White Templars

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I started this project two years ago and am only now finishing it. This is a draft, rough draft, of what I have so far for comment and/or suggestions.

You will see that the title field of my tables is huge. I even tried cut and pasting from the formatting tutorial, but I still get that effect. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

I may make the key personnel into their own sub-headers as I fluff out the text for them.

I'm also open to suggestions on things I might move to or put in the sidebars. I thought about sidebarring the part of the chapter tradition regarding leaving medical clinics on places they fought, but if I do that then there is not a lot left in the tradition section.

I also will eventually use the painter to generate some images to insert, but that is a project for another day.

Dan

WHITE TEMPLARS

I

n the Millenium following the Third Founding, the High Lords of Terra set a frenetic pace of additional foundings to meet the growing threats on all sides of the Imperium. Space Marines were spread thin repelling invaders, retaking worlds that Horus had overrun, squashing despots who thought to make the Imperium on their own private planets, and meeting the Emperor's foes on all battlefields. The Angels of Absolution contributed gene-seed, the Apothecary Val Stonecipher of their First Company, and twenty-four of their marines to the 7th Founding. They also contributed the battle barge Sword of Damocles.

Apothecary Stonecipher knowing the peril in which the Empire stood and its need for trained Space Marines, wasted no time in building the new chapter along the lines prescribed in the Codex Astartes as interpreted by the Imperial Paladins. Yet, Stonecipher, himself a deeply pious and intellectual man, could not help but to put his own stamp upon the fledgling chapter. He envisioned a Space Marine as a holy warrior taking up the god-emperor's fight against the xenos, the rebels, and the mutants. He taught that the core of any Marine rested on a tripod of discipline, duty, and faith. As the direct children of a living god who carried divine blood in their veins, Space Marines shouldered an awesome responsibility to carry on the Emperor's legacy by protecting the empire He built. Like all men though, Stonecipher had his faults and they crept into the new chapter as well. In instilling his "tripod" into the Chapter, Stonecipher also instilled a prideful elitism. As Space Marines only they carried the Emperor's genes and he convinced his recruits that they were the best Space Marines ever trained. Consequently, anyone else was a lesser being who stood but a step away from damnation in the eyes of many of the original recruits. This gave the Space Marines a divine right over such lesser beings. Only two things checked this overweening pride from ballooning into eventual rebellion and fall, Stonecipher's emphasis on spirituality and the people of Sanctum.

When the chapter had two full strength companies, the High Lords decreed it operational and Grand Master Stonecipher christened his chapter the White Templars. "White" stood for the purity of the chapter and "Templars" reminded them of their divine origin. For the armor, Stonecipher chose white as well, again to reflect the spiritual purity of the chapter, but also because white was the Apocathary's color. The chapter emblem, a stylized cross crosslet, would always be drawn in white and, to provide contrast, it would usually be drawn on black, and emblem again showing the purity of the chapter against the darkness of damnation.

The White Templars quickly received their first mission. Apparently a distress call regarding an invasion of Chaos cultists had come into Terra over a century ago and somehow the dispatch had fallen behind a heater in an office in the Adminsitratum and not been found again until just recently during remodeling. While it was assumed that the original colonists had long since been destroyed by the cultists, the situation needed investigation and probably military action to recover the planet. The White Templars were assigned this task and the Sword of Damocles set out for the planet Sanctum, a short jump from Holy Terra.

White Templars gene-seed is uncorrupted from that of their grandparent, the Dark Angels.

W

hite Templars wear white power armor with black paudrons, trimmed in white, over black under armor. Standard Codex squad markings go on the right pauldron while the Chapter Badge goes on the left pauldron. Squad number is denoted on the right pauldron. Pauldron trim denotes rank with scarlet for sergeants, black for veterans, copper for veteran sergeants, silver for captains, and gold for the Grand Master. The company is denoted by a company badge worn on the backpack or, less commonly, on the left pauldron. Personal heraldry, if any, is worn on the knee plates. Armor for Techmarines, Librarians, and Chaplains is by Codex, but any vestments are white. Apothecaries are armored in white with sky blue vestments. Cloaks and robes are scarlet for sergeants, Dark Angel Green for veterans and veteran sergeants, black for captains, and Dark Angel Green trimmed with gold for Grand Masters. Scout fatigues are black or camouflage.

