Blood angels descended from history

[MadGreek]

OK,

 

I'm not really a 40K player. I plan on it, eventually, but right now, no. I do have A LOT of Marine models. I like to collect them. I asked my friends about a good "Assault" themed army as I was not satisfied with the generic Codex:Space Marines. They suggested Blood Angels. I had never read any fluff on them.

 

I read the codex and thought "Huh, Space Marine Vampires." After reasearching the fluff I have concluded- Vampires. Whats more, I think it is painfuly clear that GW, in there infinite wisdom, intends for the Blood Angels to be of Vampiric descent.

 

Two very quick movie tie-ins that I see right away -

 

1. From "Lostboys," and some myths, one way to become a Vampire is through the drinking of the Vampires blood. How do Blood Angels become Blood Angels - Insanguination - or - injecting the blood of the Primarch. And DRINKING blood of the priests is how new priests are made. Hmmm.

 

2. I know everyone has seen the model for Astorath - now Google pictures from the movie Bram Stokers Dracula. Same armor. Coincidence?

 

They have fangs.

 

From the Codex - they sleep in sarcophogi, they thirst for blood, and the discussion of the Red Thirst speaks for itself. Does the Codex say they are vampires - No! Does the Codex "Say" they are vampires - Yes!

 

Vampires akin to the "Interview with a Vampire" or even the "Underworld" series vamps. Beautiful, cultured, enjoying the finer things in life, not preying on humans. Mix in a little "Blade" and "Angel," (from the movie and series, respectively, of the same names.) Tortured souls, protecting humanity from evil. Fighting to control the baser instincts that war within them. The Death Company - lost that battle.

 

The Renaissance thing? I see that clearly, now that others have pointed it out for me. :lol: Still fits the Vampire theme. I say theme becuase thats what the vampire thing is, a THEME. An underlying "unifying or dominant idea, motif, etc." It is there to highlight (esp with a successor chapter) or downplay. I am not a vampire fan. My DIY chapter downplays that aspect greatly. Still there though.

 

As for this comment -

 

(Spacefrisian @ Nov 23 2010, 01:49 AM)

The topic title asks for an historical army, and Vampires arent on of those. If you do stick to the blood drinking theme than Spartans are the ones to go for (Black soup has blood in it)

 

Google blood in food. By your logic they could be a military force from ANYWHERE in the world, from Africa to Scandinavia, to Scotland. Many cultures put blood IN food, vampires crave blood itself - generally AS food, or a lifegiving essence. Don't get me wrong. I like the Spartan theme. Im Greek. My DIY chapter is Greek themed. You argument was just nonsence and I had to comment.

 

The question was poorly worded, the Blood Angels don't fit a historical army,but they definately draw from history as pointed out ad-nauseum in this topic. And vampires are DEFINATELY part of that "Fluff."

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

OK,

 

I'm not really a 40K player. I plan on it, eventually, but right now, no. I do have A LOT of Marine models. I like to collect them. I asked my friends about a good "Assault" themed army as I was not satisfied with the generic Codex:Space Marines. They suggested Blood Angels. I had never read any fluff on them.

 

I read the codex and thought "Huh, Space Marine Vampires." After reasearching the fluff I have concluded- Vampires. Whats more, I think it is painfuly clear that GW, in there infinite wisdom, intends for the Blood Angels to be of Vampiric descent.

 

Two very quick movie tie-ins that I see right away -

 

1. From "Lostboys," and some myths, one way to become a Vampire is through the drinking of the Vampires blood. How do Blood Angels become Blood Angels - Insanguination - or - injecting the blood of the Primarch. And DRINKING blood of the priests is how new priests are made. Hmmm.

 

2. I know everyone has seen the model for Astorath - now Google pictures from the movie Bram Stokers Dracula. Same armor. Coincidence?

 

They have fangs.

 

From the Codex - they sleep in sarcophogi, they thirst for blood, and the discussion of the Red Thirst speaks for itself. Does the Codex say they are vampires - No! Does the Codex "Say" they are vampires - Yes!

 

Vampires akin to the "Interview with a Vampire" or even the "Underworld" series vamps. Beautiful, cultured, enjoying the finer things in life, not preying on humans. Mix in a little "Blade" and "Angel," (from the movie and series, respectively, of the same names.) Tortured souls, protecting humanity from evil. Fighting to control the baser instincts that war within them. The Death Company - lost that battle.

 

The Renaissance thing? I see that clearly, now that others have pointed it out for me. ;) Still fits the Vampire theme. I say theme becuase thats what the vampire thing is, a THEME. An underlying "unifying or dominant idea, motif, etc." It is there to highlight (esp with a successor chapter) or downplay. I am not a vampire fan. My DIY chapter downplays that aspect greatly. Still there though.

