Tyrant´s Legion with CSM

[Prokrustes]

Had the chance to look through IA 9 today and I really like the Tyrants Legion list. I also always had a weak spot for Huron (Fluffwise not necessarily this incarnation in game). In the book they mention that there is the option to replace the Space Marines in the list "with their equivalent from Codex: Chaos Space Marines". Now...ermh..how am I supposed to do that without rewriting the whole list? What is our equivalent to ATNSKF? Could I use Icons? What with the weapons we dont have access to? etc.

Anybody has done this before, is planning to do it, or can offer me some advice how to do it?

I fear that if I take just parts of the list it will be hard to find anybody playing me because it would be completely homebrewn and looks as if I had just been cherry picking (which is not my intent.)

[Seahawk]

Terminator Squads = Chaos Terminator Squads

Tactical Squads = Chaos Space Marine Squads

Assault Squads = Raptor Squads

Bike Squads = Chaos Bike Squads

Devastator Squads = Havoc Squads

 

You're making it harder than you need to. By replacing the loyalist marine unit option, you simply take the chaos marine unit option instead. Chaos marines don't have ATSKNF, obviously, and loyalists don't have Icons. It is cherry picking, it is intentional, and mostly likely you won't be able to play it anyway because people don't like seeing Forgeworld for some reason.

 

Play with friends though and you'll be able to use the cool stuff far more often.

[Lexington]

I fear that if I take just parts of the list it will be hard to find anybody playing me because it would be completely homebrewn and looks as if I had just been cherry picking (which is not my intent.)

While I wouldn't really mind playing against it, I'd probably ask you why the hell your Marine's weapons reverted to pre-Heresy equivalents just because they got into a war with the Imperium.

[Legatus]

Probably because it is easier to steal a few autocannons from PDF regiments than to steal Plasma Cannons from another Adeptus Astartes Chapter. And it is probably easier to twin link two boltguns than to manufacture an actual storm bolter.

[the jeske]

a storm bolter is on every imperial tank/transport so it is actualy easier to get both the weapon and parts for it then a PDF auto canon . plasma canons are odd here too, if they were realy so rare then chaos shouldnt be able to produce both the guns and the cells for them , but somehow they do [they even produce them for their dreads] . Besides if IG can mass produce plasmacanons so should forge world heavy legions like IW for example.

[Legatus]

With plasma cannons I assume it's the power cells. They have to be small enough so that one single Marine can carry enough of them for a mission, but they also have to have enough power for effective use. Back during the Heresy there were only the low power plasma guns and vehicle mounted plasma cannons where power supply was not an issue.

 

And I would assume that even if only every fifth IG infantry heavy weapon was an auto cannon it would still be more common than vehicle mounted storm bolters. And on the other hand Chaos forces generally use more twin linked boltguns (on Terminators, Dreadnoughts or Rhino variants) than auto cannons. So with them needing more twin linked boltguns and less auto cannond, and wit hautocannons being more easily to loot than storm bolters, I think them having access to auto cannons but not to storm bolters makes sense.

[Rain]

Uh yeah there's that--or--it's just something arbitrary that GW keeps to preserve a distinction between loyalists and Chaos. I mean I would agree with these explanations except that the actual Chaos codex has a picture of a man-portable plasma cannon that is cited as an "M31 pattern". So there were man portable plasma cannons in the crusade/heresy era, meaning that they must have already invented the power cells and all of that other jazz.

 

So really it's best not to overthink it, the armies have what they have because they do, and really I think that representing Red Corsairs with Codex:Chaos is kind of silly given that they have only been traitors for a few decades or so, meaning that their land speeders should not have yet magically fallen apart and been replaced with defilers. Oh and just out of curiosity, what is the Tyrant's Legion list like? Any unique units or wargear or just arbitrary limitations on the existing marine list? Just wondering because I might pick up the book if the list is unique/intriguing enough.

[Legatus]

I mean I would agree with these explanations except that the actual Chaos codex has a picture of a man-portable plasma cannon that is cited as an "M31 pattern". So there were man portable plasma cannons in the crusade/heresy era, meaning that they must have already invented the power cells and all of that other jazz.

In the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos there was a specific explanation that portable Plasma Cannons had not yet been in use at that time. Perhaps the 4th Edition Codex was supposed to retcon thath, but I could easily see that the artist just got carried away and they just printed it like that.

