the Grey Knights. Each one has psychic talent. Granted, such a high concentration of psyk-gifted brethren in a single chapter is highly unlikely for one not closely allied with the Inquisition (after the Heresy any way(if i'm wrong on that correct me)), and a full company really unfeasible for a chapter (especially the ability for the entire chapter to disappear from the field).

 

I like the idea of your chapter master succumbing to the Warp at Istvaan. It would explain either a hatred of psykers, or a burning need to establish an iron core of unbreakable psychic control, and gives you a neat plot device for the whole chapter.

 

As for the only fighting when low risk, you're really going to want to reevaluate that one (up to you). I think what you meant, instead of only picking easy fights, is that the chapter fights very, very smart and very, very cunningly. Think like the Night Lords. They're a chapter on the verge, and they have to fight smart.

 

It sounds like you're going to center around the relationship between the marines and their technology, which you may want to center as much around techmarines and whatever adeptus mechanicus retainers they took with them in to exile (if any). Interesting point plot for you here: If they failed to take any with them, they could:

 

a) constantly be infiltrating Mechanicus worlds to kidnap engiseers/tech priests/mechanicus subjects to keep their equipment running

 

or

 

:blink: be on a constant quest to further each marines knowledge of their technology to perform their own repairs, which furthers their bond with the machine spirits of their vehicles and equipment.

 

The hindrance there (story wise) is that either way you play it, you're facing the fact that a large portion of your stuff is either going to be largely non-functional, dilapidated, rusting, etc. So you'll have to account for it story wise. Maybe through the brothers cursing the failures of the machine spirits and those who maintain them (the marines themselves, leading to a self-deprecating mindset amongst the marines for their own failure to maintain their stuff)

 

To agree with Ace and Grey, even with a low population, these are Space Marines. Mightiest of all the Imperium's Warriors (or ex-Warriors ;) ). Fighting as a chapter in any instance should be a measure of desperation, not the norm. Especially with reduces numbers and recruiting. The reduced numbers also allow you to focus on special character development. Those special characters that DID survive Istvaan are both special and old, so you have a lot of room to build a good back story.

 

You've got a good start, and I am excited to see where you go with your chapter. I look forward to reading more!

 

P.S. This is my pedantic side, and I know it's a rough draft, but you'll want to run your stuff through a spell check. I know that sounds mean, it's just a pet peeve of mine, so feel free to ignore me :)

[The Shiny One]

If you like the three-chapter geneseed just push your chapter into the 21st founding. All sorts of crazy stuff happened there.

 

21st founding and cursed chapter seemed a bit obvious for my. Going with this, it would be logical, that there abilities and strange armor had to be connected with with there genseed, don't you think?

 

My idea came more from the angle that the great disaster that connects the 3 original chapters would follow the new one.

[The Shiny One]

You've got a good start, and I am excited to see where you go with your chapter. I look forward to reading more!

thank you!

 

P.S. This is my pedantic side, and I know it's a rough draft, but you'll want to run your stuff through a spell check. I know that sounds mean, it's just a pet peeve of mine, so feel free to ignore me :)

I use a spell check, but it misses some words. As written in my signatur i am not a native speaker, but i'm trying.

 

My original intension was something like the Iron Hands Ironfather, but Liberians plus Techmarine. But i did not find a way to explain why a successor of the iron hands should go in this direction.

 

And to clear further misunderstanding, i see the shiny ones more like trap in there armor like the thousand sons. So i think they dont need any more technologie to survive just knowledge to understand. the entered a new state of being.

 

But thank you Dakez, i will work on the idea of the fallen chaptermaster.

Quick idea:

Perhaps a Ironfather, who is obsessed from the iron hands defect against his body and turns slowly therefor to the Chaos Gods (tzeentch), to obtain a higher staid of being, which then in conclusion after his defeat the other Ironfathers turn away from the fanatic chaplain aspect to the more cooler, wiser Liberians.

 

 

To Ace Debonair:

As for the mix up with the raven guard, i probably read this out of the subtext of there beliefs paragraph in the lexicanums IA. Raven Guard my bad!

 

And a formality question, do i edit the first post, or do i post the new story in the threats order?

