Terminator Tactics and advice...

[LardO'Blood]

Ok thanks. How do I kill banshees and harlequins? I was thinking mass AC and SB fire like genestealers.

How do you get your CC weapons if you just magnetize? Do you buy close combat terminators for bodies and weapons or the bits packs?

In pure DW where does my AT come from? Assault terminators in Land raiders or Dreadnoughts?

How do you deal with Ork mobs? I was thinking of LRC and assault terminators.

How do you utilize DWA? I was thinking of using it with one or three squads as a "transport" to get them as far up as my land raiders on turn one. (go 12 with land raiders and have a terminator squad or two already there to back it up)

In a competitive green-deathwing list (if these exist) are the majority of points spent on terminators, venerable Dreadnoughts and land raiders or greenwing stuff?

Is dread locking a waste of valuable points for DW?

Are TH/SS terminators worth it? (basically should I buy the bits pack)

[Tanhausen]

I've been talking with gillyfish and Isiah... we are implementing a new DA subforum rule: pay per reply xDD

 

Ok thanks. How do I kill banshees and harlequins? I was thinking mass AC and SB fire like genestealers.

Shoot at them, T3. AC is ID.. but since only 1W, heavy flamers (2+ to wound) will be more tan enough

How do you get your CC weapons if you just magnetize? Do you buy close combat terminators for bodies and weapons or the bits packs?

Don't quite get the question... if I buy 2 boxes (1 assault, 1 tactical) I can mix and match whatever I need. What I did was getting AoBR as said and then a couple assault boxes.

In pure DW where does my AT come from? Assault terminators in Land raiders or Dreadnoughts?

The question is not AT... but LONG RANGE AT, which we only get through lass cannon dreads. Close AT is Chanfist, LRC MM, even humble PF and TH/SS.

How do you deal with Ork mobs? I was thinking of LRC and assault terminators.

Shame on you for a 600 points list with a LRC! LRC is the best vs mobs/swarms... as well as HF and basically anything that has a template/blast.

How do you utilize DWA? I was thinking of using it with one or three squads as a "transport" to get them as far up as my land raiders on turn one. (go 12 with land raiders and have a terminator squad or two already there to back it up)

I don't use it anymore... except for some games where I want to "surprise" my opponent and go for ONE unit with CML trying to catch side armour. Too much plasma and melta nowadays to simply stay in the open.

In a competitive green-deathwing list (if these exist) are the majority of points spent on terminators, venerable Dreadnoughts and land raiders or greenwing stuff?

That depends on the list you end up building and why you build that list and how that list works for you :)

Is dread locking a waste of valuable points for DW?

No, they give you tactical flexibilty that terminators and LR can't deliver

Are TH/SS terminators worth it? (basically should I buy the bits pack)

I carry 1 in each squad, try and dump the power weapon wound to them. If you get an assault box, you'll get 4 IIRC.

 

Hope it helps!

[LardO'Blood]

Does anybody have slogging or mechanised terminator advise?

I've tried two battles at 600 with this list and got tabled both times, it was quite annoying. Is it just a waste of time to try DW at 600 points?

Belial, LC

Terminator squad, AC, CF

Terminator squad, CF

[pueriexdeus]

Does anybody have slogging or mechanised terminator advise?

I've tried two battles at 600 with this list and got tabled both times, it was quite annoying. Is it just a waste of time to try DW at 600 points?

Belial, LC

Terminator squad, AC, CF

Terminator squad, CF

What did you play against?

[LardO'Blood]

Orks. <_<

2 mobs, a 5 man nob squad and a warboss. All nobs and warboss had power klaws,

[Tanhausen]

You got tabled by orks because of 6 PK?

 

Either you had some TERRIBLE luck or your squad config needs updating!

 

Even if you got assaulted, the Belial + HF squad should, AT LEAST and assuming you only carry the sarge with Ini 4 and no other claws,...they should deliver 1.5 wounds before they swing... and the PF/CF/TH should be another 3.32 wounds, for a total of 4.8 aprox.

 

What about tactica? How did you play/go?

[breng77]

At 600 points I would honestly expect to lose to Orks. You have (if pure DW) 2 Squads and Belial, against 60+ orks. You just cannot do enough damage to effectively kill the orks.

[pueriexdeus]

You need to kill these guys at range. CC is your undoing.

 

I played a similar game some time ago and won with shooting alone.

700 point game Greenwing Vs. Orks. The Ork player got most all his stuff from AoBR

 

IChappi w/JP. In the DZ

Tac: PF, PG, ML. Rhino TLLC/HKM. Combat Sqd Sgt, Pg in Rzrbk

Devs: 2x HB, 2x PC. Combat Sqd 1 ea HB, PC

 

I dont remember his set up exactly.

30+/- Boys of some sort w/Boss

2x Truks

3x Defcoptas

 

Capture objective game; 3, one in each 12" deployment zone and one in the middle of the 4x4 table.

