How to equip your tried and true CSM squads

[BDS]

After reading "which chaos unit most fun to use" I was surprised many mentioned plain CSM squads.

 

It begged the question, how are people running their tried and true CSM squads. I have not used them in awhile, preferring the fearless cult troops.

 

I have a tournament coming up and wanted to try some different things (at least lately), giving a return look at the simple CSM squad looks like a good idea.

 

In the past I mostly ran them on foot with 12 men auto cannon or heavy boletr and melta with fist....but that was when you could pay a point and infiltrate them.

 

What has been the best load outs for others in 5th?

 

10 CSM, 2 melta guns, fist, Icon of chaos glory, rhino? Do you like Icons? What about heavy wpns...seems logical to me to give them a ranged componenet; especially if you do not own 4 or mor oblits.

 

Thanks,

 

BDS

[Shas'o R'Vre]

My tried and tested setups are:

 

10 guys, 2x Melta, Fistychamp, Icon, Rhino

 

10 guys, 2x Plasma, Optional Fistychamp, Optional Icon, Optional Rhino

 

10 guys, Plasmagun and Autocannon, Optional Fistychamp, Optional Icon

[Pigeons]

i go 10 with two flamers, led by an aspiring champ with a combi-flamer, power weapon and icon of chaos glory, mounted in a rhino with extra armor and a pintle-mounted combi-flamer.

 

 

 

i...i like flame <.<

[Shas'o R'Vre]

pintle-mounted combi-flamer.

I tend to find these are wasted, as you lose quite a bit of your template hitting your own vehicle, plus the 1" away requirement, that loses you a good 1.75" of template, if not more.

[Requiemnex]

10 Chaos Marines

2 Melta Guns

Aspiring Champ w/ Power Fist and Combi Melta

Icon of Chaos Glory

Rhino

 

10 Chaos Marines

2 Plasma Guns

Aspiring Champ w/ Combi Plasma

Icon of Chaos Glory

Rhino w/ havoc launcher

[Pigeons]

pintle-mounted combi-flamer.

I tend to find these are wasted, as you lose quite a bit of your template hitting your own vehicle, plus the 1" away requirement, that loses you a good 1.75" of template, if not more.

 

 

 

yeah that's true. for me it's all theoretical as i haven't played a game with the army yet...so it's probably something i'd lose after a game or two when i realize it's ineffective haha

[A D-B]

i go 10 with two flamers, led by an aspiring champ with a combi-flamer, power weapon and icon of chaos glory, mounted in a rhino with extra armor and a pintle-mounted combi-flamer.

 

That's awesome. I wanna give that a shot.

[Pigeons]

i go 10 with two flamers, led by an aspiring champ with a combi-flamer, power weapon and icon of chaos glory, mounted in a rhino with extra armor and a pintle-mounted combi-flamer.

 

That's awesome. I wanna give that a shot.

 

 

 

if nothing else, it looks really cool.

[minigun762]

At the moment I have 5 squads

 

2 = 2x Melta/Fist/IoCG/Rhino

2 = 2x Plasma/IoCG/Rhino

1 = 2x Flamer/Fist/IoCG/Rhino

 

With the Flamer squad, I am tempted to drop the Power Fist for a Power Weapon/Combi-Flamer combo and make it just go after infantry units.

 

I don't like the heavy weapon in the squad because 1) it makes it feel like an evil Tactical squad instead of CSMs and 2) the static nature of the weapon doesn't mesh well with my playstyle and 3) I use the 2x Plasma squads to compensate for the lack of a heavy weapon with longer range.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I don't like the heavy weapon in the squad because 1) it makes it feel like an evil Tactical squad instead of CSMs and 2) the static nature of the weapon doesn't mesh well with my playstyle and 3) I use the 2x Plasma squads to compensate for the lack of a heavy weapon with longer range.

