Blood angels descended from history

[Gv0zD]

But having traits like vampires dosent make them vampires. If someone dosent move much and has skin that looks like bark, does that make them a tree? Obviously not.

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

Mepheson, course hes mainly based on dracula. hes one guy though. and hes closer to being a primarch than anyone else whos still loyal and isnt one.

 

Could you please specify what makes Mephiston closer to being a primarch?  <_< I thought that the one who resembles Sanguinius is Corbulo. Or did I miss something? And there is one BA character that bears the "spirit" of Sanguinius and this character is Sanguinor.

 

I think the whole thing with BA resemblance to vampires was made less evident with the introduction of Sanguinor and Sang Guard, who definitely look like golden angels and not vampires. Even Astorath looks more like a dark angel (not the Chapter) than a vampire, although he is meant to "infuse" the Red Thirst in his battle-brothers. He also looks like Sanguinius as he was pictured in HH novels (marble-white skin, black hair).

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Mephiston resembles a Primarch in physical and mental power, not in character.

His way to defeat the Black Rage has opened up a power in him that makes him much more than a normal Astartes, more so than any non-Primarch Loyalist Astartes in the universe.

 

But, about Mephiston being the main 'Vampire' character in the Blood Angels. The current fluff around him completely goes around it and does focus more on a (un)holy power that awoke in him when he defeated the Rage. What that is, nobody is sure, but it is surely not uncontrolled bloodlust like it was in earlier editions.

 

This is also one of the ways 5th Edition stepped away from Blood Angels vampire fluff.

[NightrawenII]

But having traits like vampires dosent make them vampires.

Logical fallacy.

If something looks like duck and quack like duck, it's duck for sure. Right?

 

Disclaimer:

I'm not saying the BA are vampires only, but the vampire-theme is definitely here.

[ZONKEY]

but you can't beat itlain theme vampires, i am suprised those that awake when havign the upgrades implanted don't just turn into ghouls

[Brother Nathan]

no cause it can pretend to be a duck. why? to lure actual ducks into bolter range...lol. and yea i meant in strength, look at his stats he rivals abbadon whos blessedby the chaos gods to the point hes supposedly near the strength of a primarch... not that i dislike the vampirism, i quite like it, but to insist they are that and little else i cant stand.

it seems that all our characters have a hint of sanguinius about them, but its like a fractured jar, everyone gets a piece, but noone has the jar.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It always just cracks me up to see people getting upset that our chapter is vampires. :lol:

 

0b ;)

[vonny]

I've seen a lot of very strong reactions against the vampire theme, and having partaken of various vampire mythologies, I can quickly see why. Not all of them are as cool as they can be, be it from ravening monster with little thought left that can't cross running water and burns at the sight of a cross, via ugly blade and buffy-slain vampires, to sparkly emo-vampires.

 

However, Anne Rice has a few good books (and a good movie, interview with a vampire) that describe a different side of the vampire: that of a pained soul, a soul trying to get by despite the facts of life (or undeath), fighting every day to keep a hold on their humanity. White wolf does this very well in their fluff about vampires as well (as wel as making nice explanations about the sunlight, running water, crosses, and all that stuff). White wolf even has some vampires being of the belief that they are actually 'angels of death', theirs is a curse by god, and their task is to kill the sinners of medieval europe.

 

If there's one theme (apart from the renaissance theme, which I think is the main one) it's that the blood angels and their successors fight a battle every day to keep hold of their humanity instead of giving in to the black rage - a theme that's obvious from these latter sources of vampires too. So if you cringe at the word vampire, read some old white wolf rulebooks such as Vampire: the masquerade and Vampire: Dark ages. It's quite enlightening really, and might just change your oppinion on vampires

 

As for roman/greek stuff - I think that can be explained easily within the renaisance stuff. The renaisance clearly grasped back the knowledge and appreciation of art that had been during the classical roman/greek times, and I don't doubt that had they had space marines, they'd have clad their leaders in armors to match the gods of these classical themes. Like our sanguinary guard.