 

He moved first, out of range did nothing. My first turn moved the Rzrbk & Chappi up on my left flank. Destroyed both Truks and all 3 Defcoptas at range with the combined fire power sitting on my Obj, forcing him to walk across the table. By turn five all he had left was his Boss near the center of the table and I had his and my Obj's without a single loss.

 

So it can be done if you plan it right. Using DW I would go with Belial, DW Sqd w/AC or Standard, 2x Mortis with either TLHB's or TLAC's. Drop the big B and his Sqd just close enough that the SB's are in range. Fire, fall back, fire, fall back. By the time he gets close enough to assault the Ork player should be seriously depleted.

[LardO'Blood]

The biggest problem maybe is that the boards are like 36" long and 60" wide max.

I can't really use relentless just to fire and move back. Plus he has run, and on one turn, fleet.

Heres an idea!

Belial, LC

DW squad, AC

5 man tactical squad

dreadnought, auto cannon and missile launcher

How will this list go up against ork hordes and tyranid genestealer/MC spam?

[breng77]

@ pueriexdeus - certainly you can beat orks with DA at 700 just not with Deathwing. The list you put down is illegal as it does not have 2 troops and the mortis dread is only allowed if you use IA rules it is not an option in the standard codex. For Pure DW at 600 points your list is

 

Belial

 

2 x DW Squad (they can either both have Cyclones, or one can have an Assault cannon and the other a heavy flamer with one chain fist on a termi.)

 

At 600 points orks can (an often will) Take

 

Warboss w/ PK

 

2 x 24 boyz w/ Nob/PK

 

1x 15 boys x Nob/PK

 

So lets say you take the 2 cyclones (probably better) and are playing with pitched battle deployment. We'll give you first turn. You go, at best you can kill 1 squad that turn if, you hit with all your shots and your templates, wound with all your shots, and the orks are not in cover. If you get good coverage with your templates and hit odds on your storm bolters you kill about 11 orks (assuming there is not cover.) On his turn he moves 9" toward you (assuming an average run. and is (24-9=13 inches away). On your turn You move 6" back (19 inches) (keeping your squads apart) and kill off the first squad (probably their might be a couple orks left. On his turn he moves 10 inches (4 inch run making up for the 3 first turn averages again) (He is now 9" away). Now you can either move 6" back and fire again Killing 11 orks (or 10 and wounding a NOB) Or you move up and shoot and assault (the better choice). If you fall back he calls a Waagh and assaults you (on average) With one squad of 14 boys and a NOb, 1 squad of 15 boys and a NOb and his Warboss. Lets say he gets the 14 + Nob + WB on Belial and his 5 termies. Belial goes first kills one ork. Then your sargent goes He brings the total up to 2. Then you get hit by 48 S 4 attacks. 24 hit and 12 wound. Wounding 2 termies (I"ll Say Belial Takes a wound and the sarge dies just to give you the best result.) Then you swing with 8 PF attacks and Kill 4 more orks. He swings with 9 and Wounds 5 Termies (3 more die). So he loses combat by 1 wound, but you have Belial and one Termi left, He has the Warboss, A NOb and 8 Boyz left. You hope he fails a LD 9 with a boss pole reroll or you are done next turn. The other combat goes much the same You kill 1 ork at I4, he kills 2-3 termies. You kill a couple more orks he kills a couple more termis. If you are not dead you will be next turn. You assaulting him, might net you the win, as he loses lots of attacks, and is only S 3. If the orks go first it ends up about the same. I did assume in this though that you hit with every single template and that each one hit 4 orks. (unlikely)

[LardO'Blood]

So your saying I don't have much of a chance at 600, but then give me a list? I'm confused. I usually use minimal troops and sternguard him as C:SM or lots of 5 man tactical squads with flamers as DA. I really want to be able to rock him with DW. I think I have a better chance against nidz though, MC will die to all my power fists.

Heres an idea!

Belial, LC

DW squad, AC

5 man tactical squad

dreadnought, auto cannon and missile launcher

How will this list go up against ork hordes and tyranid genestealer/MC spam?

How is this list?

[pueriexdeus]

@ pueriexdeus - certainly you can beat orks with DA at 700 just not with Deathwing. The list you put down is illegal as it does not have 2 troops and the mortis dread is only allowed if you use IA rules it is not an option in the standard codex. For Pure DW at 600 points your list is

Been playing Apoc for so long I kinda forgot about the FoC. As a mater of fact my first "normal" game in two years is Friday.

[breng77]

If you really want to bring a squad of termies and Belial at 600 points the best I can probably do is the list I posted above. Your list actually has less long range shooting.