Table of Chapter Livery & Markings

POSITIONARMORPAULDRONPAULDRON TRIMVESTMENTS

ScoutsWhiteBlackNoneBlack Fatigues

MarinesWhiteBlackWhiteUsually None

Fast AttackWhiteBlackWhiteBlack Helmet and thighs

SergeantsWhiteBlackScarletScarlet

VeteransWhiteBlackBlackDark Angel Green

Veteran SergeantsWhiteBlackBright CopperDark Angel Green

LibrariansDeep BlueBlackWhiteWhite

TechmarinesScarletBlackWhiteWhite

ChaplainsBlackBlackWhiteWhite

ApothecariesWhiteBlackSky BlueSky Blue

Masters of the ForgeDark RedWhiteWhiteVestments

CaptainsWhiteBlackSilverBlack

Grand MasterWhiteBlackGoldDark Angel Green

Terminators are white with black pauldrons and any vestments are Dark Angel Green, just like the veterans they are. Weapons are black with gunmetal metalic muzzles and clips.. Skulls are black, bone or gold. Most emblems are gold. Vehicles and drop pods are predominantly white but patterns vary - and each one has some black where the White Templar emblem is painted.

Chapter Master Oliver McAvey

Captain DeBracy, 1st Company

Captain Falk Oversteegan

Librarian Balduinus

Chaplain Callistus

Sgt. Feodor Carolus

Edited to add Fast Attack livery and attempted to clean up formatting on January 5, 2011

[NightrawenII]

The Angels of Absolution contributed gene-seed, the Apothecary Val Stonecipher of their First Company, and twenty-four of their marines to the 7th Founding.

#A This sentence feels out of place. The jump between the opening and creation of the Chapter is too abrupt.

#B The gene-seed for the new founding is grown on the Mars. ... the gene-seed of the Angels of Absolution was chosen... or something like that.

#C Why Apothecary? His role in the Chapter is field-medic.

#D 24 is a lot of marines.

 

Apothecary Stonecipher knowing the peril in which the Empire stood and its need for trained Space Marines, wasted no time in building the new chapter along the lines prescribed in the Codex Astartes as interpreted by the Imperial Paladins.

Imperium.

Again. The new Chapters are build by Admech.

Why Imperial Paladins? ::They are of unknown Founding, so I will be wary to use them.::

 

He envisioned a Space Marine as a holy warrior taking up the god-emperor's fight against the xenos, the rebels, and the mutants.

He envisioned the obvious.

BTW, SM's don't see Emperor as a God.

 

Only two things checked this overweening pride from ballooning into eventual rebellion and fall, Stonecipher's emphasis on spirituality and the people of Sanctum.

I'm not sure how others, but I found the *ballooning* quite hilarious.

 

When the chapter had two full strength companies, the High Lords decreed it operational and Grand Master Stonecipher christened his chapter the White Templars.

Just two companies is IMHO too low.

 

That state of mind coincidentally included, in the words of a doctor of that time, a "sense of spiritual well-being and contentment."

Ok. So in order to keep the sickness at bay, they had to be high? :blink:

 

In the 32nd millennium, several renegade units of the Imperial army made a stealthy planetfall on Sanctum. These units, led by General abu-Wazir, had fallen to the worship of Chaos.

Imperial Army is already dead for thousand of years.

 

They learned the art of gorilla warfare, infiltrating their enemy's citadels and do maximum damage before fading away.

Guerilla. Gorillas don't live in South America. ;)

 

... a massed drop pod assault began in the north polar region as the entire White Templar Chapter made planetfall.