 

The other day I experimented with two CSM squads, each with a heavy weapon. I wanted to see if the real life concept of "bounding overwatch" could translate to the table, moving only one squad per turn and using the other to shoot a heavy weapon. So what I had was two squads of CSM, each with a Lascannon, and a Daemon Prince for an HQ. Fighting a Space Wolf all-Terminator list it worked OK; the DP flanked the SW and assassinated his HQ and also half his Terminators when they rushed in to help. The Lascannon fire was not as effective as I would have liked it to have been, and what I ended up with was one squad of CSM being in range of his remaining Terminators who were moving in to assault, and the other one being wide out and only able to take potshots with the Lascannon, leaving a bunch of Bolters not really doing anything. The upshot is that I drowned the remaining Terminators in a rain of rapid firing Boltgun death, tabling his army having lost only one regular CSM and all but the last wound on my DP.

 

What I took away from all of that is "heavy weapons belong in their own dedicated squad". I'm inclined to lean toward minigun762's assessment from here on out, giving my regular CSM either the Rapid Fire or Assault capable Special Weapons.

[Pigeons]

I don't like the heavy weapon in the squad because 1) it makes it feel like an evil Tactical squad instead of CSMs and 2) the static nature of the weapon doesn't mesh well with my playstyle and 3) I use the 2x Plasma squads to compensate for the lack of a heavy weapon with longer range.

 

The other day I experimented with two CSM squads, each with a heavy weapon. I wanted to see if the real life concept of "bounding overwatch" could translate to the table, moving only one squad per turn and using the other to shoot a heavy weapon. So what I had was two squads of CSM, each with a Lascannon, and a Daemon Prince for an HQ. Fighting a Space Wolf all-Terminator list it worked OK; the DP flanked the SW and assassinated his HQ and also half his Terminators when they rushed in to help. The Lascannon fire was not as effective as I would have liked it to have been, and what I ended up with was one squad of CSM being in range of his remaining Terminators who were moving in to assault, and the other one being wide out and only able to take potshots with the Lascannon, leaving a bunch of Bolters not really doing anything. The upshot is that I drowned the remaining Terminators in a rain of rapid firing Boltgun death, tabling his army having lost only one regular CSM and all but the last wound on my DP.

 

What I took away from all of that is "heavy weapons belong in their own dedicated squad". I'm inclined to lean toward minigun762's assessment from here on out, giving my regular CSM either the Rapid Fire or Assault capable Special Weapons.

 

 

 

this would have probably worked better with missile launchers instead of lascannons. or heck even autocannons.

[minigun762]

-Max-

 

I think thats an example of a real life tactic that doesn't translate to the tabletop due to the limitations/scope of the rules. The single biggest one for me is the time table. An average of 6 turns means you're only shooting 3 times per squad if you're leapfrogging. This is too little to have a real significant impact when we're talking about 1 heavy weapon per squad.

 

Pigeons

 

I agree that if I had to use a heavy weapon in a CSM squad, the Autocannon is the way to go. Its cheaper and more effective then the Lascannon against most transports plus it is a unique Chaos weapon, as far as being used by ground pounders.

[BDS]

-Max-

 

I think thats an example of a real life tactic that doesn't translate to the tabletop due to the limitations/scope of the rules. The single biggest one for me is the time table. An average of 6 turns means you're only shooting 3 times per squad if you're leapfrogging. This is too little to have a real significant impact when we're talking about 1 heavy weapon per squad.

 

Pigeons

 

I agree that if I had to use a heavy weapon in a CSM squad, the Autocannon is the way to go. Its cheaper and more effective then the Lascannon against most transports plus it is a unique Chaos weapon, as far as being used by ground pounders.

 

 

I agree here. When I have taken CSM squads with heavy weapons, I generally put in an Autocannon as it is unique to CSM.

 

Man I used to love the CSM Havocs with 4 autocannons and tank hunter....second only to my 4HB infiltrating havocs with tank hunter....ah well.

 

Back in the day you could make an 1850 CSM list with 81 marine Alpha Legion (infiltrating all around) list with just the box set...supplying all the HB and PG's you could need. Ran this at Adepticon and did well...ah well.

 

Sorry for the trip down memory lane.

 

Thanks for the replies so far, it is about as I suspected.

