Renegade idea, comments requested

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

Inspiration struck me last week as to an idea for a DIY. I want to finish the one I'm working on now, but I don't want to lose my idea. So, I am trying to note my major idea down in an outline and save it. This started as a loyalist chapter, but I have enough of those and it occurred to me that this would also make an interesting renegade group. Some of the ideas I'm going to float below are probably not new and some probably even contradict.

 

I'm thinking probably a later founding, say 23rd. I might go back to 17 or maybe even 7. My reason for thinking that a later founding will work better is because I think I want to use Ultra-stock, but not from the Ultramarines or any of the second founding successors. I figure the later the founding, the more likely I am to NOT have GW come in an write my parent Chapter as not having been founded yet. If anyone has a another reason to prefer any particular one of these, let me know. It is probably not crucial to the story except as to what I already mentioned.

 

My basic concept is for the High Lords to create a chapter and the new chapter sets up stock on a feral world. On this world though, the natives have lost most contact with the Galaxy (which is why they have reverted to being feral) and begun to quietly be involved in revering animal totems in the sense of trying to merge the spirit of the animal with themself.

Animal Totems

I realized after the fact that apparently GW has done something with animal totems with regard to the Steel Cobras. I obviously want to make my treatment of the issue different so I'm not copying. Right now, the best way I have to not copy is actually to not read. I will develop my idea and then read to see how much I matched up. Hopefully it will not be all that much.

As the new chapter begins to draw from the local population, these beliefs seep into the chapter's beliefs ever so slightly.

 

Plus the unsophisticated nature of the raw material may cause them some problems with being comfortable with technology or at least with tech priests, Accordingly, they might develop a problem with the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Problems with the Tech Priests

I think that this is listed as one of the DIY Don'ts because it is so common, almost as much as being lost in the warp for a few centuries. However, it seems to me that the reason is seems to be frowned upon to the extent that it is, is because it has no consequences. Here, I am using it precisely because it will have consequences.

The problem will boil into animosity and a feud. As a result, the Adeptus Mechanicus will be very, very stinting with the supply runs to the new chapter. The new chapter accordingly have very few terminator armor suits (which they received before the feud really got going) and not too many operable tanks because they don't have spare parts. Meanwhile the Adeptus Mechanicus will be pulling strings to have them given very hazardous duty. Eventually, this will provoke a revolt within the chapter and the revolt will lead to becoming renegade.

 

I have a couple of ways the revolt can go. I can either have a company or two revolt against the rest of the chapter. Or I can have the entire chapter revolt. The latter is more dramatic and provides better resources for the new warband. I am not sure that I really want better resources though, because good story can be made out of the new chapter having to get equipment (though those stories run the risk of being "too cool"). Anyway, in either case combat will break out and the head of the company or the chapter master will be slain by the rebels. Probably any loyalist marines will have to go as well; certainly all or most of the training cadre supplied by the parent chapter will need to go. Does anyone have any thoughts on which approach is better?

 

In any case, these rebel marines are now renegade. I can have the Imperium respond by glassing their planet, driving them into space. (I can have the Imperium find out about the totem thing among the native population and order them exterminated by the chapter as the catalyst for the rebellion.) I can have the press of imperial forces drive the chapter from it's home planet. I can have no one know about this for a long, long time because, thanks to the Adeptus Mechanicus, this chapter and this planet is largely ignored. Thoughts?

 

I can have the new renegade group raid others for their gene-seed. They can begin by going after warbands and other renegades (probably not because they are renegade but because the new band perceives them as softer targets, if only slightly.). Or they could go after a Space Marine chapter or company, either in part or, somehow, by attacking its fortress monastery.

Fortress Monastery

I have to admit that writing up how these new guys worked out a campaign to destroy a Space Marine Chapter in its home Fortress Monastery or at least seize control of same long enough to loot equipment and gene-seed is extremely tempting. On the other hand, I think it is something that is probably done too much and is a big step in the "too cool" direction. After all it took the Alpha Legion three centuries to take out the Emperor's Swords. Certainly these new, and under-equipped new guys could not hope to overpower another Chapter unless 1) they took huge losses, around 75% minimum, and 2) the entire chapter had gone renegade in the previous decision point. If I did this, I think it would be best to have them go after a newly Founded Chapter, say from the next founding after theirs. This would yield less equipment and gene-seed because such a chapter would be under strength.

