The Achilles

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

What would you use the Achilles for?

 

Me:

Squad of Sternguard w/ a libby

 

Drive it into melta range and next to cover, move the sternguard and libby into the cover and out of the vehicle, shoot up a tank or super assault unit and shoot the squad at another unit, then next turn have the Achilles go around and blow stuff up while the sternguard plus libby assault/kill something.

[spartan249]

I'd use it as the anchor for my firebase. It's got 60" range. I plan to use it.

[norngahl]

As FW stuff is counting more or less illegal on my local gaming tournaments, it´ll be fielded in friendly games or apocalypse.

 

Lets check it.

 

I has AV 14/14/14, immune to melta/lance special rule, -1 on the damage chart, 2 TL-MM and 1 TFC. It costs 300 points, has no assault ramp and can carry 6 models.

 

So it is very hard to destroy, mainly just trough strengh 10 and strengh 9 stuff. In most cases it won´t be destroyed unless your opponent really focusses everything he has onto it. Main thing is- destroy the TFC and the tank is much less scary. In my opinion, you can get this trough some effort. Of course a techmarine with servitors could be fitted into, but than the tank costs would explode to 400+ points.. for actually just repairing weapon systems and immobile results. If you throw Chronus in, you end up around 500 points but have a TFC and 2 TL MM that will always be busy.

 

Lets break it down- you can build this thing to be nigh invulnerable. In this case, it costs 500 points. It is as tough as a superheavy if not tougher. Sure it only has 1SP and not 3SP, but it equals because you are immune to lance/melta, -1 on chart means only destroyed by 6 (drop a kombimelta squad next to a baneblade and he is done), and he doesn´t suffer from the superheavy damage chart (which can inflict another damage result or explosion). So he is damn tough to kill, but to keep him working, you need to spend at least another 100 points for a techmarine.

 

So he is the SM superheavy. But what does he bring on the offensive? A TFC wit 4 small blast with S6 and AP5 and 2 TL MM. Relativly small amount on firepower, if you compare him to that baneblade, which has a 10" S9 AP2 pizza plate, a 5" S10 AP2 cannon, 2 lascannons and 3 TL-HB..

 

So yes, he is as tough as a SH, but he hasn´t nearly the same damage output. Compared to a real SH, his damage output is quite lousy.

 

For apocalypse, his weapons are quite contradictionary. MM mean you have to come close, TFC means you want to stay away out of range. So lets assume you keep him far away, staying out of most weapons range (lascannons and so on). Then he can only fire with his TFC, but not with his MM. So you have an vehicle of 400+ points, sitting in the back, blasting the enemy with 4 S6 AP5 plats a turn. IF the enemy may start a counter attack through flank march, you can support your lines with 2 TL-MM.

 

Now lets break it down.

 

For 400 points, you get a TFC that will stay intact because it stays out of most weapons range (has no cargo to deliver anyway) and because it is heavily armored.

 

For thise 400 points, I get 4 usual TFC that will throw 16 plates onto the enemy, keep working due to sitting in 3+ cover while staying out of range, and I get 4 fortified ruins instead of just 1. And, if a TFC gets destroyed, a techmarine that repairs my vehicles.

 

So for me, 4xTFC just knock down the Archilles in Apo in terms of efficiency.

[dswanick]

I has AV 14/14/14, immune to melta/lance special rule, -1 on the damage chart, 2 TL-MM and 1 TFC. It costs 300 points, has no assault ramp and can carry 6 models.

 

So it is very hard to destroy, mainly just trough strengh 10 and strengh 9 stuff. In most cases it won´t be destroyed unless your opponent really focusses everything he has onto it. Main thing is- destroy the TFC and the tank is much less scary. In my opinion, you can get this trough some effort. Of course a techmarine with servitors could be fitted into, but than the tank costs would explode to 400+ points.. for actually just repairing weapon systems and immobile results. If you throw Chronus in, you end up around 500 points but have a TFC and 2 TL MM that will always be busy.

 

Lets break it down- you can build this thing to be nigh invulnerable. In this case, it costs 500 points. It is as tough as a superheavy if not tougher. Sure it only has 1SP and not 3SP, but it equals because you are immune to lance/melta, -1 on chart means only destroyed by 6 (drop a kombimelta squad next to a baneblade and he is done), and he doesn´t suffer from the superheavy damage chart (which can inflict another damage result or explosion). So he is damn tough to kill, but to keep him working, you need to spend at least another 100 points for a techmarine.

