Scots

[afrodude112]

space wolves are a close combat army who look like vikings, last night i was watching Braveheart and wondered "should i make my space wolves scottish".

ive got a bucket load of greenstuff and was thinking about making some kilts and tartan pattern shoulder pads for my men.

 

i wanted some other opinions before i rushed into it.

all are welcome to comment (but not troll)

[Khavos]

You mean like this?

 

They're your models, do as you like with them.

[Growler67]

They're your models, do as you like with them.

 

^^^^THIS. There is no hard rule that makes anyone have to pattern their SW Army after Vikings. Nordic influenced, sure. But who is to say that on one of the other continents of Fenris that they wouldn't be more Germanic or Celtic influenced?

[Void Master]

Nordic influenced, sure. But who is to say that on one of the other continents of Fenris that they wouldn't be more Germanic or Celtic influenced?

 

Well, for a start there ain't no continents on Fenris safe for Asaheim, islands are all that exists for the most part. On top of that, chapter randomly gets their recruits from all over the place, and then induces them into the great companies as casualties and promotions dicate, and like it or not, the chapter has a distinct viking flair and feel to it. The particular culture of the tribe the barbarian came from doesn't really matter. On top of that, most of them are seafarers and therfore naturally look more like vikings than anything else.

 

I'm not trying to shoot this idea down by any means, though. If you can pull off a conversion that looks even remotely as cool as those in the link, I say go for it. Just don't call them space wolves... call them another chapter that comes from a different world where people live like highlanders, and use the space wolves codex. I rather dislike people using another army with space wolf rules (eg. chaos space marines... the nurgle rules represent nurgle much better than space wolves, and that very much suggests whoever is doing this simply doesn't care about the background as much as they care about the fact that the space wolf codex is more recent, and perhaps "better" in their eyes).

 

But if you've come up with a custom chapter that is best represented by space wolves because they're savage, don't trust hairdressers and think that sliced bread is atually the next best thing since beer, I have no objections at all, especially if it shows there was some vision behind the idea and some effort put into executing it. What's the difference between using the bog standard codex: space marines and the space wolf codex? in this case, none, as far as I'm concerned - both are fair game.

[Growler67]

So on the "single continent" there aren't inlanders that aren't seafarers but more like highlanders? There aren't any rolling hills where there would be farming villages where hunters or falconers would live? Kraken and fish are the sole diet and there wouldn't be rabbits, boars or stags on the "single continent", right? It's a continent of shoreline and fjords and everybody is represented by the Earth equivalent of Vikings.

 

I think you have a very narrow view and I just HAVE to disagree with you.

[Void Master]

I just HAVE to disagree with you.

 

Maybe you could do that AFTER reading my post? (all of it).

 

I said for the most part. I did't exclude the fact that there are some different cultures. I'm saying that it is unlikely that a whole company only takes recruits from the tribes that live like Highlanders, because they are for a start unlikely to yield enough potential recruits. Secondly, and more importantly, great companies replace losses from the "pool" of blood claws that are currently not assigned to any company due to just having finished the induction into the chapter, and these recruits are from all over Fenris. What are the odds that there is even one pack of 15 blood claws that "graduated" at roughly the same time, all from the same region? Given the losses in training (I'd say that we can safely assume that a single full pack requires several dozen potential recruits, and all those potential recruits have to have performed some kind of heroic act before even being considered recruits...), I find even that hard to believe, and adding to that is the fact that a great company doesn't just consist of one pack, they've got a whole bunch of them (and the losses of blood claws are huge, so they will have to replenish almost after every major campaign). What are the odds of them all being from the same place? It's not like they promote a village at a time to grey hunters...

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I agree with both Khavos and Void Master.

 

They are your dudes, you've paid the cash, so feel free to play them like you want.

 

That said, I agree quite a lot with VM. In 40K land, worlds seem to be mono-culture. All those on Fenris are Nordic. All those on Planes World [where the DA where getting] were pretty much all North American Indians. In fact, nearly all of the Imperium is made up of white people, which doesn't really hold up.

It is just the way GW has written the fluff. *shrugs*

 

I had always thought that the continent was not open to the natives and they live on the islands....?

C:SW 2nd ed.

"The lands of Asaheim are the forbidden realms of the divine, where native legend forbids man to go. Only a warrior chosen by the gods can enter Asaheim, and only the best of the brave are chosen."

 

C:SW 5th ed.

"Yet Asaheim is remote, surrounded by cliffs thousands of feet that raise it above the seas and separate it from the oceans as one world from another. Its fabled land mass provides no refuge for those that live beyond its rocky confines. To a tribesman, it is truly the land of the gods."

 

I think doing a Celtic chapter, who may be very much like the Wolves, is a great idea. I'm not sold on the brown paint job of the Raven Born, but other than that, I like them a lot. :D

[Grey Mage]

Of course, that isnt to say you cant use the SW rules for a celtic themed marine force- your not the first person to think its an excellent idea. Im one of those who likes the thought, but I already have a SW force, another with different paint is to silly for me :D.