Two companies, if I recall correctly. ;)

 

In a few weeks, the campaign to liberate Sanctum ended, General al-Wazir falling in a personal duel with the Grand Master himself.

Just quick question: Is he the same guy, mentioned before? If so, how it come, he is still alive after several centuries?

 

+++++

Overall:

The downfall of this IA is your tendency to drown your reader with huge amount of details. The Homeworld section is the prime example of this. Do we really need to know all this?

Second, you are shoehorning your marines into something, which they aren't (or aren't supposed to be). The Astartes are living-weapons, they purpose and urge is war. Making them doctors and physicians is just weird.

Another thing is the Emperor. Cults of Marines are different from the usual belief in the Imperium. The marines revere Emperor as the Greatest of men, divine but not god-like.

The last point, Angels of Absolution are the Unforgiven. Where is the Hunt of the Fallen?

[Ecritter]

BTW, SM's don't see Emperor as a God.

 

Some Marines do see the Emperor as a god, its not out of the realm of belief.

 

******************

 

I would stay away from Dark Angels and their successors for geneseed ... very difficult to work all their 'special needs' in.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I'm not responding to everything - generally if I don't say anything, I agree and will work the change into the next draft. Even if I say something, I may just explaining what I was thinking with that choice.

 

The Angels of Absolution contributed gene-seed, the Apothecary Val Stonecipher of their First Company, and twenty-four of their marines to the 7th Founding.

#A This sentence feels out of place. The jump between the opening and creation of the Chapter is too abrupt.

#B The gene-seed for the new founding is grown on the Mars. ... the gene-seed of the Angels of Absolution was chosen... or something like that.

#C Why Apothecary? His role in the Chapter is field-medic.

#D 24 is a lot of marines.

 

A - Thinking about this.

B - Agree

C - Flavor. Also because it seemed interesting. Normally it might be a Captain, but why not an Apothecary?

D - I'm going based on the fluff articles i found on this site that seemed to indicate between 20 and 40 marines might be contributed to be the nucleus of the new Chapter. It might be better if made them a training cadre. This would also explain why they might not tell the new Chapter about Cypher.

 

 

Why Imperial Paladins? ::They are of unknown Founding, so I will be wary to use them.::

 

That was kind of a throwback from a previous version. I was trying to establish a more knightly pedigree without invoking the Black Templars. I got what I needed from the gene-seed - more on that later. I don't think being from an unknown founding is bad per se, it just means you should not tie yourself to a specific gene-seed.

 

He envisioned a Space Marine as a holy warrior taking up the god-emperor's fight against the xenos, the rebels, and the mutants.

He envisioned the obvious.

BTW, SM's don't see Emperor as a God.

 

I would say MOST Space Marines don't see the Emperor as god. I don't see why they couldn't though. It would make them demigods of course which was a contributing factor to the hubris that almost caused them to fall, a fact which is a dirty secret of the Chapter's.

 

That state of mind coincidentally included, in the words of a doctor of that time, a "sense of spiritual well-being and contentment."

Ok. So in order to keep the sickness at bay, they had to be high? ;)

 

I was going for more of a zen thing. The idea was to make them deeply spiritual and also to incorporate a strong sense within the Chapter that they have a moral obligation to do some charity (in this case medical) to offset the destruction of their wars.

 

In a few weeks, the campaign to liberate Sanctum ended, General al-Wazir falling in a personal duel with the Grand Master himself.

Just quick question: Is he the same guy, mentioned before? If so, how it come, he is still alive after several centuries?

 

Excellent point. Obviously a direct descendant. ;) Seriously, I made a glaring mistake. It's a place I can add more explanation, but that adds more of those unnecessary details. Maybe if I said "renegade leader"?

 

+++++

Overall:

The downfall of this IA is your tendency to drown your reader with huge amount of details. The Homeworld section is the prime example of this. Do we really need to know all this?

Second, you are shoehorning your marines into something, which they aren't (or aren't supposed to be). The Astartes are living-weapons, they purpose and urge is war. Making them doctors and physicians is just weird.