[Dakez]

P.S. This is my pedantic side, and I know it's a rough draft, but you'll want to run your stuff through a spell check. I know that sounds mean, it's just a pet peeve of mine, so feel free to ignore me :)

I use a spell check, but it misses some words. As written in my signatur i am not a native speaker, but i'm trying.

 

i totally missed that i'm sorry!

 

 

edit:

 

I think the idea of them being trapped in their armor is neat. It sounds like you're definitely leaning towards a God of Change orientation for your chapter. That could be a strong tie in for the idea of a fallen chapter master, like he was pursuing a perfect union with the machine and there was a division between loyalists and his followers. It would explain why the Inquisition would get involved, and also open up your chapter to including Dark Mechanicus allies. The question I would ask is how far in to the Chaos Gods servitude would you want your chapter to go?

[The Shiny One]

Originally i did not wanted chaos involved. I would like to go more in the direction of being betrayed by the empire, inquisition. I would use the idea of the chaptermaster that falls to chaos only to put some kind of mistrust against fanatic leaders and bring some kind of brokeness to the chapter. In my draft they would definitely defeat the chaptermaster and his company, but in the end they would reach his goal, only because they tried to prevent it from happening again.

The only link to include the Ad Mech lies for me in the reaction that they would turn away from it after there disaster with there former master, and turn more to the inquisition instead which brings them eventually to the tombworld and the curse of organic metall.

 

An other idea that came to me:

By putting them in the 21st founding, the empire could have tried curing the Iron Hands gen-defect but failed totally in there attempt.

[Shinzaren]

Ace is far gentler than I am. I will try to go easy, especially since you're new. Still, if I come across as harsh, I apologize. I'm here to help.

 

Founded around M35.

The Genseed is probably a combination of Salamanders, Raven Guard and Iran Hands.

Pick one. Raven Guard is a terrible choice, as it has a number of very serious flaws, all of which would be present in a later founding, as there is no way to fix gene-seed once it breaks. Salamanders or Iron Hands is the way to go.

 

Tactics: Specialization on rescue-,recovery- and secure-missions. (obviously to prevent such a massacre like on Istvaan V) A lot of Thunderhawks, Stormravens and Droppods, they rarely use rhinos.

Why not use Rhinos? One of the hallmarks of a rescue campaign is getting the evacuees out safely, which is not always possible through the air. Rhinos are ideal for this. Secondly, Search and Rescue isn't really what Space Marines do. It's a SMALL part of it, but hardly enough to base a chapter around. Astartes exist to destroy the enemies of mankind, nothing more, nothing less. They are living weapons, pointed at a problem.

 

Characteristics:

mobile chapter castle, because nearly no life in the istvaan sector. crusade against csm. cruising in the isvaan sector and the whole the Segmentum Ultima

Chapter Castle? Star Fortresses fit this description, but they are rare. If there is no life in the Istvaan Sector, why are they there? Space Marines fight, that's all they do. They wouldn't be around a place where no enemies are,

 

very independent, because of salamander and iron hands talent to handle machines and raven guard unreligious understanding of things. Deep hatred agains betrayal. recruiting while on crusade.

The first has nothing to do with the second. Independence has nothing to do with Salamanders or Iron Hands gene-seed. That said, gene-seed does not inherently guarantee success in a particular area. Just cause the progenitor chapter is good at something, doesn't necessarily mean the successors are. I've never heard of Raven Guard being anti-religion.

 

They are close to the inquisition. and are often in situations to support inquisitors on there tasks. (Mostly the fraction of the istvaanians, because of heavy presents in there sector)

Presence. Also, chapters aren't close to the Inquisition. They are close to Inquisitors. Individual identity varies HUGELY in the Inquisition, and getting along with one Inquisitor might automatically put you at odds with another.

 

While rescuing Inquisitor Balthasar van Dusthar from a exodite world (he was there to provoke the eldar). Suddenly a eldar craftship turns up and in the following battle the whole 1. company including the chaptermaster get killed. (i am not shure if the eldar are right here, but they seem able to destroy a 1. company)

1. Yes, the Eldar would work fine. They are quite capable of taking a Space Marine company apart at Craftworld strength.
   
2. Why are they rescuing someone who brought this on himself? If he's there to provoke the Eldar, and they attack, seems logical he pays for it.
   
