Selecting a skill for Battleforged Heroes...

[ShinyRhino]

I'm fiddling about with a Cato Sicarius list for this weekend's tournament. I've packed the list with 3x full Tactical Squads, with various armaments.

The thing I'm struggling with right now is which skill to grant, and what armaments to select.

 

My preliminary thoughts are to take Infiltrate for a squad with a powerfist, meltagun, and lascannon. Infiltrate them to the edges for side-armor shots on armor with the las, or up close and personal with the meltagun and powerfist.

 

Problem is, the squad can never get a first-turn assault, and can never be in range to fire its meltagun first turn. That effectively puts the entire squad at risk for a single side-on lascannon shot on Turn One. If the opponent spreads out, I'm looking at Infiltrate being largely useless. Infiltrate seems best during Dawn of War scenarios, or Spearhead deployments.

 

Scout was an interesting option, allowing me to put a Rhino-borne squad 12" deeper into the field during the Scout move, or outflank them (Infiltrate would allow outflanking as well) if no targets present themselves.

 

Tank Hunters would be awesome for a las/plas squad, since it boosts the effecttive Strength of the lascannon to 10, and the plasmagun to 8. Even basic bolters jump to S5, which can start glancing Rhinos!

 

Counter Attack seems least useful. A tac squad will never be a close combat unit. Anything reaching my squad with the intent to beat on them typically won't care much about the extra attack per Marine at I4.

 

 

Ideas? I should preface the situation by saying that I don't run drop pods. My only transport options are Rhinos, or a single las/plas Razorback.

[minigun762]

For infiltrate, I'd be most tempted by a Multi-Melta/Plasma gun combo supported by a Fist.

 

You won't be in range to get the extra D6 first turn, but you will be in range of something and it will go a long way to creating a bubble that vehicles and even MCs might be scared to travel in. I've heard about the same squad setup for drop pods but this way you're not missing a turn of heavy weapon fire.

 

I like the idea of Scout and Outflanking and using this squad to either harass the opponents static elements or claim their objectives. Either way I think a Flamer or Meltagun would be the most helpful, depending on if you want to burn out some Lootas in cover or knock out that Leman Russ thats been firing all game. Power Weapon or Fist depending on your squad's role.

 

I agree with your Tank Hunter setup, I don't really see another good option as Tank Hunter seems wasted on Meltaguns.

 

Counter attack seems best in a rapid fire squad, so that means a Plasmagun. Hide in cover (to deny I to units without grenades) and dump a rapid fire into the enemy squad then when they charge you, you get that extra attack to help against their already weakened numbers. Fist is the safest option here. As for the heavy, I think the Heavy Bolter or Plasma Cannon since both work well in an anti-infantry role which is where I see counter attack being helpful.

[Mysticaria]

Do you have to give the same skill before hand or can it change from game to game?

 

If you go with Tank Hunters, consider a combiplasma for the seargeant. 4x S8 shots on a round of rapid fire is strong.

Of all the options you listed, the scouting or outflanking rhino sounds the most intriuging though. It sounds really flexible.

 

-Myst

[ShinyRhino]

Do you have to give the same skill before hand or can it change from game to game?

 

In a tourney environment, I'd say you'd keep the same one throughout, since it's taken at the list level like Libby powers.

[minigun762]

Do you have to give the same skill before hand or can it change from game to game?

 

In a tourney environment, I'd say you'd keep the same one throughout, since it's taken at the list level like Libby powers.

 

If that is the case, my feeling is that either Scout (for outflanking) or Tank Hunter is the best options.

 

I'm really partial to the idea of a Rhino coming in from the side, maybe tossing out an HK Missile on a target and then dropping off a Tac squad in the backfield to handle all of those annoying units that like to hang back there.

[chaplain belisarius]

hmm...infiltrate for annoyance factor or tank hunter on a las/plas squad perhaps? good luck! :P

[Jackelope King]

I'll preface this by saying I think Sicarus is an overpriced HQ choice who manages to actually accomplish precious little in 90% of Codex: Space Marines lists. Now if he were leading some Space Wolves, he'd be Captain McAwesomepants (Leadership 10 for everyone without needing to waste a Saga on Saga of Majesty = 1 extra Elites slot, and Gray Hunters would love to be able to Scout). But it's almost like the designers wanted to let him beef up ALL Tactical Squads, but got nervous and chopped it down to one. Which is weak-sauce. Gift-wrap target-priority for your enemy! Honestly, Sicarus' biggest point of awesome is Universal Ld 10 for Morale and pinning tests. Since you get to keep Combat Tactics, you are practically at Calgar's ability to choose whether you pass or fail whatever test you want. His wargear is mostly underwhelming as it is.

 

Okay, enough annoyance at bad design for poor Sicarus. As for using him, if you're not allowed to switch from one game to the next (which is an acceptable reading), I'd go with Scout, especially if you have fast elements to drive up to support midfield. This is assuming you've got at least one decent Multi-Melta squad in a Rhino. Remember, Tacticals usually want to camp midfield. If you're packing Multi-Melta (which you should be), you really don't need Tank Hunters. Infiltrates alone means no Rhino, which is meh. Counter-Attack is... well... really underwhelming on a Tactical Squad. At least Space Wolves do it cheaply and remembered to bring their chainswords.