Another thing is the Emperor. Cults of Marines are different from the usual belief in the Imperium. The marines revere Emperor as the Greatest of men, divine but not god-like.

The last point, Angels of Absolution are the Unforgiven. Where is the Hunt of the Fallen?

 

I know I have a lot of detail and I already pruned quite a bit out. The thing is the planet so much shapes the later character of the Chapter. The planet needs to have a sort of zen like tradition that became martial by necessity. however, the spirituality is still the true strength of the people. Second, the planet needs to be toxic and almost unlivable. I suppose I could cut out some more about the way the planet's climate helped create the stalemate, but then I keep feeling that leaves wide open the question as to why one side or the other never managed to win this war over such a long time. Can you be more specific on what you think are the unnecessary details vs the necessary ones? I'm not sure I can make out the forest for the trees on this issue.

 

As to the Unforgiven, my understanding is that the folks who refer to themselves as the Unforgiven are the Dark Angels and their Second Founding descendants. My White Templars are not second founding. If i could have, I would have picked a tertiary descendant of the Dark Angels, but I am aware of none. This is another reason I originally chose an Apothecary. The White Templars are a codex chapter as GW made clear, and I saw no reason why such a chapter could not be a later founding spin-off of the Dark Angel gene-seed. After all, that seed has no genetic mutations and still breeds true. This was discussed by me and some others back in 2008 when this DIY was born. i also don't want to have Dorn-seed which since the White Templars has "Templars" in it's name is very commonly assumed/suggested. I also didn't want to have Ultra-seed, just because it is so common and I have another DIY idea that it is especially suitable for.

 

Dan

[NightrawenII]

C - Flavor. Also because it seemed interesting. Normally it might be a Captain, but why not an Apothecary?

Because as a medic, he has no experince with commanding. The leadership skill isn't indication nor requirement for his job. IMHO making him alpa-guy in the new Chapter is hazardous and not worth the risk.

 

D - I'm going based on the fluff articles i found on this site that seemed to indicate between 20 and 40 marines might be contributed to be the nucleus of the new Chapter. It might be better if made them a training cadre. This would also explain why they might not tell the new Chapter about Cypher.

Well, 24 marines is 1/4 of company.

 

That was kind of a throwback from a previous version. I was trying to establish a more knightly pedigree without invoking the Black Templars. I got what I needed from the gene-seed - more on that later. I don't think being from an unknown founding is bad per se, it just means you should not tie yourself to a specific gene-seed.

Ehm, you are missing the point. Imperial Paladins are unknown Founding, so it's questionable whenever they existed during 7th Founding or not.

 

I would say MOST Space Marines don't see the Emperor as god. I don't see why they couldn't though. It would make them demigods of course which was a contributing factor to the hubris that almost caused them to fall, a fact which is a dirty secret of the Chapter's.

Yeah, I see your point, but you are using it as Deus ex Plot. :(

Plus, the Angels of Absolution are 2nd Founding. So it's unlikely for them to worship Emperor as a God.

 

Can you be more specific on what you think are the unnecessary details vs the necessary ones? I'm not sure I can make out the forest for the trees on this issue.

To quote someone, who is wiser than me -_- :

Shorter is almost always better

Find extraneous words. Cut them. Find extraneous sentences. Cut them. With every sentence, ask yourself what this adds to the IA. With every word, ask yourself whether you need it, whether you could say it better in fewer words (or as well in fewer words). Don't be afraid to expand every so often, but make sure that everything does something. Look at paragraphs. Ask why they're so long, and what you can do about it. The best writing is, to quote Mr. Croshaw, short and punchy.

 

Some people say it with diamonds. You should be saying it with less.

 

I will now tell the story of Spider Robinson.

 

So Spider sends this story to his editor. And his editor calls him and says "It's great. Now cut 1000 words."