3. This seems kinda of silly, and a bad way to decimate the Chapter. Because this is such an important event, it needs to be one of the most thought out parts of any IA. This reasoning seems pretty thin. If you stick with this, do they hate the Eldar more than other races?
   

 

This results in no terminator armors, low numbers because no efficient recruiting.

Why not get more Termie armor from the AdMech. Obviously you won't have the same numbers you had before, but you would have some.

 

After the disaster Liberians take the leadingrole in the chapter because of there wisdom in tough times (they keep cool).

Librarians make poor leaders, for multiple reasons.

1.) They are susceptible to Warp possession.

2.) Most chapters view them with varying degrees of distrust/suspicion, because of their abilities.

3.) They make much better advisors than leaders. The advice they give to leaders can be viewed and acted upon more impartially than if the Librarian acts upon his own visions/ideas.

 

They have a tendency to record everything (this could be from before, because there tie to history), they develop an urge to understand the system behind things to prevent disasters and a despise against drop pods, because the are now seen as death traps, that eliminate a possible retreat when needed.

I will be honest, I do not known what this chapter is saying. There, their, and they're are getting mixed up. Tenses are all over the place, and I am pretty sure you said earlier that they use lots of Drop Pods. This is a contradictory statement.

 

The Liberians develop tactics of Teleportation and master the gate of infinity. Because of this the chapter beginning to prefer psychic aspirants and because its easier to find them on a world while recruiting.

They develop a tendency to stick to them selfs and only fight as a whole chapter no splitting up in different crusades (500-700 Marines)

And I am suddenly overcome with flash backs to D.A.T.'s teleporting Sorcerers. I'll give you a hint. It didn't work for him either. The Gate of Infinity allows a Librarian to step through the warp and cross TINY distances, measured in meters, instead of true distances. This last part makes no sense. It actually ISN'T easier to find psychics, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Secondly, as Ace said, you are using a boulder to crush an Ant. 700 marines is a system scouring force. Using that many marines in small engagements is ridiculous and wasteful.

 

belief: (body is weak, mind has to be strong), perfecting psychic manipulation of the mashinespirit.

This needs more explanation, because I honestly do not know what it means at all...

 

The chapter is helping Inquisitor Leonhardt Stravth is on Tombworld 3467 in the north of the Istvaan Sector searching an artifact. After fighting a monumental battle against a huge Necron Force, the Inquisitor opens a Tomb, ignoring eventual traps. He releases a Metall-Virus-Nanobots-fungus (here i am not certain and can see that it is cliche, but i need something like it for the outcome), and everyone on the tombworld get infected. the Inquisitor quickly disappears on a new quest. (other story, point is he does not show responsibility)

Deus Ex Nano-Virus. Introducing something solely to move the plot along is weak writing. Why would the Marines aid this Inquisitor if he is doing all this crap, opening a Tomb while they are fighting, etc etc. I am seeing a pattern here, Deus Ex Inquisitor. You are using them to drive the plot, and giving no backround or driving force for them. Seems like the Marines would have stopped working with the Inquisition if this is what is going to happen.

 

back on the chapterfortress the infection spreads slowly but certain, only the psychic talented brothers are able to contain it and start using it as an psychic enhancer of there armor. The other brothers get weaker and slower. Before the Liberians can find a cure to handle the infection, the inquistion starts investigating and decides to excommunicate the chapter for heretic use of technology.

What? I am very confused. Only the Psychics can resist it? And it makes them stronger? But the rest of the chapter gets weaker? This is...confusing.

 

A Sisters of Battle Company and Black Templars Crusade attack the chapterfortress.

The weak brothers all get killed on and the chapterfortress gets destroyed.

The Inquisition does NOT get along well with the Black Templars, so it is unlikely they would come to get you. Grey Knights are who they use to declare Chapters who go against the will of Mankind.

 

But Many of the Psychic talented Brothers (100-200) are able to escape via teleportation on the smallest of the chapters cruisers and suddenly disappear.

2 Companies of Psykers? That is a LOT of marines... WAY WAY too many marines.

 

They start cruising the universe on a quest of understanding there infection and perfecting there new power. they all took a vow of silence in honor of there lost brothers and change there helmets to deathmask to represent this, they now only communicate via telepathy and therefor have no need for a command structure.