 

As for this comment -

 

(Spacefrisian @ Nov 23 2010, 01:49 AM)

The topic title asks for an historical army, and Vampires arent on of those. If you do stick to the blood drinking theme than Spartans are the ones to go for (Black soup has blood in it)

 

Google blood in food. By your logic they could be a military force from ANYWHERE in the world, from Africa to Scandinavia, to Scotland. Many cultures put blood IN food, vampires crave blood itself - generally AS food, or a lifegiving essence. Don't get me wrong. I like the Spartan theme. Im Greek. My DIY chapter is Greek themed. You argument was just nonsence and I had to comment.

 

The question was poorly worded, the Blood Angels don't fit a historical army,but they definately draw from history as pointed out ad-nauseum in this topic. And vampires are DEFINATELY part of that "Fluff."

about astorath i see that model as a winged rip-off of mephiston just to make more money, not to mention i don't think stoker's dracula wore armor, every picture of him i've seen he was in the era's version of a tux, and i have never read the full story, but when i was in elementary i did read a 'cut up' version of it and he seemed to be just as refined as the Blood Angels, maybe not a huge art buff, but still refined, and again always in a tux never armour.

http://www.collider.com/2010/08/18/sam-wor...ro-alex-proyas/

[shatter]

He meant the movie: Bram Stoker's Dracula, 1992. The armour Gary Oldman wore as Vlad the Impaler when fighting Turks was grooved and red, similar to Astorath's. I don't think one's a copy of the other as such... but I certainly felt reminded of the movie when I saw Astorath the first time.

 

Here's a link to a B&W picture of him. Curtesy of IMDb

 

Astorath via Lexicanum wiki

 

edit:

 

Another significant source of modern vampire lore would have to be the vampire books of Brian Lumley. Starting with Necroscope, 1986.

His vampires originate from a separate world that had a natural gateway to ours... a gateway that's existed for a very long time... somewhere in the Carpathian mountains. His vampires are a little different. They're caused by an infection of a symbiotic creature coined a leech. These leeches start out like an amoeba or slime mold in the blood that serves the flesh by healing and strengthening it. The stronger the flesh, the greater the infection augments it. Eventually, but not in every case, the infection can spawn the development of a true leech that resides in the spinal column and the base of the brain. At this stage, one is well and truly buggered and is generally a puppet for the drives and hungers of the leech. In battle, vampire lords would prize the blood of an enemies leech above all things.

 

This is where I draw the line with all vampires and Blood Angels. Blood Angels don't have any kind of nasty infection, nor are they damned by God and favored by the Devil. They're shadowed and haunted by the pain of betrayal and righteous rage of an honest-to-Emperor Angel.

Sooo many similarities and behavioral consequences thereof, but no curse of vampirism. They hunger for Blood, but not because they seek to drink the blood of humans to sustain themselves but because the connection from insanguination compels them to find focus on the visions and this drive almost always gets them in the end. For BA, the blood is not the life... which is the true downside of the popular culture vampire mythology. Perhaps they are driven to drink the blood of foes to taste the despair in them, thus gaining some satisfaction in retribution well executed... but this is a space marine ability merely driven by a psychological need to find resolution. In short, if BA are true vampires, then so are all space marines. The other marines are simply not driven to do it so thoroughly.

 

The blood is the life vs the blood is the satisfaction of a job well done.

 

*chuckle*

 

*shrug*

[MadGreek]

Shatter,

 

Agreed, not an infection akin to vampirism, but a flaw in the gene seed, and a craving to SPILL blood in a rightous (sp) cause.

 

Thanks for posting the picture for Inquisitor_Lensoven, I still ave not mastered the whole picture posting thing very well.

 

Inquisitor_Lensoven, google more pictures real quick. In the movie the armor is red as well. VERY similar (though not EXACT) to Astorath. It seems to have been at least a subliminal influence on the designer, if not a direct inspiration.

[Gv0zD]

Yes, that's a good find! Here are more images of Dracula's armor, now in full color. I last watched the film about 10 or 15 years ago, and I totally forgot about it. Now I can see how Astorath's armor resembles the Dracula's one. However, Mephiston's armor is also made in the same style. Although he has robe and cape that cover most of it, the breastplate is exactly the same.

 

I re-read the Index Astartes: Blood Angels and and found the description of Exsanguination as of "process of transforming a scavenger into a tall, proud and handsome warrior", which somehow reminds of turning 'weak' people into immortal and powerful vampires.

 

So there are hints of BA vampirism almost everywhere. And it only increases my respect for GW designers, for they didn't use the most common and wild-spread concept of vampirism but dug deeper and chose the most elegant ones.