 

Spider explains how he can't do this. The editor tells him to pretend that someone's paying him a dollar for each word he cuts. Spider succeeds in cutting 500 words, but can't do any more. He calls his editor back and tells him so.

 

The editor suggests that Spider pretend that someone will break a bone (one of Spider's, that is) for each word Spider's over. The joke's on the editor, of course, because Spider doesn't have 500 bones!

 

Spider cuts another 500, crying inside. Then he rereads it, and discovers that it's a much better story.

 

You can argue with me. But Spider Robinson has won three Hugos, a Nebula, the John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer and the Robert A. Heinlein Award. He knows how to write, better than you or me or both of us put together. And cutting down his word count improved his writing.

 

Draw your own conclusions.

 

 

As to the Unforgiven, my understanding is that the folks who refer to themselves as the Unforgiven are the Dark Angels and their Second Founding descendants.

The last Codex: DA retconned this. All successors of DA are called the Unforgiven.(pg. 10)

 

This was discussed by me and some others back in 2008 when this DIY was born.

The link doesn't work.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

C - Flavor. Also because it seemed interesting. Normally it might be a Captain, but why not an Apothecary?

Because as a medic, he has no experince with commanding. The leadership skill isn't indication nor requirement for his job. IMHO making him alpha-guy in the new Chapter is hazardous and not worth the risk.

 

What would you think of a former Apothecary who became a Captain?

 

That was kind of a throwback from a previous version. I was trying to establish a more knightly pedigree without invoking the Black Templars. I got what I needed from the gene-seed - more on that later. I don't think being from an unknown founding is bad per se, it just means you should not tie yourself to a specific gene-seed.

Ehm, you are missing the point. Imperial Paladins are unknown Founding, so it's questionable whenever they existed during 7th Founding or not.

 

Unfortunately, if I cannot use Dark Angel Gene Seed, I'm going to have to come back to this idea. There is nothing to say the Imperial Paladins didn't exist then either. I'm just not sure that I see his as a major issue. I could also make up a chapter name from whole cloth like Storm Lions, I suppose.

 

I would say MOST Space Marines don't see the Emperor as god. I don't see why they couldn't though. It would make them demigods of course which was a contributing factor to the hubris that almost caused them to fall, a fact which is a dirty secret of the Chapter's.

Yeah, I see your point, but you are using it as Deus ex Plot. :)

Plus, the Angels of Absolution are 2nd Founding. So it's unlikely for them to worship Emperor as a God.

 

Your second point definitely has merit. What I want to do is create a sense that Val is extremely pious (which was why he got the job of leading the new chapter). I just didn't want to say, "he was very pious" because good writing shows rather than simply tells. His piety is important because it is what leads him to turn from the path of damnation he was on and introduce the humility and charity as core beliefs of the chapter.

 

Can you be more specific on what you think are the unnecessary details vs the necessary ones? I'm not sure I can make out the forest for the trees on this issue.

Quote removed.

 

Yeah, I already read that, and I understand in the abstract that things need to be reduced. However, I was hoping you might point out some specific details about Sanctum that you thought were unnecessary.

 

As to the Unforgiven, my understanding is that the folks who refer to themselves as the Unforgiven are the Dark Angels and their Second Founding descendants.

The last Codex: DA retconned this. All successors of DA are called the Unforgiven.(pg. 10)

 

Well damn. I didn't really want to be a Dark Angel Successor. Now I have to choose it would seem. I don't want Dorn and I don't want the Ultras.... I may be back to picking a chapter whose gene seed has never been designated. Or one that is just knightly.

 

This was discussed by me and some others back in 2008 when this DIY was born.

The link doesn't work.

 

Odd. I used the Article = mechanism. The full link is http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=148949 from Oct of 2008. Or if you search Liber for "white templars" you'll find it fairly quickly. Just look for threads I started.

[NightrawenII]

What would you think of a former Apothecary who became a Captain?

It could work, however it adds unnecessary explanation to your text.