Gawha-? If they have been declared Excommunicate, they are literally the enemies of Mankind. ANY Imperial organization that sees them will attempt to kill them. They wouldn't be able to just cruise the galaxy without repercussions.

 

Because of there lost and feeling of betrayal by the inquisition they develop a deep hatred against the Inquisition and all its branches and every kind of fanatics and betrayers. They still belief that the Emperor is a great man but they begin to understand how corrupted the systems that calls itself Empire has become.

This part is good. I actually like this in a Renegade chapter. Like the Emperor, hate the bureaucracy.

 

from now on they are simply the shiny ones to there enemies.

 

New Tactics: Shock Attack. Teleport and retreat information. Teleport in an kill every one. New Powersuits that have a shiny shifting glow. they use some kind psi-energie-weapons that channel there psychic power. (Laser, Psicannon, Stormbolters, Melter and Flamers). For Close-combat there Weapons are part of there Suits (Nemesis force weapon).

No. No. No. And.... No. Teleporting is CRAZY overpowered. How did they get new powersuits if they cut ties with the Imperium? Psi-energy weapons are called Force Weapons, and they already exist. Nemesis weapons are the sole domain of the Grey Knights, who are the only ones to wield them. They are each psychically attuned to their user, and bonded to them. Not something you can just whip up while evading Imperial Law.

 

The goal is it to have a army of only something like obliterators and the legion of the dammed. I dont like the official Models but i really like the concept. I think the new Grey Knights next year could be able to represent this type of warfare quite well. And since it is impossible to make a grey knight successor chapter this is my creative attempt to do so.

There is a reason there are no successors to the Grey Knights. Objectively look at what your army can do, and you will see how crazy overpowered it is. You've kinda crushed the shared universe here, which raises problems. Step back, collate your ideas a bit, read the guides, and tone everything down.

 

So whats your thoughts on the subject? I can understand that some of you might not like it. Never the less feel free to comment after reading and thank you for doing so.

It may seem like I don't like this idea. Which is partly true. I don't like a lot of the ideas in this Chapter. However, that doesn't mean it can't work. It just needs improvement. As some of my gentler Liberites have suggested, I would highly recommend reading the guides, and trying to gain a better understanding of how the Universe works. \

 

Anywho... Those are my thoughts, for you to use or not, as you will.

[Ace Debonair]

Ace is one of the kindest, gentlest and humorous souls in the Liber, and also one of the best at giving good advice so I think a word of warning.

I'm also modest. :P

To be honest I don't know how he keeps up such a charming demeanor in the face of what the Liber sometimes sees posted within it's halls that has to be purged with extreme prejudice. <_<

Hey, the Liber was nice to me when I first showed up. I have no problem repaying the favour.

 

beside SM Fluff, i only read how hard the criticism is here.... so i'm prepared. and i read the DIY guide and the octaguide (a lot but not everything). But its hard to follow, while writing and trying to use your fantasy.

I see where you're coming from, I think. But in reality both guides tend to warn of falling into the same old traps - making a chapter that would be too powerful, or too 'awesome', as we say.

 

The reason for that is simple - DIY chapters can't make too big of a mark on the shared universe. If they did, you have to assume GW would have mentioned them.

And if your chapter is 'awesome', then there's no way they wouldn't make a big splash in the 40k-universe.

I'm one to talk - I have a chapter featuring a thousand marines on dragons. But I'd never post it here, because I could never justify it within the universe.

 

The thing with the mixed Genseed was just an idea, i was not really sure if it is a tabu or if its possible with the right circumstances. I am totally on board changing it to just iran hands for example. It came out of the idea defining the chapter by the historic event of the Istvaan v massacre, where all 3 legions suffered heavy casualties.

Well, I don't know about taboo, but it would be very, very hard to write it well.

For instance, you've got so many recruits with the Iron Hands drive for mechanization and hatred of weakness. Then you've got the Raven Guard geneseed, which is in a terribly bad state, and turns people into pale, dark-haired types. Then the Salamanders geneseed, which also suffers mutations, and turns a number of your chapter into dark-skinned folks with red eyes, if I remember rightly.

 

There might be considerable tension within the chapter. What if the ones with IH geneseed see the others as weak? Or the conflict between the humane nature of the Salamanders and the cold, callous approach of the Iron Hands?