[Gv0zD]

If there's one theme (apart from the renaissance theme, which I think is the main one) it's that the blood angels and their successors fight a battle every day to keep hold of their humanity instead of giving in to the black rage - a theme that's obvious from these latter sources of vampires too. So if you cringe at the word vampire, read some old white wolf rulebooks such as Vampire: the masquerade and Vampire: Dark ages. It's quite enlightening really, and might just change your oppinion on vampires

 

As for roman/greek stuff - I think that can be explained easily within the renaisance stuff. The renaisance clearly grasped back the knowledge and appreciation of art that had been during the classical roman/greek times, and I don't doubt that had they had space marines, they'd have clad their leaders in armors to match the gods of these classical themes. Like our sanguinary guard.

You speak the truth! :)

I also think that the core of Blood Angels' spirit is fighting with the inner enemy (the Black Rage and the Red Thirst), however I used to think of it as of the daemonic influence, and not as of vampire-like theme. Now I know that this is because I have little knowldge of this White wolf (I am going to learn more about it).

[Knurd]

However, Anne Rice has a few good books (and a good movie, interview with a vampire) that describe a different side of the vampire: that of a pained soul, a soul trying to get by despite the facts of life (or undeath), fighting every day to keep a hold on their humanity. White wolf does this very well in their fluff about vampires as well (as wel as making nice explanations about the sunlight, running water, crosses, and all that stuff). White wolf even has some vampires being of the belief that they are actually 'angels of death', theirs is a curse by god, and their task is to kill the sinners of medieval europe.

 

If there's one theme (apart from the renaissance theme, which I think is the main one) it's that the blood angels and their successors fight a battle every day to keep hold of their humanity instead of giving in to the black rage - a theme that's obvious from these latter sources of vampires too. So if you cringe at the word vampire, read some old white wolf rulebooks such as Vampire: the masquerade and Vampire: Dark ages. It's quite enlightening really, and might just change your oppinion on vampires

 

As for roman/greek stuff - I think that can be explained easily within the renaisance stuff. The renaisance clearly grasped back the knowledge and appreciation of art that had been during the classical roman/greek times, and I don't doubt that had they had space marines, they'd have clad their leaders in armors to match the gods of these classical themes. Like our sanguinary guard.

I have read the first four Anne Rice books and I like her interpretation of vampires. I got more into vampires once I started reading White Wolf's Vampire: Dark Ages.

 

To stay on topic... the BAs might not be vampires but they do have vampiric qualities.

[shatter]

White Wolf, like GW lifted a lot of Rice's stuff.

 

Anne Rice; Interview With The Vampire, 1976, The Vampire Lestat, 1985, Queen Of The Damned 1988.

 

White Wolf; Vampire:The Masquerade, 1991.

 

White wolf even has some vampires being of the belief that they are actually 'angels of death', theirs is a curse by god, and their task is to kill the sinners of medieval europe.

 

In Rice's books, a faction of vampires residing in Paris had this attitude. They wouldn't enter churches nor predate upon the pious for fear of being destroyed by the power of God. (1976, 1985) They practiced 'the masquerade' by another name. They lived in crypts with the rats, like any good White Wolf Nosferatu should. Lestat changed all that... crazy bugger.

 

Rice was the ultimate trendsetter in the modern vampire mythos.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It always just cracks me up to see people getting upset that our chapter is vampires. :D

 

0b :)

 

Especially after Deathknight's check-mate post. Zzing!

I think the vampire bits are cool.

[fivepointedstar]

thanks Marshal Wilhelm I always knew that book would come in a time of dire need.