Alternately, if the option above to have no one know about the fact that this chapter has gone renegade immediately is taken, then these guys could somehow denounce the heresy of another fledgling chapter, get the mission to wipe them out, and use that pretext to steal equipment and gene-seed, perhaps getting outed by other attacking chapters in the process. (I just don't know if it works like that when a whole chapter is declared heretics.) Finally, they could take their feud to the Adeptus Mechanicus directly and attack supply ships or gene-seed shipments directly. (Do they even ship gene-seed after a chapter is founded?) What are thoughts on these options/ideas?

 

From a base-of-operations perspective, I have some options. 1) They could simply manage to hang on to their old homeworld, but this obviously only works if the whole chapter goes renegade. This gives them access to the facilities of the chapter intact, such as they were. 2) They could find and set up a secret base on another feral world as similar to the one they left as possible. They would feel comfortable here. And, if I wanted, I could have this second feral world be the ones with the animal totem ideas that creep into the renegade chapter. The thing is that feral worlds are only like 8% of all worlds - granted that is 8% of 1,000,000 worlds. 3) They could go mobile and essentially be fleet based. 4) They could base out of a dead asteroid or moon, but then the question is where do they get new recruits? Do they just hope that enough other renegades will find and join them? 5) They could find some sort of nook or small warp storm or something that they can hide in. Still there cannot be all that many such phenomenon in the universe and this seems to be heading towards too cool again. 6) They could move to the Maelstrom or the Eye of Terror. I'm not sure what options for recruitment there are on daemon worlds though. Also, I don't really want them to be subordinate to anyone like the Black Legion or the Red Corsairs. Thoughts?

 

Finally, while I think they would start out as simple renegades, I want them to move in the direction of being true Chaos Marines. This is why I introduced the animal totem idea earlier - I think it would make them more willing to accept bonding and possession from daemons. It also sets up a belief structure that is not based on the Emperor and would I think make it easier for them to decide his is a false Emperor and a false god. Do people think this idea flies? Otherwise, I'm left with them getting force to flee into the Eye of Terror or something.

 

Another option that struck me when I was reading the Codex (and I strongly suspect that I am not the only one it has ever struck) is to have someone who was formerly from the Emperor's Swords join up with the newly renegade chapter. He could work his way up in the ranks through intrigue, murder, and challenges, and lead them to Chaos. He could have joined with that intent. What do you think about this?

 

Thanks,

[TC213]

1st question:

 

I think the whole "raid for supplies because I am that desperate" is actually a decent way of going renegade. You could either go for the rash and impetious captain pirating an Ad Mech convoy, the Chapter Master catching on and battle ensues or the Chapter Master raiding and the Captains try to stop this un-imperial behaviour. Either way it could be a cool thing.

 

2nd question:

 

Here I am not sure what you want. Does it really matter what happens to the planet? Is it going to be a major part of the IT, or just a short paragraph? If it is going to major, you could use it to explain your Chapter mental state (i.e. allowed to raid from a base, forced to flee etc.) If you are thinking of using the destruction of the planet for going rogue, I feel like it has been done too much. Much more interesting to have them slip into heresy while doing the Emperor's work.

 

3rd question

 

Perhaps use the gene-seed from the revolting Marines from question one as a taste, and then growing a gluttony for gene-seeds. But if your Chapter is already raiding the Ad Mech for supplies, then maybe have them chance upon a gene-seed transport (remember, the Chapters regularly tithe). Be aware however that these convoys would be very protected (Marines don't mess about with their gene-seed)

 

4th question

 

I think remaining on the planet after putting down their internal differences so to speak is a new and interesting thing, and demonstrates that the Imperium take a long time to react (many cases the Inquisitorial ships arrive just as heresy takes place to save the day, which I find unrealistic in such a huge and fractured Imperium)

 

5th question

 

Hmmmm... I always think 'deciding he is the false Emperor' smacks a bit of 20th century religious indifference instead of 40th millennia die-hard fanaticism.

