New FAQ Skimmer Ramifications

[wolf363839]

So what does the Fang think about the new FAQ just released by GW? Specifically, how do you interpret:

 

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it

moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)

A: They are removed as casualties.

 

Some have said that "turn" only refers to a "player turn" (pg 9 BRB) which means that the passengers are not killed if the vehicle is destroyed by shooting in the subsequent player's shooting phase.

 

I interpret it as being intended as a "game turn" which means that if a Wave Serpeant or Valkyrie moved flat out in the previous enemy's movement phase, if you immobilize or destroy it outright, then the troops inside die along with it.

 

What do you guys think?

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...ok_FAQ_V1_1.pdf

[dswanick]

Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns. Whenever a rule uses the word 'turn', both in this rule book and in the Codexes, it means 'player turn', otherwise it will clearly state 'game turn'.

Personally, I think it stinks. But since I wasn't consulted before the rules were written, I guess I don;t get a vote. <_<

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

I think "game turn" makes the most sense by far.

[nurglez]

I think the term player turn makes the most sense, as that is fairer, otherwise any fast transport moving flat out is a worse death trap then vehicles were in the last edition, which i doubt is the intent.

[wolf363839]

I assume that "destroyed in the same turn as it moved flat out" means the entire turn, not the player turn.

 

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)

A: They are removed as casualties.

 

Four questions down in the FAQ, it states that a skimmer is destroyed when it becomes immobilized during its movement phase when moving flat out:

 

Q: If a skimmer is immobilised in its own Movement phase whilst moving flat out is it still destroyed? (p71)

A: Yes.

 

There would be no reason to have two Q & As unless they intended to mean that a vehicle destroyed [by enemy fire] while moving flat out will also result in removing the passengers as casualties. In the first Q & A above it also says "destroyed," which is different than an "immobilized" result that can occur during the movement phase and/or the shooting phase.

 

I know it sucks, but I think that's the correct interpretation.

[Adarul Greystalker]

This whole "player turn" vs "game turn" distinction is problematic, and needs to be addressed seriously by GW. This instance is a good example of what I mean.

 

If this rule only applies during the same player turn, then it only applies to instances where the vehicle is destroyed during movement or by friendly fire, and doesn't apply at all if the vehicle is destroyed by the enemy, which is very counter-intuitive, in my opinion. If it applies during the entire game turn, then the rule can come into effect if the vehicle is destroyed by the enemy... if the enemy is going second in the turn order. If the player going second in the turn order moves flat out, the game turn ends at the end of his/her player turn and the rule cannot apply during the next player turn. This is even less intuitive, but it's the ruling that stands on issues such as Njal Stormcaller's Lord of Tempests powers.

 

There should be a third definition of "turn" which applies for the rest of the current and the next player turns. This would fix The Stormcaller's powers, these ambiguous skimmer rules, and probably a host of other things. I'm going to house rule this I think.

[Grimtooth]

While I wish it was for the game turn, it is the player turn exactly for the reason the OP pointed out.

 

I think it should be the game turn since the cover save for moving flat out as well as the 6s needed to hit last throughout the game turn. If the skimmer player gets the bonus' of flat out for a game turn, he should also get the risks.

[OnlyInDeath]

While I wish it was for the game turn, it is the player turn exactly for the reason the OP pointed out.

 

I think it should be the game turn since the cover save for moving flat out as well as the 6s needed to hit last throughout the game turn. If the skimmer player gets the bonus' of flat out for a game turn, he should also get the risks.

 

 

I would think that it's game turn for exactly the reasons that you point out. The effects of moving flat out last through the entire game turn. A "turn" is used to represent the action of a battle in dynamic motion. A speeder that moves flat out is moving flat out until it's next movement phase, in which case it may slow to a different speed or keep on moving flat out. I think the clarified rule is trying to slow down some crazy fast armies out there. This may prove to be a massive headache for the eldar and dark eldar players out there, but it will also require judicial movements of your vehicles: ie, using them to deposit troops as fast as possible, then using them as mobile weapons platforms as opposed to hanging back all game and moving flat out to make them hard to destroy, before swooping in towards the end of the game to just take objectives.