 

For this upcomming tournament I really wanted to go CSM heavy and was tooling around with the idea of all infantry as well. I know...not hugely competitive..but I am not hugely competive any more so ok.

 

Idea is to to not mimic Imperial Tacs, but take something a little different causing a few headaches for some, and have fun using the most of my painted models.

 

I like the following CSM squads thus far:

 

Rhino borne:

 

10, 2 melta, PF, Glory Icon, rhino

10, 2 plasmagun, pw with combi-flamer Asp champ (maybe melta bombs), Glory Icon, rhino with havoc launcher.

(reason for combi melta...as unit probably vulnerable to outflank or will be assaulted as this is an objective holder most likely)

 

10, PG, Auto cannon, Glory Icon, rhino with havoc launcher

 

No Rhino:

 

12, Icon, 2 Plasma gun

12, Icon, 2 melta, PF Asp Chmp

20, Icon of Khorne or slannesh, 2 melta gun, PF Asp chmp.....Fabius Bile upgrade (expensive...but unable to be ignored)

 

BDS

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

20, Icon of Khorne or slannesh, 2 melta gun, PF Asp chmp.....Fabius Bile upgrade (expensive...but unable to be ignored)

 

BDS

 

I run my Bile squads with Icons of Tzeentch, 2 meltaguns, PFist Champ, and the EW upgrade. If the roll goes well, it's like having a 10-man squad of Possessed, only with guns and one guy carrying their Invul Save. If I play them aggressive, they can kill tanks and infantry with relative ease, get into a shooting contest, have a lot of attacks on the assault at Str 5, are Fearless, can claim objectives, and can be used as a tarpit to block more expensive, power weapon-happy enemy Elites if necessary. It's not cheap, but it is cheaper than Possessed or Termies.

[Zeller]

10-15, Asp, PP, 2x PG, IoCG.

[Vissah]

I used to play 10 man, 2 melta, PF and Icon

 

Now I switched then over to 10 man, 2 flamers, PF and Icon wich I have to say is a way better role for them.

 

Both in Rhino ofcourse.

[Cpt. Postumus]

I have all but stopped using Cult Marines in my army in favor of the humble CSM. Massed troops are crucial in my local meta game and I find that my Death Guard themed lists usually performed poorly due to being so badly outnumbered, especially against some of the newer Codices.

 

I'm in the process of assembling my fourth unit of CSM (actually got the heads I ordered from Chapter House in the mail today), 32 regular Marines and X4 Melta gunners, X2 Plasma gunners, X2 Flamers.

 

My current builds are:

 

-X10 Marines, Sgt, X2 flamers, Icon of Khorne, Rhino led by an Unmarked Lord with a Demon Weapon

This build is all about weight of numbers: Two templates and LOTS of attacks. Makes a decent spear tip.

(@Pigeons: I've tried your build with great success, although my Lord was also packing a Combi Flamer. Four flame templates dropped on a unit of Grey Hunters wiped it off the board and the objective without the need to assault).

 

-X10 Marines, Sgt, X2 Melta guns, Icon of Slaanesh, Rhino. I have two of these escorting the above, great anti tank, great in an assault vs MEQ. Vs a hoard army I'd probably use the Icon of Khorne instead.

 

X10 Marines, Sgt (?), X2 Plasma Guns, Icon of Chaos Glory. These are meant to sit on my objective, castled in terrain with my Havoc Squad and or Obliterators nearby. The Icon is a little extra insurance to be sure they're not going anywhere. Having read this thread, I'm now considering finding the points for a Combi Plasma gun on the Sgt to increase the squad's MEQ slaying, rapid fire potential.

 

I haven't tried it yet, but a ten man squad with two Plasma Guns (Sgt with a Combi Plasma) and the Icon of Slaanesh might be worth it. Lots of Marine armies where I'm from (I guess you'll have that anywhere), move the squad up 12", pile out, Rapid Fire, receive the charge and generally go first, albeit with less attacks. This would probably be a better tactic vs Counter Attacking Space wolves than it would against something with Furious Charge.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Postumus

[the jeske]

-X10 Marines, Sgt, X2 flamers, Icon of Khorne, Rhino led by an Unmarked Lord with a Demon Weapon

illegal unit . 11 models dont fit in to a chaos rhino.