 

It's a lot easier to pick one Legion's geneseed and go with it. ^_^

On the positive side, all three of those geneseeds are rarely used, so picking any one of them already helps you stick out from the usual crowd. :D

 

The thing with the whole chapter fighting together, was just to point out, that the chapter sticks together and only fight with very low risk. And because of there inefficient recruiting process. So they are only like 500-600 Marines.

 

Alright, I think I get it. Your marines keep to themselves, rather than putting their trust in other forces to support them. And they fight smart.

I take it that's so nobody can betray them like the Legions were betrayed at Istvaan.

 

By psychic talented i didn't mean only Liberians, 100-200 Marines sounded just good for a cursed renegade chapter than 50, an alternative here could by, that they were a quite big chapter with more than 10 companies.

 

I am willing to change the hole heavy Liberians theme, but this will give more power to the necron-curse, i think its possible to explain teleportation with it. And i wanted a more like cursed not corrupted renegade chapter. And leaving many brothers behind seemed like a nice motive. If one of you has an alternative idea, how only some of the marines would kind of profit from the curse in the aspect of power and the other dont?

This ties in to what I was saying about 'awesome'. No other chapter has the power to teleport so many people. It's an immediate fight-winner - you could appear behind the enemy lines at will, strike a target down, and vanish again. If a hundred marines are capable of basically subduing a planet by themselves, two hundred marines who can teleport is a force that would make too many waves in the 40k-universe.

 

I hope this makes sense. I'm tired, so it might read like gibberish. :lol:

 

Keeping it simple, but logical is really difficult.

 

 

Any thought on the Necron-Curse, i would imagine, that this could provoke someone?

Hmm. You could have it effect only so many of your marines. Say it doesn't work on the Librarians, but effects the other two or three hundred marines with them. They could slowly go crazy, a little bit at a time, and when in battle occasionally lose it altogether and charge the enemy.

 

Basically, you could turn the afflicted into a Death Company substitute. :lol:

[The Shiny One]

Thank you Shinzaren for your comments, i appreciate them, but will not answer a very one, because i will change the things anyway.

 

The thing with the awesomeness i get. But i'm coming from the army building section of the hobby. And searching for a back story for my marine army that i will build one day. This said, I would like to field a Grey Knight Force which means, on the battlefield only a few awesome Marines on the tabletop, who teleport into battle and have all psychic abilities and better weapons than the other guys. (100-200 living members seem fitting, because of casualties, but only 40-70 that cant die,just teleport away, could work also. And i think 200 of this guys would never stand a chance against the empire, so there only think to do is teleport through the universe and fight small battle for information)

This combined with a certain kind of modelling i have in mind, I really like to show you, but cant because its not done yet. (only time for writing now)

Imagine marines with something like the sanguinary guard death masks without the halo. There armor is kind of a living, shifting liquid Metal, like Terminator 2 for example with a changing colorful gloom. Just to make them pop, and not look like necrons, or iron warriors. (i thought using them as "count as" plague marines and obliterators, but with the new grey knights codex coming next year i thought the teleport in battle would fit better than the absorbing enemy fire theme). I could post a small army list if you like. Mostly normal Grey Knights and Terminators (no characters just LP1 Models) for antitank only dreadnoughts, i hope the new codex will give some alternatives in this matter). I kind of started putting this kind of things in the original chapter before the curse which really is not necessary but happend automatically, my bad!

 

This in mind i want a story that explains how the Marines became this way. I see them as trap in this state, cursed to exist and hunted by the empire. (@Shinzaren: i did not mean cruising with a ship, more like jumping around on a space hulk, hoping to find something intressting) And to make them more aggressiv i thought a quest wouldn't be bad for them. the trying to understand what happend seemed fitting.

 

I hope this explains something. I did not wanted to start this way, because a had made this first draft of a story in the first threat already, before posting.

 

So i am thinking of starting the next version of the story by describing the shiny ones, and then explaining how it came to the phenomenon and this as cool, interesting and fitting as possible. (i could do it like GW with the legion of the dammed, the "unknown" way, but i would like not to, perhaps later in a mystery story about them). Thats what i am here for and need your input. Hopefully it will end in an IT so i can give something back to the community.

