Blood angels descended from history

[ZONKEY]

I was wondering, which real historical army are the blood angels based on ?

 

and by that i mean ultramarines have hints of the romans and white scars have hints of theMongolians

[MadGreek]

Don't really have an answer for your question, but I wanted to let you know you spelled Sergeant wrong in your Sig. I almost never point out spelling or grammer since we all make mistakes, but it is in your SIG, so would be in every post.

[Kanis]

That's a good question, and a really interesting one. The Blood Angels don't have an overly obvious theme like some other Chapters: Dark Angels being heavily gothic and even knightly, Ultramarines being Greek/Roman, Space Wolves being Norse, etc. I'd be glad to see what people think on this matter also, Zonkey.

[styygens]

I thought Blood Angels had sort of an obvious Italian Renaissance theme and subtle vampire-thing going on.

[Octavulg]

The Blood Angels are vampires. To the hilt.

 

There's a few touches of the Renaissance and Rome, but mostly? Vampires.

 

Not every Chapter's theme is based on a culture. :D

[Volcatus]

Thematically, I always had them pinned as Greek. The love of art, the "statue of a shining Greek god" artificer armour, laurels, and such. Thyco is a Greek name, and Mephisto was a Greek devil.

[shatter]

I suspect ultramarines are of the French Sun King's (Louis XIV) reimagination of classical Imperial European ideal. Quite an idealist... with belief in divine right of kings (love the Emperor, please). He's quite the Lord of Ultramar and with the french seeming name of their primarch, I think it's getting a bit inarguable.

 

Blood Angels are a reimagination of Dante's impression of Renaissance Europe, ie. (catholic) religious philosophy and old testament art gone mad; they're monstrous killers for god in the guise of angels.

 

Dunno about the rest. Not so sure they're so singularly identifiable with a period as such.

 

Khan is thought to be obviously Mongol, but I think he could be anything from mesopotamia cirka 500BC to and including the mongols as commonly accepted... khan is a sovereign title in many areas and times. The hit and run horsie thing was historically noted well before the mongols went on the global warpath. ('parthian shot' crushed Rome's Crassius C100BC)

[Kanis]

Blood Angels are a reimagination of Dante's impression of Renaissance Europe, ie. (catholic) religious philosophy and old testament art gone mad; they're monstrous killers for god in the guise of angels.

 

Dunno about the rest. Not so sure they're so singularly identifiable with a period as such.

 

I think that's an excellent observation, albeit a scary one (maybe not so much, as the Imperium aren't good guys, as we'd like to think). I agree also, as I said before, they're not so easy to pin down as the other "big chapters" can be, though it's not that much harder; however, Shatter I think gave a good historical reference and ideal for the thoughts behind their origins.

 

I personally disagree on the whole vampyrism ideal. The primitive and admittedly, superstitious people (non-Imperial Guard personnel) of the Imperium barely know what an Astartes is, let alone a vampyre as we do. The usage of blood in transfusions is for the work on slowing and/or working on a cure for their Flaw, and even the thirst is not so much a vampyre needing blood to live, it's just a horrendous and tragic insanity. I don't think that qualifies as a vampyre. We don't go around calling the Red Cross people vamps, just for working with blood, do we? This is just my opinion, they could very well be power armored Dracula's disguised as Angels, but to me, they're just suffering from the Imperium's ever constant fear of anything not an ordinary human.

 

Just a few thoughts, brothers. Be well.

[Cpt. Salvatore]

I suspect ultramarines are of the French Sun King's (Louis XIV) reimagination of classical Imperial European ideal. Quite an idealist... with belief in divine right of kings (love the Emperor, please). He's quite the Lord of Ultramar and with the french seeming name of their primarch, I think it's getting a bit inarguable.

 

Blood Angels are a reimagination of Dante's impression of Renaissance Europe, ie. (catholic) religious philosophy and old testament art gone mad; they're monstrous killers for god in the guise of angels.