[Grey Mage]

So what does the Fang think about the new FAQ just released by GW? Specifically, how do you interpret:

 

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it

moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)

A: They are removed as casualties.

 

Some have said that "turn" only refers to a "player turn" (pg 9 BRB) which means that the passengers are not killed if the vehicle is destroyed by shooting in the subsequent player's shooting phase.

 

I interpret it as being intended as a "game turn" which means that if a Wave Serpeant or Valkyrie moved flat out in the previous enemy's movement phase, if you immobilize or destroy it outright, then the troops inside die along with it.

 

What do you guys think?

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...ok_FAQ_V1_1.pdf

The BRB states that unless it specificly says 'game turn' its always 'player turn'. Nothing has really changed- you still cannot blow up someones fast moving transport and kill the occupants, it only works if they die in that players turn.l

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It is player turn.

 

+++

 

Think about this. Deldar versus Wolves.

 

T1 Deldar Raider flat-outs. Wolf shoots it and all the passengers get blown up.

Cool.

 

Try this then.

 

T1 Wolf finishes his turn. Deldar Raider flat-outs.

T2 Wolf shoots it and all the passengers live, because it is not the same game turn....

 

It could never be game turn :)

 

The only thing the FAQ really changes is if the Fast vehicle rams something, or gets Death or Glory'ed.

[Grey Mage]

However, that is good- the ramming of enemy tanks to try and blow them up so DE could then assault turn 1 was rather ridiculous.

[Grimtooth]

So get Tempest Wrath cast as soon as possible!

[dswanick]

So get Tempest Wrath cast as soon as possible!

And 50pts for Master of Runes is starting to look like a no-brainer against D.Eldar/Eldar/even Tau.

[breng77]

I think it should be the game turn since the cover save for moving flat out as well as the 6s needed to hit last throughout the game turn. If the skimmer player gets the bonus' of flat out for a game turn, he should also get the risks.

 

They already do, it is destroyed on an immobilized result, destroying the squad inside is overboard. This would also be a problem for other non skimmer fast vehicles, if a BA rhino moves flat out it does not benefit from a cover save but would be hurt by it being both player turns.

 

I think player turn makes the most sense and is the most fair.

[Iacton Qruze]

RAW, it is player turn.

 

The clarification, I believe, is to stop the ram/assault tactic.

[slmellon]

This rule makes no sense...I skimmer flies across the board on the players turn and the only way it can get destroyed is what if it gets shot at by its own people or accidently rolls into cover and then rolls a one, but who is going to risk that. It make no sense. It gets a cover bonus for an entire game turn for moving flat out but doesnt recieve the same length of risk.

 

Imagine a plane flying and getting shot out of the sky, who is going to survive that? Even if they survive the shooting, they thing still is going to hit the earth going way to fast, there should be a rule that says when it hits the ground it moves 2D6 and anything in its path gets something bad happening to them.

[breng77]

Imagine a plane flying and getting shot out of the sky, who is going to survive that? Even if they survive the shooting, they thing still is going to hit the earth going way to fast, there should be a rule that says when it hits the ground it moves 2D6 and anything in its path gets something bad happening to them.

 

The guy that ejects from said plane with a parachute will survive. Is the skimmer flat out rule really that over powered that something terrible has to happen other than the fact that the skimmer dies more easily if it fails its cover save.

 

The rule makes things like tank shocking and ramming with a skimmer much more dangerous if there are troops on board.

[slmellon]

Is the skimmer flat out rule really that over powered that something terrible has to happen other than the fact that the skimmer dies more easily if it fails its cover save.

 

I am not saying it is or isnt, I am thinking about the physics of shooting a flying vehicle from the sky and what that effect has on the surroundings.

I also like to complain about why Bolters arent Assault weapons