 

Personally, and honestly Vampires are cool what's not to like about long life, strength, sexual power, and the lust for the simple pleasures of life. (not all that stuff belongs in the world of Slannesh). Our Army's all have unique characteristics like Norse; wolves, knight; crusaders, dark; secrets. And not all vampiric things are emo. emo was long after the thought of vampires. emo kids wear black because there to sad ad depressed to listen to death metal and wear spiked collars. If not for the Vampire theme would the Blood Angels have grown so popular threw out the past decade. More so recently has this "twilight comparison" began to bash a new codex because a few things are changed, and overpowering, but what codex that is recent does not have the hidden formula to but together a devastating list.

[fivepointedstar]

not to dual reply with out a retort, but reading back some about the death company brought to mind the underground crypts, and masquerade parties in Italy.being laid in black armor, and skull bones, bears the resemblance for the dead man walking ( or running if you prefer) but being in the same realm of citadel on person and this i just a theory that said "well were making a vampire Space Marine army why not have the undead?" But since skeletons, zombies, and the lot are for Nurgle why not make dead men walking. Hence the birth of death co. remember that just a theory I've got no hard data to quote from that but after reading threw the thread that the revelation I got.

 

edited because of double post, and I never caught it. opps.

[Spacefrisian]

The topic title asks for an historical army, and Vampires arent on of those. If you do stick to the blood drinking theme than Spartans are the ones to go for (Black soup has blood in it)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The topic title asks for an historical army, and Vampires arent on of those. If you do stick to the blood drinking theme than Spartans are the ones to go for (Black soup has blood in it)

ok mr.literal.

he may have asked for the 'historical' army, but there is no historical army that the blood angels were based off of, there was a real culture that they're based off of, but no specific army.

 

now by asking this question i'm sure the OP was just looking for an answer to the question that might better be worded as 'what real world themes were used to inspire the blood angels?'

[Gv0zD]

The topic title asks for an historical army, and Vampires arent on of those. If you do stick to the blood drinking theme than Spartans are the ones to go for (Black soup has blood in it)

ok mr.literal.

he may have asked for the 'historical' army, but there is no historical army that the blood angels were based off of, there was a real culture that they're based off of, but no specific army.

 

now by asking this question i'm sure the OP was just looking for an answer to the question that might better be worded as 'what real world themes were used to inspire the blood angels?'

Inquisitor speaks the right things!  :P

 

By taking "the historical army" literally isn't a good thing. There were different armies even within the same cultures, which depended on the personalities of the states' leaders and certain armies' HQs. Also "an army" means more an organizational structure, certain tactics and certain equipment. Which I think is a bit wrong... Every 40k player chooses his/her own tactics, equipment and army composition. While playing BA I might say "I choose contemporary US army as inspiration" and use mech list and heavy support. Or I might say "I choose Soviet Red Army" and hence I'll take footslogging troops and throw them all into battle not caring for casualties.

 

And as Inquisitor already said, by saying "culture" we choose the right way as we discuss the "spirit" of BA, what defines their aesthetics, background and everything else that makes them so unique and beloved by us  :)

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

To answer the 'what army are BA inspired by' question, I'll quote myself on the page before:

 

Well, almost every Medieval army used cavalry as line-breaking unit and were heavily dependent on it. Actually the one historical army that did not use cav so much were the English (who preferred bowmen). Speaking of Italians, I remember them having Broken Lances in Medieval 2: Total War.

 

Agreed, line breaking cavalry indeed points to many medieval armies. But if we follow that train of thought, how about Alexander the Great and his ancient armies? He was well known to win wars with tactics concerning: quick redeployment, large scale feints and hard, outflanking, cavalry charges. Tactics that modern generals try to emulate on a larger scale on many occassions.

 

That sounds a lot like the tactics of the Blood Angels on a 40k scale to me. Quick redeployment via fast transports, large scale feints being done with large number of Deep Striking troops, and hard, outflanking Baals charging in is one :) of a linebreaker in my eyes. This also points to the overarching theme of Blood Angels as ancient Greek (or the Rennaissance view of ancient Greece)

 

I really do believe that the attack style of the BA, more than other armies, is inspired by Alexander the Great. Following general tactics of the time, which the BA do because they do follow the Codex Astartes mostly. But, also having a strong specialization for swift, outflanking attacks to surprise and overwhelm the enemy who thought your main force was their main enemy. The Blood Angels have that as well, in the form of their Deepstriking and Outflanking units.