 

Dunno about the rest. Not so sure they're so singularly identifiable with a period as such.

 

Khan is thought to be obviously Mongol, but I think he could be anything from mesopotamia cirka 500BC to and including the mongols as commonly accepted... khan is a sovereign title in many areas and times. The hit and run horsie thing was historically noted well before the mongols went on the global warpath. ('parthian shot' crushed Rome's Crassius C100BC)

 

 

That is a rather good point Brother. And, I myself second that Renaissance thing. Look on the BA dscriptions: Beautiful, skilled in all aspects of war and in love with art and beauty alltogether. Renaissance ideals when you ask me. And, Dante is pretty much based on Dante Alighieri and Erasmus Tycho speaks volumes for itself, as does names like Machiavi. For me, BA's are Renaissance people with slices of Italy on their chapter pizza. That is why I use italian names for my minis.

[Gv0zD]

Thematically, I always had them pinned as Greek. The love of art, the "statue of a shining Greek god" artificer armour, laurels, and such. Thyco is a Greek name, and Mephisto was a Greek devil.

Blood Angels are a reimagination of Dante's impression of Renaissance Europe, ie. (catholic) religious philosophy and old testament art gone mad; they're monstrous killers for god in the guise of angels.

That is a rather good point Brother. And, I myself second that Renaissance thing. Look on the BA dscriptions: Beautiful, skilled in all aspects of war and in love with art and beauty alltogether. Renaissance ideals when you ask me. And, Dante is pretty much based on Dante Alighieri and Erasmus Tycho speaks volumes for itself, as does names like Machiavi. For me, BA's are Renaissance people with slices of Italy on their chapter pizza. That is why I use italian names for my minis.

My thoughts as well. The whole artistic and tragic part of BA IMHO definitely points to Renaissance. And the use of the Greek names and other attributes (as Volcatus stated) only strenghtens this impression, as Renaissance art and culture took much from the ancient ones. I also think that red color hints to Renaissance Italy, as this color was used in the Venitian Empire flag, as well as in the Empire's uniforms. The other thing that hints to Italy and Venice in particular is the use of masks by BA high ranking warriors such as Dante, Sang Guard or Sanguinor, which in my opinion has some resemblance to the masks worn during the Carnival of Venice.

[Chairman_woo]

As others have suggested the biggest cultural theme is probbably that whole centeral european classical/enlightenment period (thinking 16-1800ish). A very artistic and ultimately rather optimistic period of empire building and social and scientific discovery, ballanced off against the centuries long "dark" ages of supersition (not that the medieval period was anything like as dark as people seemt to think). Seems like the clash of old superstitions and rigid social orders with more enlightened and citizen centric ideals fits our chapters more "benevolent" attitude to the imperium in general, along with their apreciation of fine art and education.

 

At the same time I do think the whole vampire thing is still very significant its just a particular aspect of it rather than vampirism in general, specifically the self imposed torture of denying ones most fundamental compulsion (i.e. blood lust/frenzy). They remind me alot of reformed alcoholics, they know that they desire something sometimes more than life itself, but they know that to give into this would ultimately destroy them so they must endeavour abstain.

[ZONKEY]

I think they could be 1500 era of italy cause as dumb as this sounds the assassins creed names and enviroment made me wonder could they be based on something similar

[Chairman_woo]

I think they could be 1500 era of italy cause as dumb as this sounds the assassins creed names and enviroment made me wonder could they be based on something similar

 

That whole bit of europe was very much like that from 15-1600 onwards, it was basically the most developed and civilised (and politicaly significant) part of the world at the time back when britain was still a bit of a backwater (Britania has only just started to build her empire, and spent most of the medieval period prior being little more than a posession of other north european kings (King Richard (the Lionheart) for instance dident even speak english, and was to all intents and purposes Norman/french!).