 

 

At the moment i think that 21st founding is kind of obvious but keeping it simple is important. I think only using the iron hands genseed will work fine. but explaining the metal phenomenon only by mutation is kind of boring. using something like a necron tomb curse as a tigger sounds kind of cool for my, because it would fit the necrons (if anyone has an other idea here please feel free to post, one of my other thought was a demonic possession thats not certain to a specific god, pure feeling excess, bright shining like slaanesh, destoying everything like khorne, corrosive absorbing like nurgle, or changing like tzeench, it could also be just tzeench but than there kind of thousand sons).

 

But i need something which explains how it came to this event, thats kind of logical and not deus ex, i understand this and was aware of it but had no alternativ.

I would like the chapter more to be doomed than being obsessed and falling to the chaos. the "searches for more power way because he wants to be a better servant of the empire way" i prefer not to go.

The psychic controlling of the infection or curse seemed a good idea here, going only technology seems not the right way, because the modells will be more demonic organic metall.

 

I can see that this is quit fixed, but i am open to suggestion and see it as a challenge to find something fitting.

 

Thats all for today, i will be back with a new draft on the chapters history. Do i edit the new story in the first post, how do you handle this?

[Shinzaren]

Here's the problem... You are in the Liber Astartes, where we deal with fluff and backround. Trying to justify modeling, army lists, and table top issues is never going to work. One or the other is my general philosophy. If it's a modeling issue, there are better forums that would be able to offer better advice, we're too fluff crazy to aid in that area overmuch. If it truly is a backround issue, and you want it to be justifiable in the shared universe, then the Grey Knights idea doesn't work that well.

[Ace Debonair]

To answer one of your questions immediately, it's usually a good idea to update the first post with the most recent draft of your IA.

 

I see where you're coming from - you want a DIY chapter of Grey Knights.

Well, while the GK are very cool, think about how powerful they are in the 40k-universe.

 

In much the same way we dissuade folks from being a second Black Templar chapter, with up to 6,000 marines, we tend to talk people out of copying the GK because they are both very powerful.

 

Hmm. In fact, I'd say it would be safer to write a mostly normal chapter. You could make them a bit like the GK, though - have them attacked often by traitors (with accompanying demons, of course) and maybe have a (slightly) higher than average number of Librarians.

 

As Shinzaren said, using our story to justify tabletop choices will result, 99% of the time, in making the story much weaker.

It's a good idea to keep the modelling and story aspects of your chapter seperate.

 

For instance, none of my chapters on this forum have 1,000 dragons in them. ^_^

[The Shiny One]

I really understand why you dont want a Grey Knight like Chapter here, even if it seems not so.

 

That said, my argument would be, that they will never be a whole chapter just up to maximum 100 guys. So i thing the impact on the universe will be down to a minimum, two or three Inquisitors searching for them perhaps. If it helps thing of them like demons, showing up destroying and going away, no intension of teleporting on to terra and killing the emperor what so ever. And if the only plausible way for a story is to make them possessed than i will go that way.

 

Bringing the storytelling and modelling together is my only motivation here, for now. if its a success i will try new chapters of pure fiction, promise.

 

How about a iron hands successor that falls to tzeench because they hate there bodys so much? They lose control of there alien/chaos technology and got trap in there armor, becoming insane over the time. the only thing they feel is the presence of each other and a deep hatred/rage against everything else.

[Ecritter]

Note on the Salamander geneseed. The geneseed doesn't turn the SMs skin black (the radiation on the Salamander HW does that), it just makes it easier for outside sources to do it. It does turn the eyes bright red though.

[NightrawenII]

How about a iron hands successor that falls to tzeench because they hate there bodys so much? They lose control of there alien/chaos technology and got trap in there armor, becoming insane over the time. the only thing they feel is the presence of each other and a deep hatred/rage against everything else.

Deus ex Chaos-Gods?

It could work, except the part about trapped in armour.

 

In all honesty, you should abandon the idea of writing a Index Astartes and rather write a story about cabal of powerful Chaos-sorcerers. This way, you could justify all rules or modelling issues without breaking the shared universe.

 

Just a idea. ^_^

[The Shiny One]

In all honesty, you should abandon the idea of writing a Index Astartes and rather write a story about cabal of powerful Chaos-sorcerers. This way, you could justify all rules or modelling issues without breaking the shared universe.

 

Just a idea. ^_^

 

will be considerate.