 

Unfortunately, if I cannot use Dark Angel Gene Seed, I'm going to have to come back to this idea. There is nothing to say the Imperial Paladins didn't exist then either. I'm just not sure that I see his as a major issue. I could also make up a chapter name from whole cloth like Storm Lions, I suppose.

Major issue is too strong. I just don't like uncertainty :P .

 

What I want to do is create a sense that Val is extremely pious (which was why he got the job of leading the new chapter). I just didn't want to say, "he was very pious" because good writing shows rather than simply tells. His piety is important because it is what leads him to turn from the path of damnation he was on and introduce the humility and charity as core beliefs of the chapter.

[silly question]Then why did he not became a Chaplain?[/silly question]

 

I see your aim, but consider this:

The Vals' piety leads the Chapter to believe in their demigod status and acting all high and mighty.

Later the same piety saves them from path of damnation.

 

For me, the Val's piety is rather plot-hook(with self-destruction mode no less) than interesting quirk.

 

Yeah, I already read that, and I understand in the abstract that things need to be reduced. However, I was hoping you might point out some specific details about Sanctum that you thought were unnecessary.

Well, I could tell you what I think is unneccessary, but right now I'm the only one, who C&C your IA. It's possible that my sage-brothers like your ideas and I'm just bitching here for nothing. :)

So I will give rest to this issue until someone else made a comment.

 

Well damn. I didn't really want to be a Dark Angel Successor. Now I have to choose it would seem. I don't want Dorn and I don't want the Ultras.... I may be back to picking a chapter whose gene seed has never been designated. Or one that is just knightly.

You could use a Iron Hand's gene-seed, but this will create more problems than solve.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

As to the Unforgiven, my understanding is that the folks who refer to themselves as the Unforgiven are the Dark Angels and their Second Founding descendants.

The last Codex: DA retconned this. All successors of DA are called the Unforgiven.(pg. 10)

 

I looked hard at the new codex and I don't think I agree. On page 11 it talks about the grand masters of the successor chapters, but it just got done saying that the successors were the ones created when the legions were broken up, i.e. the First Founding.

 

On page 73, the text says that the Successors are the chapters formed when the legion was broken up (and that there are more that are unknown) and that these are the Unforgiven. There is also a text block on the side of the chart on that page that seems to be very clear that, "The Dark Angels and their Second Founding successors refer to themselves as the Unforgiven."

 

In view of that, it seems the text of the Unforgiven section on page 10 must be read to refer and limit itself to, "In the aftermath of the Horus Heresy...." Like the references on Page 11 and 73, the paragraph starts off by saying that the Successors were formed in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy and then it says all Successors are Unforgiven. I think the second sentence has to be read using the definition of the first sentence. Otherwise, it disagree with other material in the same Codex, especially the text box on page 73.

 

Am I missing some reference in the Codex?

 

And I certainly agree that any Chapter that adopts Dark Angel organization (Deathwing & Ravenwing) is Unforgiven.

 

Thanks.

[NightrawenII]

I looked hard at the new codex and I don't think I agree. On page 11 it talks about the grand masters of the successor chapters, but it just got done saying that the successors were the ones created when the legions were broken up, i.e. the First Founding.

The Circles within Circles informs us that the Second Founding Chapters know the secrets of the DA. That's all.

 

On page 73, the text says that the Successors are the chapters formed when the legion was broken up (and that there are more that are unknown) and that these are the Unforgiven. There is also a text block on the side of the chart on that page that seems to be very clear that, "The Dark Angels and their Second Founding successors refer to themselves as the Unforgiven."

It should be noted that the table is copy-paste job from the 3rd ed. material. So hmm....

 

However, the text on the page 73 is not specific, whether the "Successors" is refering to the 2nd Founding Chapters or all Chapters created from the DA gene-seed.

 

Another thing to consider is the fact that Guardians of the Covenant and the Disciples of Caliban are the Unforgiven too.

 

Which brings us back to the pg. 10 line "...all of their Successors are the Unforgiven."