[MadGreek]

Thats all I am saying. They may not turn into bats, hate garlic, and burn in sunlight, but the tie in to vampirism is there, subtley and overtly. I think it is beyond argument. Now, how much you choose to downplay, or highlight, that fact, especially in a DIY chapter, is on you.

[shatter]

Youtube's BSD prologue. Pretty much all the footage of the armour.

[Julius Firefocht]

Vampires are a theme present in the design of the Blood Angels, but I think GW seems to be pushing more for the angelic side of things these days. We have abilities like the Descent of Angels, we are referred to as the Angelic Host, and our codex describes our tendency to attain mastery of the heavens above a battlefield. And of course, there is our Sanguinary Guard unit, which is practically a mechanical rendition of avenging angels. You don't see the Dark Angels getting this sort of divine treatment, do you?

 

Of course, it helps that our Primarch is an angel himself. :tu:

[Ranwulf]

Blood Angels are a mix of...

 

Vampires and Italian.

 

Why?

 

Red Thirst, living far more than other space marines, sarcophagi...

 

Catholic inspiration, two Jesus characters(Sanguinius died for your sins!/ Mephiston was reborn to beat the hell out of people), great love for art(seriously Leonardo da Vinci, Raphael?), and seriously, if you don't see angels in some form of art in Italy, then you are probably not in there...

 

Ran

[twistinthunder]

definitely the renaissance era (14th to 17th century) which had lots of war and death (black death) (2 main bad things about the period, there are also 2 main bad things about blood angels) but is mostly known for the art (artificer armour and such).

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

He meant the movie: Bram Stoker's Dracula, 1992. The armour Gary Oldman wore as Vlad the Impaler when fighting Turks was grooved and red, similar to Astorath's. I don't think one's a copy of the other as such... but I certainly felt reminded of the movie when I saw Astorath the first time.

 

Here's a link to a B&W picture of him. Curtesy of IMDb

 

Astorath via Lexicanum wiki

 

edit:

 

Another significant source of modern vampire lore would have to be the vampire books of Brian Lumley. Starting with Necroscope, 1986.

His vampires originate from a separate world that had a natural gateway to ours... a gateway that's existed for a very long time... somewhere in the Carpathian mountains. His vampires are a little different. They're caused by an infection of a symbiotic creature coined a leech. These leeches start out like an amoeba or slime mold in the blood that serves the flesh by healing and strengthening it. The stronger the flesh, the greater the infection augments it. Eventually, but not in every case, the infection can spawn the development of a true leech that resides in the spinal column and the base of the brain. At this stage, one is well and truly buggered and is generally a puppet for the drives and hungers of the leech. In battle, vampire lords would prize the blood of an enemies leech above all things.

 

This is where I draw the line with all vampires and Blood Angels. Blood Angels don't have any kind of nasty infection, nor are they damned by God and favored by the Devil. They're shadowed and haunted by the pain of betrayal and righteous rage of an honest-to-Emperor Angel.

Sooo many similarities and behavioral consequences thereof, but no curse of vampirism. They hunger for Blood, but not because they seek to drink the blood of humans to sustain themselves but because the connection from insanguination compels them to find focus on the visions and this drive almost always gets them in the end. For BA, the blood is not the life... which is the true downside of the popular culture vampire mythology. Perhaps they are driven to drink the blood of foes to taste the despair in them, thus gaining some satisfaction in retribution well executed... but this is a space marine ability merely driven by a psychological need to find resolution. In short, if BA are true vampires, then so are all space marines. The other marines are simply not driven to do it so thoroughly.

 

The blood is the life vs the blood is the satisfaction of a job well done.

 

*chuckle*

 

*shrug*

never seen that movie version of dracula, but i still think that astorath's model and armour is just a lazy rip off of mephiston's, and possibly an attempt to give us a model to use as a more dynamic mephiston (that's how i see astorath any way)

 

Vampires are a theme present in the design of the Blood Angels, but I think GW seems to be pushing more for the angelic side of things these days. We have abilities like the Descent of Angels, we are referred to as the Angelic Host, and our codex describes our tendency to attain mastery of the heavens above a battlefield. And of course, there is our Sanguinary Guard unit, which is practically a mechanical rendition of avenging angels. You don't see the Dark Angels getting this sort of divine treatment, do you?

 

Of course, it helps that our Primarch is an angel himself. :P

 

well i'd have to say that the vampire theme is mostly seen in the curse and the BA's darker side, so the chapter itself probably wouldn't want to play that up, as for the flying most if not all vampire stories i've heard say that vampires can fly, and again the vampire thing is supposed to be subtle so i doubt we'd be called 'the vampire legion' the angelic theme is supposed to be about as obvious as the vampire theme is subtle.