 

Also, you could have gaelic looking men on fenris, or any skin color you can imagine- but they will have ships, and they will use them to fish at the least, and likely raid their neighbors. Cattle theiving will be unlikely, simply because you wont find many islands large enough to hold two tribes.

[Spacefrisian]

If you wanna make "William Wallace" marines you might wanna be isnpired by this:

Warriors: Barveheart 1/5

Warriors: Braveheart: 2/5

Warriors: Braveheart 3/5

Warriors: Braveheart 4/5

Warriors: Braveheart 5/5

 

A much better depiction than the actual movie if you ask me. Interresting to.

[dragon950]

When I think of the space wolves I think of Northern Europe during the fall of the Roman Empire. I think the movie that best portrays them is King Arthur with clive owen. Just mix the british, germans, and knights together and thats what a space wolf is. Merlin would be a Rune Priest; that is if he was taller, bigger, and wore power armor with high-tech weapons.

[S. Bloodhowl]

I'm sure these guys will look ace, great idea!

 

I'm sure someone in the WiP forum had a similar idea a while back but basing them on Celts and their mystic animal beliefs rather than Kilty beardy nut-jobs (gotta love being Scotish!) :cuss

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Didnt the Ragnar books have a few recruits that were from inland locations, who knew nothing of sailing? i thought they were hill people...

 

WLK

[LPetersson]

So on the "single continent" there aren't inlanders that aren't seafarers but more like highlanders?

I think you have a very narrow view and I just HAVE to disagree with you.

 

 

As Marshall Wilhelm pointed out, planets in the GrimDark™ are usually mono-culture, so no, there aren't any highlanders on Fenris.

 

In all the fluff I have managed to find, and I'm reasonably confident that I have read it all bar WD articles and the audio book, Fenrisians are always essentially vikings as you would find in Scandinavia around 800AD...

 

Anyway, I dislike people using established chapters and using Wolf Rules, but I think it's pretty cool when people come up with their own themed chapters like this.

And hey, it's your little plastic dudes so you can do with them what you want...

[Growler67]

I am not going to venture into the realm of "counts as" because I personally do not care for the idea. Nothing technically wrong with it, just not for me.

 

My point with the reaction given against the OP is that I don't see a problem with flavoring a Space wolf army in "other than" Nordic/Viking in appearance. I think we can all accept that climate on a given world had variances - it is NOT the same planet wide. I think we can all agree that the culture including the mythology and belief system of the Feneresians is all encompassing - everyone has the same Gods and so on.

 

My agreement with the OP is that there is certainly enough variance in the tribes of Fenris that they do not ALL derive EVERYTHING the same way as everyone else. THAT is why Clans battle with other Clans, otherwise it would be a planet of Hippy Utopian Vikings. Different things grow in different places and so it would figure that there are variations in: diet, clothing materials, housing and weapon materials and so on. So in general terms a warmer climate in the equatorial region of the planet would allow if not dictate that those tribes would have differences with the tribes that originate closer to the polar regions, right?

 

For agruements sake: The equatorial tribes would not believe in a different deity system than any other tribes of Fenris. However, maybe their diet wouldn't be so predominantly seafood but mabe more terrestrial in composition. They may not have as strong a need to wear pelts or as many or as thick, so maybe they would wear other clothing more better suited to the climate in their home region of the planet. I didn't say nor do I mean that they wouldn't wear pelts, just maybe that their cloting options may not be as dominated by the singular option as would be dictated by a more polar region.

 

Culturally they are ALL Fenresians. They ALL believe in the same things. But there CAN be room for variation in appearance and whether one describes it as Germanic or Celtic or whatever (in appearance) it is just a variation in flavor not substance. Some have blond hair and some have black or red. That goes back within our own speculative past in human history as the potential grounds for tribal clashes.

 

I think the wearing of tabbards or kilts or whatever is NOT out of the question in the way one decides how they may wish their Army to appear. Close-mindedness is the foundation of prejudice. We are ALL fans of the Sons of Russ. Can we not agree that they shouldn't ALL look like Viking clones of one another? Can we sometimes agree to disagree otherwise?

 

@ afrodude112 - as others here as well as myself in this and other threads stated before, it's your Army. Build, paint and customize them the way you wish. The staunch nay sayers will always be around. They have and are allowed to express their opinions. You too have that right and may exercise it however you wish in regards to the appearance of your Army.

[Void Master]

I am not going to venture into the realm of "counts as" because I personally do not care for the idea. Nothing technically wrong with it, just not for me.

 

The staunch nay sayers will always be around. They have and are allowed to express their opinions.

 

I think that makes you one of them, because basically you've just said what everyone else said, except some people suggested using a count as instead of space wolves, whereas you suggested space wolves instead of count as, whats the difference?

 

My agreement with the OP is that there is certainly enough variance in the tribes of Fenris that they do not ALL derive EVERYTHING the same way as everyone else. THAT is why Clans battle with other Clans, otherwise it would be a planet of Hippy Utopian Vikings.