 

Similarities with assasins creed are only to be expected, but be carefull as GW basically never steals its fluff from one place at a time. The key is to rip off so many things that you produce something genuinely original and interesting. Certainly there are still healthy doses of Greek and Roman in there and even a bit of Spanish (arguably there are very heavy doses of Roman and Greek in renessance europe anyway). Plus lets not forget about the good old Visi and Ostro-Goths who were also from that part of europe and made quite an impact in their time, theres certainly plenty of Goth in 40k in general but BA have a that bit more relevant a feel being closer to the source of our modern concept of Gothic (i.e. stuff designed in the style of the Gothic people).

 

So yeh Classical/Renessance europe, not just Italy (plus there wasent an italy till 1861 anyway, it was City states like Millan, Venice, Napals, Papal states and the like).

[Octavulg]

I personally disagree on the whole vampyrism ideal. The primitive and admittedly, superstitious people (non-Imperial Guard personnel) of the Imperium barely know what an Astartes is, let alone a vampyre as we do. The usage of blood in transfusions is for the work on slowing and/or working on a cure for their Flaw, and even the thirst is not so much a vampyre needing blood to live, it's just a horrendous and tragic insanity. I don't think that qualifies as a vampyre. We don't go around calling the Red Cross people vamps, just for working with blood, do we? This is just my opinion, they could very well be power armored Dracula's disguised as Angels, but to me, they're just suffering from the Imperium's ever constant fear of anything not an ordinary human.

 

Ordinary people tranformed into beautiful creatures who are perfect in all physical ways, but have ravening beasts lurking within?

 

That's vampires. Plus, there's the way the BA IA mentions people drained of blood on worlds the BA have been garrisoned on. And the way they sleep in their original sarcophagai. And the way they live a ridiculously long time. And, of course, the whole thing with blood.

 

Saying the BA are only vampires is arguable. Saying they're not vampires is incorrect. :huh:

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To me they are definitely vampires.

[Brother Nathan]

they arnt definately vampires. the whole point is they have hints of vampriism, hints of greek (the armour) hints of italian, hints of angelism, hints of deamonism, hints of christanity, hints of gailicy stuff, etc. i can go on but come on. this is one of the best things about gw. they incorperate little bits of stories from what is real into their stories. all mixed up and twisted round. a good lie incorperates some form of truth. how many 40k characters names are actually names for devils an deamons? from historical adcurrent secret societys like the templars and icons even from stone masons etc. And all of that is added to the milkshak of hue men with super armour, super augumented, with cannons and tech beyond our dreams. i could go on but my point is, we dont just have elements of one historic period, or even mythical creature type. its a full and bloody cocktail...

[Gv0zD]

@ Brother nathan

 

But you can't agree with the fact that certain Space Marine Legions (and Chapters) have certain dominant traits taken from the real world. Some are more evident than others, however. While Space Wolves or White Scars have pretty evident traits, Raven Guard for example are quiet mysterious. Blood Angels IMO don't fully copy the mentioned Italian theme, but they certainly take a lot from it. Of course there are vampire-thing that is surely not Italian and Baal also hints to some other themes (Fallout is the first to come to mind).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Just having a rule named the Red Thirst says it all as far as I'm concerned.

 

0b :D

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

I agree on the italian/rennaissance theme being very strong besides the obvious (underlying) Vampire theme. But vampire in a very different way than we are used to, more the WoD Camarilla Vampires who want to be as human as possibly despite their base needs. Murderous killers in the form of Angels is the best way to describe them ("Yes, we are the true Angels of Death")

 

Just to add: To me, the Flesh Tearers have always been heavilly influenced by the Spartans. I always say: The Flesh Tearers are to the Blood Angels, as Sparta was to Athens.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Saying that they're exclusively vampires is silly.

They're Italian Renaissance-themed, with some touches of vampire.