 

6th question

 

Don't know enough about this to give a coherent answer.

 

 

Overall, I like the idea of a Chapter who doesn't turn primarily because of the homeworld. Maybe even have them continue to revere the Emperor after offing half their battle-brothers and reusing their gene-seed, sending them down a twisted mental path, imagining he sees a battle-brother he has slain reappear in a young neophyte could mess someone up.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

1st question:

 

I think the whole "raid for supplies because I am that desperate" is actually a decent way of going renegade. You could either go for the rash and impetious captain pirating an Ad Mech convoy, the Chapter Master catching on and battle ensues or the Chapter Master raiding and the Captains try to stop this un-imperial behaviour. Either way it could be a cool thing.

 

I liked it too and it is very, very renegade. I was just afraid it had been done far too many times. I'm glad you liked it too. I hadn't thought of having the Chapter Master be the one to lead the misbehavior since I figured that guy for sure would be more likely to be loyal (having probably come from another chapter). Still, if the training cadre was just a training cadre and the Chapter Master was homegrown it might work. I'll want to roll that one around in my head for a bit.

 

Otherwise, what did you think of the idea that the animosity with the Ad. Mech. (as opposed to the Inquisition) is what forces them to start down the path to being renegade?

 

2nd question:

 

Here I am not sure what you want. Does it really matter what happens to the planet? Is it going to be a major part of the IT, or just a short paragraph? If it is going to major, you could use it to explain your Chapter mental state (i.e. allowed to raid from a base, forced to flee etc.) If you are thinking of using the destruction of the planet for going rogue, I feel like it has been done too much. Much more interesting to have them slip into heresy while doing the Emperor's work.

 

I like the doing the Emperor's work idea. Alternately, maybe this chapter believes that the Emperor, being only a great man, had a vision. They might feel that vision has failed or that they have an equally valid different vision. Or that they are doing what he would want had he still be conscious. They are, after all, his heirs and might feel that it is the High Lords who are the problem and the usurpers. This would especially be the case if there was some previous cultural thing in their planet to set the precedent for them, which would be possible in a feral world. At least this could be a starting point; as they get more renegade and fall into Chaos, this is bound to change to a more active apathy to the Emperor.

 

The thing I want avoid though is the noble and good chaos space marine. The one who still tries to protect planets etc. because of a sense of duty or honor. Don't get me wrong, I like that concept, but it seems to be somewhat common and not the story I want to tell.

 

3rd question

 

Perhaps use the gene-seed from the revolting Marines from question one as a taste, and then growing a gluttony for gene-seeds. But if your Chapter is already raiding the Ad Mech for supplies, then maybe have them chance upon a gene-seed transport (remember, the Chapters regularly tithe). Be aware however that these convoys would be very protected (Marines don't mess about with their gene-seed)

 

I agree that I have a fondness for the raiding of the Ad. Mech. and your idea of raiding for gene-seed is interesting, but it raises some questions in my mind. First, wouldn't a convoy bound to the Ad. Mech. be a chapter's convoy? The Ad. Mech. convoys would be outbound with supplies and equipment. Or do I have that wrong? Second, if the Chapter keeps its old homeworld, then it also keeps its own supplies of gene-seed so why would it need to raid at that point, at least for gene-seed? I suppose the gene-seed bank might have been damaged by the in-fighting, leading them to need to covertly acquire more stock. Third, it occurs to me that the Chapter might continue to tithe gene-seed, even after going renegade, if no one on the outside knows about them going renegade. After all, not tithing would give away the game. But what ability does the Ad. Mech. have to detect the beginnings of mutation and Chaos in the gene-seed? I wonder if it was feasible, if everyone knew about the feud between the Ad. Mech and this Chapter, that any suspicions raised by the Ad. Mech. (at least initially) as to the purity of the gene-seed, would be essentially ignored b/c everyone assumed it was just the Ad. Mech. trying to stir up trouble.

 

Finally, I am wanting to use the raiding as the means to get older equipment which would explain why a fairly new renegade group would have older equipment instead of the newer stuff (which would make them look like true Space Marines on the table).