 

Also, Alexander the Great is one of the greatest Greek commanders of history, so the Renaissance link is also a pretty good one.. seeing the empire of Alexander and others were the greatest inspiration of Renaissance generals.

[Gv0zD]

Following general tactics of the time, which the BA do because they do follow the Codex Astartes mostly. But, also having a strong specialization for swift, outflanking attacks to surprise and overwhelm the enemy who thought your main force was their main enemy. 

Sounds more like a mix of White Scars and Alpha Legion to me  :P

 

However I do think you are right. IMHO 40k warfare can hardly be compared to contemporary one, as modern soldiers do rarely engage in massive HtH fights. And the comparing it to the ancient or medieval ones is the right way to go. Of all the famous generals known to me I do think that Alexander's tactics is best be suited for BA, so it is a good find, Brother-Captian!  :)

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Following general tactics of the time, which the BA do because they do follow the Codex Astartes mostly. But, also having a strong specialization for swift, outflanking attacks to surprise and overwhelm the enemy who thought your main force was their main enemy. 

Sounds more like a mix of White Scars and Alpha Legion to me  :lol:

 

Hah.. alright, thanks for agreeing with me! But let me describe it differently.. The surprise part is not used just to be sneaky.. it is used to be swift and decisive. Alexander did not like long, dragged on battles. He was known for surveying the surroundings, setting up his armies, and deciding a battle within the first few moments of it.. in times when battles usually raged for days. Reading the enemy and deciding where is the best place to strike.

 

This is not well shown on the tabletop, because of the smaller scale of battles. But on a War Scale (even bigger than Apocalypse) it would be the Blood Angel style to do the same. Find the target that can decide the battle in one blow, then let your enemy think you are preparing for a long battle, while in fact you are putting your hardest, fastest and most elite forces on that one surprise objective.

[shatter]

There have been lots of elite forces that had the "I'm dead already" motto. Pretty much every main culture throughout recorded history. But having the motto, even believing it, isn't quite the same as being clinically insane and seeing one's death over and over... no matter what the wife's like.

 

Trying to fit BA into history's armies is easy... and a little pointless I think. I don't think they were modeled after an earthly army and it's style at all. The Angelic Legions of God... maybe. But it's just an aesthetic, as we've never seen them actually fight. Well, I haven't, but maybe that's just the atheism talking.

 

I mean honestly, what army in history used jump packs or their analog? Paratroopers? Closest would then be SAS etc, surely.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The topic title asks for an historical army, and Vampires arent on of those. If you do stick to the blood drinking theme than Spartans are the ones to go for (Black soup has blood in it)

ok mr.literal.

he may have asked for the 'historical' army, but there is no historical army that the blood angels were based off of, there was a real culture that they're based off of, but no specific army.

 

now by asking this question i'm sure the OP was just looking for an answer to the question that might better be worded as 'what real world themes were used to inspire the blood angels?'

Inquisitor speaks the right things!  :tu:

 

By taking "the historical army" literally isn't a good thing. There were different armies even within the same cultures, which depended on the personalities of the states' leaders and certain armies' HQs. Also "an army" means more an organizational structure, certain tactics and certain equipment. Which I think is a bit wrong... Every 40k player chooses his/her own tactics, equipment and army composition. While playing BA I might say "I choose contemporary US army as inspiration" and use mech list and heavy support. Or I might say "I choose Soviet Red Army" and hence I'll take footslogging troops and throw them all into battle not caring for casualties.

 

And as Inquisitor already said, by saying "culture" we choose the right way as we discuss the "spirit" of BA, what defines their aesthetics, background and everything else that makes them so unique and beloved by us  :D

thanks for agreeing.