 

Infiltrates would really only be nice for targets of opportunity, so I really can't recommend it over Scouts, which should let you still line up that first turn side-armor shot with a ranged weapon like a Missile Launcher or Las Cannon.

[ShinyRhino]

I'm liking the Scouts idea more and more, since it allows the Rhino to go 12" before the game even starts, or hang out in reserve for an Outflank.

[Leonaides]

Why no love for relentless with a meltagun/multimelta tac squad? Now that short-ranged MM can be fired out of a moving Rhino, or you can do a scoot and shoot 12" up to a tank and hop out with 2 melta shots...

[ShinyRhino]

Why no love for relentless with a meltagun/multimelta tac squad? Now that short-ranged MM can be fired out of a moving Rhino, or you can do a scoot and shoot 12" up to a tank and hop out with 2 melta shots...

 

Because Relentless isn't an option.

Scout, Infiltrate, Tank Hunters, or Counterattack.

[bystrom]

Maybe because you can't choose relentless ;)

Some opinions in the UM forum regarding Siccy. Some skimming might bring some ideas for using battleforged heroes.

I'd say no to counterattack for the same reason you've said and I'd also say no to infiltrate unless its part of some bigger plan. Sending a tactical squad up, most likely alone against your opponent's whole army is asking for the squad to die. Since the squad isn't very fast, it'll be hard to do anything worthwhile with the setup. If you want to deploy further forward scout works just as well but with a rhino.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I sort of have a query regarding Infiltrate and Combat Squads.

 

Since Infiltrate gives you outflank, can you combat squad (at the infiltrate step of deployment), deploy one combat squad via infiltrate, and declare the other combat squad to be outflanking (with the transport)?

 

If the answer is yes, my pick is Infiltrate.

[ShinyRhino]

I sort of have a query regarding Infiltrate and Combat Squads.

 

Since Infiltrate gives you outflank, can you combat squad (at the infiltrate step of deployment), deploy one combat squad via infiltrate, and declare the other combat squad to be outflanking (with the transport)?

 

If the answer is yes, my pick is Infiltrate.

 

No, both combat squads have to arrive via the same method.

You can deploy both on the table at initial deployment, via Infiltrate, and even place them in separate locations.

However, if you place the Tactical Squad in Reserve, the squad will not split until it arrives on the table. So, if you outflank that Tac Squad, you roll ONCE for which board edge they come in from. Youc an then Combat Squad them, but both combat squads must arrive from the same table edge, but may arrive from different points on said table edge.

 

You can never split a Tactical Squad, deploy half, and put the other half in Reserve.

[WarriorFish]

Scouting in a Rhino is pretty useful, and Tank Hunters is a good alternative/default if you're stuck. I've used a Tank Hunting squad in a Drop Pod which has worked quite well but an outflanking Rhino has proved most effective :P

[Disruptor_fe404]

No, both combat squads have to arrive via the same method.

You can deploy both on the table at initial deployment, via Infiltrate, and even place them in separate locations.

However, if you place the Tactical Squad in Reserve, the squad will not split until it arrives on the table. So, if you outflank that Tac Squad, you roll ONCE for which board edge they come in from. Youc an then Combat Squad them, but both combat squads must arrive from the same table edge, but may arrive from different points on said table edge.

 

You can never split a Tactical Squad, deploy half, and put the other half in Reserve.

 

Fair enough. Although Infiltrate may still be my pick, put the multimelta somewhere nice, and the meltagun can stay in the transport and deploy normally (as in place transport in your deployment zone normally, and have that combat squad 'infiltrate' into your normal deployment zone, or just out of it, so they can jump in the transport straight away).

[BearersOfSalvation]

Outflanking is really handy, you can put a rhino full of short-ranged firepower back in the enemy deployment zone. Scout on a rhino-riding squad would be my go-to ability, that can really do a lot of damage and steal an objective. I don't see the point of infiltrate in what I'd call a normal marine army, I'd rather have my tac squad in a rhino that serves as a bunker and can get to the infiltration spot within a turn or two anyway. Putting a marine squad in the middle of the table without their convenient AV11 shell just seems like a complete waste. In an army with lots of scouts I could see infiltrating a tac squad to help them, but I think I'd rather take shrike and infiltrate some kind of assault troops instead.

 

Tank hunters is kind of a consolation prize, it's nice to get the extra penetration but tac squad long range AT is weak even with it (1 LC shot) or really doesn't need it (melta). Since the book doesn't say when you pick the ability we've ruled it as 'at deployment', so this is what I would take against an army where I didn't want to outflank. Counter-attack is a handy ability since you can jump out, rapid-fire, and still get a charge 1/2-2/3 of your guys when the enemy charges you, but I wouldn't take sicarius just for it.

 

I agree that sicarius appears to be overpriced, it's nice to get a special ability but he costs a lot and doesn't have a good equipment loadout IMO.