 

So he is the SM superheavy.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. While an Achilles is tougher than even a regular Land Raider(no paper tiger in it's own right) against other non-Apoc units, it's not as tough or tougher than a super-heavy in an Apocalypse setting. Sure it has AV 14, but so does a rLR, a Leman Russ on the front, and a Baneblade/Shadowsword variant. It's immune to melta/lance special rules, but that doesn't help one bit against Str D. Nor does it's -1 on the damage chart, as the rule specifically states it doesn't reduce Str D penetration rolls. Thus it's still a regular vehicle which is going to be destroyed on a 4+ damamge roll, no different than the regular Land Raider. A Shodowsword is still going to kill it 50% of it's hits while it can kill a typical super-heavy with 3SP less than 1 % of the time, and a Warhound with Turbolaser will kill it 75% of its hits vs <2% of the time for a typical SH. While the Tunderfire cannon has decent Apocalyptic range it lacks the strength to even reliably drop void shields, the only real threat to a super-heavy is the 24" MM shots.

[norngahl]

Don´t make the mistake and compare the LRA to a ordinary SH just on the base of the vulnerability of strengh D weapons.. it´s the overall vulnerability that counts. Beein nearly immune to any deep striking /flanking melta weapons is a very great plus in apo IMO!

[Hellios]

Not immune to Haywire grenades are you! Take that you stupid tank!

 

Now people I challenge you to design a 1,500pt army to annoy DE and Eldar players... GO!

[The Wunup Kid]

Not immune to Haywire grenades are you! Take that you stupid tank!

 

Now people I challenge you to design a 1,500pt army to annoy DE and Eldar players... GO!

 

Off the top of my head?

 

Librarian, bare bones, with Null Zone and one other..

 

2 Tac squads (10) with Plasma Guns and MLs, in razorbacks with assault cannons

 

Scout squad (5) with melee weapons, power fist, in a LS Storm with a multi melta

 

Scout Bike Squad (3) with 2 grenade launchers

 

3 dakka preds

 

3 rifleman dreads

 

Quick math says that's about 1495. It may not be the best list ever, and it may lose badly. Both scout choices are personal preference for me, certainly the squad in the Storm is heavily dependant on going first or otherwise relies on outflank to do any damage. But..it's got a lot of potential shots that'll either take down fliers or ignore FNP. I don't know that I'd actually field a list like this, the least because I play Salamanders..

 

That being said, I'll probably get a LRA just for my collection, and it'll field an HQ choice (power armor libby or captain) and some sternguard. There aren't a lot of options otherwise, considering it's small transport capacity and lack of an assault ramp. I think it'd be decent with Chapter Master and honor guard tho...really tricked out bastards with storm shields and melta/plasma guns across the board. I think it'd be a decent trick to unload a libby/sternguard in front of a squad hiding in cover, null zone, dragonfire bolts, then put a subterranean blast on them so they're stuck there.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

How many D weapons are you going to see? Since Apoc is normally on a big table, you can probably hide behind a large piece of terrain. You can also outmaneuver the large weapon carrier of doom.

[Hellios]

How many D weapons are you going to see? Since Apoc is normally on a big table, you can probably hide behind a large piece of terrain. You can also outmaneuver the large weapon carrier of doom.

 

None... I'll just vortex you from across the table... :cuss

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Hmmm...Hmmm...Hmmmm...Ummmm...Errrr....I think that's a problem

[templargdt]

To answer the OP, I would use it to destroy armored vehicles while killing infantry with the TFC. Each turn I would close to 12" and shoot something with the TLMM and machine spirit the TFC into whatever infantry presented itself. Give it mobile cover with rhinos and you will basically never kill this vehicle outside of apocalypse. I would probably stuff a combat squad and librarian inside for a mobile scoring unit and null zone bubble.

 

I love the vehicle, too bad it's only IA. Maybe in the 6th edition codex.

[Gothical]

Thinking about normal games, rather than Apocalypse:

 

I'd ram it down the enemy's throat, hitting vehicles with the TL-MMs each turn, then use it as a mid-field bunker, preventing any vehicles from closing on that portion of the board and smacking infantry around with the TFC.

 

The fact that the TFC can move-and-shoot as it's mounted on a vehicle is a massive bonus compared to the standard TFC in the army list, particularly as it is not an Indirect-Fire weapon.

 

I'd throw in a Command Squad or Honour Guard just to keep the beast safe - it's biggest weakness is likely to be assault (given that most guns will struggle to do any serious damage to it), and possibly Monstrous Creatures. An HQ and some sort of appropriately configured Command/Honour Guard Squad should see off nearly anything that is trying to get to it. Yes, it makes for a very heavy points-investment (some 600pts minimum) but it can really secure a section of the board which is going to suppress enemy movement, allowing you to attack choice targets; and it should draw a lot of firepower, leaving your force relatively unmolested (and if they don't ignore it, it can blast through a lot of targets by itself).