 

No, the reason why they battle is because there isn't enough food nor space to live, and because islands constantly are forced underneath the sea due to seismic activity, and if a clan survives such an event they then end up raiding and attacking other clans to survive, and try to fight their way onto a different island. That is why they fight, not because they don't agree with each other on the color of Russ' underpants.

 

My point with the reaction given against the OP is that I don't see a problem with flavoring a Space wolf army in "other than" Nordic/Viking in appearance. I think we can all accept that climate on a given world had variances - it is NOT the same planet wide. I think we can all agree that the culture including the mythology and belief system of the Feneresians is all encompassing - everyone has the same Gods and so on.

 

And my point which you seem to be avoiding is that there may well be slight differences in life style planetwide, but there won't be enough drastic culture differences to get a whole company of scotsmen out of it... I'm not going to bother writing all this again, here you go:

 

I said for the most part. I did't exclude the fact that there are some different cultures. I'm saying that it is unlikely that a whole company only takes recruits from the tribes that live like Highlanders, because they are for a start unlikely to yield enough potential recruits. Secondly, and more importantly, great companies replace losses from the "pool" of blood claws that are currently not assigned to any company due to just having finished the induction into the chapter, and these recruits are from all over Fenris. What are the odds that there is even one pack of 15 blood claws that "graduated" at roughly the same time, all from the same region? Given the losses in training (I'd say that we can safely assume that a single full pack requires several dozen potential recruits, and all those potential recruits have to have performed some kind of heroic act before even being considered recruits...), I find even that hard to believe, and adding to that is the fact that a great company doesn't just consist of one pack, they've got a whole bunch of them (and the losses of blood claws are huge, so they will have to replenish almost after every major campaign). What are the odds of them all being from the same place? It's not like they promote a village at a time to grey hunters...

[Wysten]

Personally, I think the entire idea of Space Wolves wearing kilts to be rediculous, considering the planet moves away from the sun in it's natural orbit and plunges the entire planet into ice ages and temperate summers. While it is not all ice, the climet depends entirely on the season, not where you live. In winter, there is very little light and everything becomes really cold. Kilts or a entire scotish army in this case would break the suspention of belief as it's simply making something in real life into a marine.

 

However, I do believe that their style, rather then their fluff, can be influenced. While kilts would be rediculous, I could fully imagine every grey hunter having chainswords on the end of their bolters, forming up a small formation of chainswords to run the foe upon. Big group of orks charging? They take formation and meet the charge full on in the typical manner of a son of Russ, with defience and that could merit a interpentation of the counter attack special rule. Or subtle style changes, power axes and infulenced power blades with big chunky boltguns with sheilds strapped to the side of it so it can be used as a imprompt sheild and beating weapon, bright red hair. Those things are totally believable and practical interpitations.

 

Just as said, I would not like to see a blunt "we are scotish marines," but to have these small influcences taloured into some space wolves? Thats totally palusable.

[Spacefrisian]

Personally, I think the entire idea of Space Wolves wearing kilts to be rediculous, considering the planet moves away from the sun in it's natural orbit and plunges the entire planet into ice ages and temperate summers. While it is not all ice, the climet depends entirely on the season, not where you live. In winter, there is very little light and everything becomes really cold. Kilts or a entire scotish army in this case would break the suspention of belief as it's simply making something in real life into a marine.

 

Again someone who didnt take a closer look to my links, if you would have done that you would have noticed something about the pants they actually wore underneath those kilts.

[Wysten]

Personally, I think the entire idea of Space Wolves wearing kilts to be rediculous, considering the planet moves away from the sun in it's natural orbit and plunges the entire planet into ice ages and temperate summers. While it is not all ice, the climet depends entirely on the season, not where you live. In winter, there is very little light and everything becomes really cold. Kilts or a entire scotish army in this case would break the suspention of belief as it's simply making something in real life into a marine.

 

Again someone who didnt take a closer look to my links, if you would have done that you would have noticed something about the pants they actually wore underneath those kilts.

I did, and I don't see why Space wolf culture could even need a kilt when their planet is essencally an ice ball. It's more antartic condictions with pretty hot volcanic summers rather then the rough highlands. Hence while some parts apply directly (the tactics, the wriestling, the clothing and beards verious hand to hand combat weapons within reason. These guys don't farm, so I would imagine more spears with the occational inherited blade) and some do not. (Like putting a kilt directly onto a marine so that rather then making the influence subtly, and as said, these guys don't have farmers to adapt weapons from, hence flails, sickles would be forsaken for pointed spears, since typically many creatures on the planet would be larger then them, meaning a weapon with reach and power would be better. Axes would be great as it would be a powerful weapon against simlar creatures, though I imagine most would use large knives and adapt the swordsmanship from there.)

 

Scotish, as with all things is great provided it inkeeps with the space wolves, rather then simply making it scotish people in space. Same with celtic people, it should never be celtic people in space, but rather space wolves with celtic influnences. Consideration for both enviroments have to be given to make it convincing.