 

At 24 inches my list puts out 22 SB shots and 2 Frag Templates or Krak Missiles. Yours puts out 8 SB Shots, 4 AC shots, 5 Bolter Shots, 2 Auto cannon shots, and 1 frag or Krak. You list averages 10 dead orks (as I calculated above) On the first turn at 24". As soon as you move you lose the 5 Bolter shots from marnines until your opponent is back within 12" At which point you kill about another 2 orks (12 that turn) for one turn before they charge you. The dread might help to tie up a squad or orks in CC but if his PK rolls well then it will be toast.

 

If you use my list if you go first the situation is about how I wrote it above. If you go second you have 2 options. 1 Try to place your squads 30-36 inches away from just one of his squads (if possible) and Try to shoot and fall back as much as possible. 2 deep strike your termies away from his forces after he moves. I would probably opt for option 1 simply because DS is a little random at this point level.

 

As or Genestealer MC Nids, that is another tough call. It really depends on which MC he brings and how they are coming to you. Against Genestealer if they are not huge squads you should be able to shoot them some before they get to CC. If they are outflanking just try to place yourself in the middle of the board, and then shoot and fall back from where they are coming. As for the MC, against tervigons, carnifexes (if you get the charge), and other I 1 creatures you should be alright (although the tervigon will make you fight a bunch of pumped up guants which could be bad.) Against Trygons adn Hive tyrants. You are kind of not in such a good situation. The tyrant should just be shot with Krak missiles on his way across the board (and moved away from). The trygon, if he deep strikes there is not much you can do. Probably try to shoot and then assault it. But it will go first with with 6 attacks and probably kill most if not all of your squad before you get to strike back, and if you did not manage to wound it in shooting, it will probably survive combat (unless you throw both squads at it.)

[Tanhausen]

Quick thoughts:

 

- Vs. Nids, try go get multiple assault, target the gaunts and have the MC eat all those saves due to being fearless.

- Vs. Orks, concentrate fire. Unless he carries Lootas, you're "safe".

 

If he doesn't field vehicles, as breng77 says he'll have lot of minis.

 

If he's smart, he'll keep the deathstar unit close to his mobs, so he can counter assault.

 

But you should be able to wipe out no problem a mob of Orks with even just 1 squad with a bit of mix and match (my standard squad you know... sarge, HF, CF, claws, TH).

 

HF is going to hurt him (wound=kill) plus a couple of storm bolters, you should probably kill say 3-5 orks.

 

When assaulting, I'm not going to go through all the numbers but you're probably going to deliver more than 4 wounds... so he'll take hits due to fearless.

 

If you are still in CC when you get counter-assaulted and survive (or simply, throw your other unit in vs the mob), dump all the wounds vs the weakest so the toughest take fearless wound.

 

I know, I get repetitive with this "tactic" but... its one of the few that actually work to our advantage!

 

If you want to go the shooty way... I'd go for 2 CML and an Apo if possible.

[breng77]

Tanhausen, the problem with assaulty termis at this low points is that You don't kill enough orks before combat, also the orks are more likely to get the charge then you are (if you are against a good player) Because they will gain fleet for one turn, meaning that your Heavy Flamer might not get to shoot. I agree with the tactic of hurting weaker squads (usually) so fearless wounds take over. This is not always the case. If you don't think you are going to survive combat fearless won't help. On top of which if you are counter charged by a squad of ork boyz, you should always attack the new squad as much as possible, as they get more attacks, and have higher strength.

 

There is also one case with tyranid muti-assault where I would disagree with the attack the gaunts. That is if you multi assault gaunts and a Tervigon. Kill the tervigon if possibile. If you do the gaunts will take more wounds, which will probably win combat for you.

[Tanhausen]

As said above, I really don't think DW can deliver under 1k (and I'd even say 1.5k).

 

As for Tervigon...I'll try and dump the S8 attacks to the MC and the LC and PW to the gaunts.

 

What I really think we can't handle properly (even at 2k games) are Trigons, Daemon Princes and similar (T6+, W4+, Ini 4+): we don't have enough S8 fire-rate.

 

For T5 models... hurricane bolters.

 

At 600... maybe the unit with belial+bearer w/claws + claws + sarge... they ought to deliver serious punishement even if assaulted.

 

Sidenote:

 

First games vs my GF with DE... at 500 points.

 

Man its SO difficult to build a decent setup! I ended up with 1 captain + 2x10 marines w/ML... which performed decently until they were within the 45 cm range xD

[breng77]

Yeah DA at under 1k are really handicapped. Because at those point levels, the fact that marines are better point costed really stands out (mostly because what makes us special is virtually unplayable at that low point level).

[LardO'Blood]

Okay guys, a bit of a breakthrough:

My gaming club agreed to let me use the new CML and new SS! But CML are the regular cost and dreadnought smoke launchers are now 5th edition and librarians have only 24" psychic hoods.

I think I'll try this:

Belial

 

2 x DW Squad, 1 CML and the other with a HF and CF.