 

"When the Legions began re-equipping, a number of weapons which would come to be in common use later were still experimental or even purely theoretical. Many weapons relied on sciences that were barely understood but which had been found in ancient vaults of dark technology and copied for general use. For example, the Traitor Legions had no access to Melta bombs or multi-meltas, but melta-guns were commonly available. Likewise, portable (though dangerous) plasma guns and even pistols existed but the heavy plasma gun* could only be mounted on a Dreadnought or a vehicle."

2nd Edition Codex Chaos, p. 71.

 

*"Heavy plasma gun" was the name for "plasma cannons" in 2nd Edition.

 

 

and really I think that representing Red Corsairs with Codex:Chaos is kind of silly given that they have only been traitors for a few decades or so, meaning that their land speeders should not have yet magically fallen apart and been replaced with defilers.

The Badab uprising was ended in 912.M41, I think that is enough time for most complicated equipment to fail without proper maintenance.

[Rain]

Ok, but why could they maintain say their predators but not their razorbacks? I guess you could argue that land speeders are too "advanced" to maintain by a pirate fleet, but what about just the variants of vehicles that Chaos marines use anyway? Oh and Chaos has meltabombs, both in fluff and rules now.

 

Also, this is 40k, in the real world any artifacts no matter how well maintained would not survive 10,000 years unless kept in vacuum chambers so the very idea that marine vets and officers can be wearing heresy era relics is patently ridiculous (and yet they do in fluff!) unless those relics have been basically remade hundreds of times.

 

Which is really my point, some things in the 40k world are simply not logical and have to be accepted at face value and not thought about too much because the universe is fictional and often functions based on what its creators think is cool rather than what they think would actually work or make sense. This leads to certain fringe cases like Red Corsairs that can really be played with 2 codices and be fluffy, perhaps even with the non-standard codex making more sense.

[the jeske]

well some stuff can be explained . like the LS for example , not there before the heresy in most legions [en mass that is. of course that make the NL strange , how their huge number of raptors can maintain their superior jet packs so long] , so if after 10k years of total and un ending war most would not be working , as LS are not[since 3ed] used by most loyalist factions , the only way for a chaos warband to get it is from other sm . For that they would have to win and the LS would have to be not destroyed at the end of battle . Not an easy thing to do . Same with TH. didnt exist pre heresy and the only way to get them right now is to find a terminator [which means a strong loyalist presance] or an officer , and then you would have to get parts, for it if it gets broken . So hard to maintain . But SB or plasma weaponry is mass produced , even IG officers and troopers have access to those . + we have to remember that legion csm [it would be different with the renagades] are from a time where the stand point on tech was different , not so religious and much closer to the golden age .

I mean If it was the SW who invented the tri las pred how do we get to use it ?

 

 

*"Heavy plasma gun" was the name for "plasma cannons" in 2nd Edition.

I know that . thing is tons of the 2ed fluff considering tech was retconed. We no longer use different mk of plasma guns [in fact chaos plasma guns were superior , no cooldown used] , our raptors dont use jet packs [they should work more like warp spiders or tau battlesuits in the rules] which are superior the loyalist desing etc. And we did use hvy plasma on dreads . We did not have man portable plasma in 2ed , because of the cooling cell problems early plasma had . Which in the new books we dont find any traces of .

[Prokrustes]

Uh yeah there's that--or--it's just something arbitrary that GW keeps to preserve a distinction between loyalists and Chaos. I mean I would agree with these explanations except that the actual Chaos codex has a picture of a man-portable plasma cannon that is cited as an "M31 pattern". So there were man portable plasma cannons in the crusade/heresy era, meaning that they must have already invented the power cells and all of that other jazz.

 

So really it's best not to overthink it, the armies have what they have because they do, and really I think that representing Red Corsairs with Codex:Chaos is kind of silly given that they have only been traitors for a few decades or so, meaning that their land speeders should not have yet magically fallen apart and been replaced with defilers. Oh and just out of curiosity, what is the Tyrant's Legion list like? Any unique units or wargear or just arbitrary limitations on the existing marine list? Just wondering because I might pick up the book if the list is unique/intriguing enough.

 

Mostly variations of Space Marines with different rules. Quiet a bit of Renegade rabble. Truly unique units..hmm...sentry guns? Quiet some stuff that reminds of codex ig and flyers.Imho I think the book is awesome and the list looks like alot of fun to play. Also nice stuff for scenario battles like boarding actions etc. not sure if that helps.

 

Thanks for the help so far!