[Kanis]

I personally disagree on the whole vampyrism ideal. The primitive and admittedly, superstitious people (non-Imperial Guard personnel) of the Imperium barely know what an Astartes is, let alone a vampyre as we do. The usage of blood in transfusions is for the work on slowing and/or working on a cure for their Flaw, and even the thirst is not so much a vampyre needing blood to live, it's just a horrendous and tragic insanity. I don't think that qualifies as a vampyre. We don't go around calling the Red Cross people vamps, just for working with blood, do we? This is just my opinion, they could very well be power armored Dracula's disguised as Angels, but to me, they're just suffering from the Imperium's ever constant fear of anything not an ordinary human.

 

Ordinary people tranformed into beautiful creatures who are perfect in all physical ways, but have ravening beasts lurking within?

 

That's vampires. Plus, there's the way the BA IA mentions people drained of blood on worlds the BA have been garrisoned on. And the way they sleep in their original sarcophagai. And the way they live a ridiculously long time. And, of course, the whole thing with blood.

 

Saying the BA are only vampires is arguable. Saying they're not vampires is incorrect. :D

 

No, it's not incorrect, simply a personal view of it, just as it's yours. That's the miracle of 40K, it's all theoretical sci-fi fun, you can't really claim what's right or wrong, when even the fluff changes from edition to edition. :)

 

There are many similarities between the Angels and vampires, but that's just it, similarities. They have vampiric traits and/or qualities, but nothing of their infamous weaknesses or culture, i.e. crossing running water, Holy artifacts, etc. I am by no means denying the Blood Angels could be vampires, there's too much fluff suggesting such to decline that, and in my previous post I admitted to such; but, it's also more an underlying, assumed theme, never truly confirmed nor denied they are vampires.

 

This kind of thing is very fascinating, and I mean not to derail the thread, but always remember, it's interpretation and opinion for each of us, not right and wrong.

[Quixus]

Of course there are vampire-thing that is surely not Italian and Baal also hints to some other themes (Fallout is the first to come to mind).

What does Baal have to do with Fallout, except that it is a volcanic wasteland?Ah got it now. The planet is a nuclear wasteland. Baal has been created before Fallout though, I think.

Baal reminds me of Baal. Some meanings fit better with the theme than others though.

[Gv0zD]

What does Baal have to do with Fallout, except that it is a volcanic wasteland?Ah got it now. The planet is a nuclear wasteland. Baal has been created before Fallout though, I think.

Right you are! However we now mostly associate the post-apocaliptic theme with Fallout series.

As for the planet's name, I too think of the demon called Baal, but it has little similarities with the planet's image. Judging by the given description, Baal (demon) doesn't seem to be so bad after all. What I like about the planet though is that of all the Space Marines' homeworlds Baal seems to be the one that is Earth's 'alternative fate'. It was a prospering and well-developed planet which was destroyed by its inhabitants... and it really reminds me of the nuclear threat we (in real world) still face, as our leaders strive to gain more political and military power. Has to stop myself from going offtop <_<

[Octavulg]

No, it's not incorrect, simply a personal view of it, just as it's yours. That's the miracle of 40K, it's all theoretical sci-fi fun, you can't really claim what's right or wrong, when even the fluff changes from edition to edition. smile.gif

 

There are many similarities between the Angels and vampires, but that's just it, similarities. They have vampiric traits and/or qualities, but nothing of their infamous weaknesses or culture, i.e. crossing running water, Holy artifacts, etc. I am by no means denying the Blood Angels could be vampires, there's too much fluff suggesting such to decline that, and in my previous post I admitted to such; but, it's also more an underlying, assumed theme, never truly confirmed nor denied they are vampires.

 

This kind of thing is very fascinating, and I mean not to derail the thread, but always remember, it's interpretation and opinion for each of us, not right and wrong.

 

See, since this is a discussion of "what sources were drawn on for the Blood Angels" not "how does the Imperium see the Blood Angels", I'd assumed you were talking about whether vampires were a source for the themes of the BA.

 

It is debatable whether the BA are vampires in universe, but vampires were definitely a source of inspiration for the BA.

[Hellios]

Vampires are also often connected to Italy :<... I'm not sure where that started but they are... Still I will always think of Romania with Vampires...