[The Shadowlord]

-X10 Marines, Sgt, X2 flamers, Icon of Khorne, Rhino led by an Unmarked Lord with a Demon Weapon

illegal unit . 11 models dont fit in to a chaos rhino.

 

Not an illegal unit in the sense of the phrase (it's all army list legal, AFAIK you can buy dedicated transports for squads too large to use them, like how people buy Razorbacks for 10-man Tac squads) but you'd need to take a casualty or dump the Lord if you wanted to hop into the Rhino.

[Legatus]

i go 10 with two flamers, led by an aspiring champ with a combi-flamer, power weapon and icon of chaos glory, mounted in a rhino with extra armor and a pintle-mounted combi-flamer.

Alternatively you could just use a squad of Havocs or Chosen with 4 flamers. Or you could go all out and add more flamers to those squads' champions or Rhinos.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

pintle-mounted combi-flamer.

I tend to find these are wasted, as you lose quite a bit of your template hitting your own vehicle, plus the 1" away requirement, that loses you a good 1.75" of template, if not more.

 

Tank-shock them, bunching them up worse than before. Sure you lose the 0.75" but you can counter the 1" bubble & you get to condense them. The best you can get from the situation.

[Cpt. Postumus]

-X10 Marines, Sgt, X2 flamers, Icon of Khorne, Rhino led by an Unmarked Lord with a Demon Weapon

illegal unit . 11 models dont fit in to a chaos rhino.

 

 

 

Good catch, that should have read x9 Marines and Lord.

 

 

Postumus

[the jeske]

still illegal cant have 2 special in a unit with 9 dudes . the codex astartes says you need to have a full squad to gain access to the armory.

 

Not an illegal unit in the sense of the phrase (it's all army list legal, AFAIK you can buy dedicated transports for squads too large to use them, like how people buy Razorbacks for 10-man Tac squads) but you'd need to take a casualty or dump the Lord if you wanted to hop into the Rhino.

I dont know what is worse playing with an illegal set up of a unit or playing with a set up with a hth only IC[that buffs the squads cost to ~400pts] and flamers and then slogg the said unit across the table ...

[The Shadowlord]

still illegal cant have 2 special in a unit with 9 dudes . the codex astartes says you need to have a full squad to gain access to the armory.

 

Not an illegal unit in the sense of the phrase (it's all army list legal, AFAIK you can buy dedicated transports for squads too large to use them, like how people buy Razorbacks for 10-man Tac squads) but you'd need to take a casualty or dump the Lord if you wanted to hop into the Rhino.

I dont know what is worse playing with an illegal set up of a unit or playing with a set up with a hth only IC[that buffs the squads cost to ~400pts] and flamers and then slogg the said unit across the table ...

 

Obviously playing with an illegal set-up is worse, as you're cheating; but it wasn't illegal, it was just extremely inneffective until you took a casualty or decided not to ride with the Lord...

[Cpt. Postumus]

still illegal cant have 2 special in a unit with 9 dudes . the codex astartes says you need to have a full squad to gain access to the armory.

 

Not an illegal unit in the sense of the phrase (it's all army list legal, AFAIK you can buy dedicated transports for squads too large to use them, like how people buy Razorbacks for 10-man Tac squads) but you'd need to take a casualty or dump the Lord if you wanted to hop into the Rhino.

I dont know what is worse playing with an illegal set up of a unit or playing with a set up with a hth only IC[that buffs the squads cost to ~400pts] and flamers and then slogg the said unit across the table ...

 

 

Thats my bad, I hadn't thought of it like that before, I always assumed that the Lord counted as the 10th Marine and wasn't trying to be cheaty. It kind of suck as the unit wasn't THAT over the top powerful, especially in comparison to all of the Space Wolves and Blood Angels (and I just found out today, soon to be one Grey Knights army).

 

No wonder everyone takes Demon Princes. <_<

 

 

Postumus