 

but of course i'm right, i'm an inquisitor i'm always right, who would tell me i'm wrong?

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

but of course i'm right, i'm an inquisitor i'm always right, who would tell me i'm wrong?

 

A Space Marine Captain would.. and possibly kill you too to make sure you don't go crying to mommy (aka, High Lords of Terra) :-P

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

but of course i'm right, i'm an inquisitor i'm always right, who would tell me i'm wrong?

 

A Space Marine Captain would.. and possibly kill you too to make sure you don't go crying to mommy (aka, High Lords of Terra) :-P

lol, a chapter master maybe, but no way your regular battle brother or even a captain could get away with it.

 

and to the guy who said the Thirst was a battlelust and not a bloodlust, look under the special rule's entry in the new 'dex where it specifically states it as bloodlust, and anyone who thinks that the vampire theme is only just marginally relevant take a look at page 95 of codex Angels of Death. (i can't believe that pic wasn't put in the new 'dex...honestly that pic is probably the single most epic piece of marine artwork around)

 

edit

found the pic online.

mephiston's entry if you would

http://www.exlibrismortis.org/exlibrisnewB...ry_Leaders.html

[Gv0zD]

but of course i'm right, i'm an inquisitor i'm always right, who would tell me i'm wrong?

 

A Space Marine Captain would.. and possibly kill you too to make sure you don't go crying to mommy (aka, High Lords of Terra) :-P

lol, a chapter master maybe, but no way your regular battle brother or even a captain could get away with it.

 

and to the guy who said the Thirst was a battlelust and not a bloodlust, look under the special rule's entry in the new 'dex where it specifically states it as bloodlust, and anyone who thinks that the vampire theme is only just marginally relevant take a look at page 95 of codex Angels of Death. (i can't believe that pic wasn't put in the new 'dex...honestly that pic is probably the single most epic piece of marine artwork around)

 

edit

found the pic online.

mephiston's entry if you would

http://www.exlibrismortis.org/exlibrisnewB...ry_Leaders.html

 

Err.... that guy seems to be me :blush: Somehow I was under the impression that 'bloodlust' meant 'a desire for bloodshed', or simple increased aggressiveness... But I'm OK with it now. After message posted by vonny regarding Vampire: the Masquerade I spent some time reading its fluff and I have to say I liked that description of vampires and vampirism. Now I accept BA vampirism. :P  

 

Just as other members already said 'vampirism is just a part of BA aesthetics' and not the major and defining trait.  

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

but of course i'm right, i'm an inquisitor i'm always right, who would tell me i'm wrong?

 

A Space Marine Captain would.. and possibly kill you too to make sure you don't go crying to mommy (aka, High Lords of Terra) :-P

lol, a chapter master maybe, but no way your regular battle brother or even a captain could get away with it.

 

and to the guy who said the Thirst was a battlelust and not a bloodlust, look under the special rule's entry in the new 'dex where it specifically states it as bloodlust, and anyone who thinks that the vampire theme is only just marginally relevant take a look at page 95 of codex Angels of Death. (i can't believe that pic wasn't put in the new 'dex...honestly that pic is probably the single most epic piece of marine artwork around)

 

edit

found the pic online.

mephiston's entry if you would

http://www.exlibrismortis.org/exlibrisnewB...ry_Leaders.html

 

Err.... that guy seems to be me <_< Somehow I was under the impression that 'bloodlust' meant 'a desire for bloodshed', or simple increased aggressiveness... But I'm OK with it now. After message posted by vonny regarding Vampire: the Masquerade I spent some time reading its fluff and I have to say I liked that description of vampires and vampirism. Now I accept BA vampirism. ;)  

 

Just as other members already said 'vampirism is just a part of BA aesthetics' and not the major and defining trait.  

lol that's good, as long as i never see a fluff pic that resembles robert pattison in any matter i'll be happy.