 

I'm thinking maybe they first fought a warband and looted it for equipment they lacked, which gave them the idea for looting the Ad. Mech. One Company may have started doing this and then it went on for a while secretly. Maybe that Company was building up its own storehouse like the Cave of Ali Baba where it had all this stuff against the day that the Ad. Mech completely cut them off. This also might explain why they might have pursued gene-seed even if they still had their own source.

 

4th question

 

I think remaining on the planet after putting down their internal differences so to speak is a new and interesting thing, and demonstrates that the Imperium take a long time to react (many cases the Inquisitorial ships arrive just as heresy takes place to save the day, which I find unrealistic in such a huge and fractured Imperium)

 

I completely agree, but I also think that at some point the Imperium will get around to them and they need to, and would be, preparing for that day, including constructing massive planetary fortifications. Unless they can stay covert - pretend to be a loyalist Chapter in one set of colors, but have a secret villain identity with different armor, different colors, etc. for the illegal stuff. This may be getting to elaborate. KISS applies to IAs too. Besides, I don't know that this would be believable, at least not for long term.

 

5th question

 

Hmmmm... I always think 'deciding he is the false Emperor' smacks a bit of 20th century religious indifference instead of 40th millennia die-hard fanaticism.

 

The "false emperor" thing is a fairly central doctrine in the chaos marine codex. I was thinking that the Chaos gods were possibly more like their feral totems than this distant emperor which leads them to follow the Chaos gods. That said, I doubt they will like the effect of that choice, but it would probably be too late at that point. Either way, they definitly know they are from the Emperor's genetics and would not regard him as anything other than a long dead, and very successful, chief. They may also regard the slow decline of the Imperium and all the threats that keep on pushing in on it as being proof that the grand design has a flaw and, thus, they might be looking for a new way.

 

6th question

 

Don't know enough about this to give a coherent answer.

 

Fair enough. It's something that popped up in the Codex that seemed to scream that it might be an interesting plot device. It also creates a tie with the Alpha Legion which has a reputation for being covert and subversive, kind of like a chapter that has gone renegade and pretends to still be loyal. I was thinking a single Sorcerer/Librarian with Chaos ties, probably Tzn. or Slaan. might show up, having been guided by the Chaos gods. He would be former Emperor's Swords. He could either come on stage early and help lead the original fallers into heresy or he could come on after they go renegade to gently steer them to Chaos. I kind of favor the latter personally.

 

Overall, I like the idea of a Chapter who doesn't turn primarily because of the homeworld. Maybe even have them continue to revere the Emperor after offing half their battle-brothers and reusing their gene-seed, sending them down a twisted mental path, imagining he sees a battle-brother he has slain reappear in a young neophyte could mess someone up.

 

I don't really want them to be crazy, at least not to start off. Part of my current thinking that has developed since I posted my original thoughts is that one result of the rebellion would be the elimination of all or almost all of the chaplains. Thus, if they keep their homeworld, then without chaplains, those totem beliefs would begin to gain ground within the chapter leading to the eventual slide into Chaos and not mere renegadeness.

 

I am also thinking of using the progression of the story to arrange how I collect my army. I may start by buying the most marineesque units, pure CSM, Raptors, Havocs, Bikers, Chosen, Terminators, etc. (Sadly, according to the B&C public, many of these suck as units). Then once I have those, I will start to add in more "demonic" units: some people may become Possessed; a unit of say Plague Marines, Bezerkers, or Noise Marines may be guided to join up or they acquire a Defiler; maybe some Oblits will drop in. After that the fall begins to really get moving and I might add in some greater or lesser deamons and a daemon prince.

 

I'm also considering showing the capricious nature of Chaos by having the Emperor's Sword Sorcerer, assuming he gets in the script, become so "gifted" that he becomes Chaos Spawn.

 

Something I am wrestling with though is what originally starts the feud with the Ad. Mech. It cannot be pure Ludditeism, because after they go renegade, they have to be able to still use tech. Hell, they have to want tech enough to go seek it out and steal it. It's kind of a catch-22.

 

Thanks for your feedback!