Those-IA-Equivalent-Things-in-Imperial-Armor

[Ecritter]

Right some of the comments made in this topic have sounded quite dictatorial. What right do any of us have to dictate to the rest of the community about the way they wish to write an article about their Chapter? Surely trying to limit the amount of 'acceptable' ways to right about a Chapter is going to stifle creativity. If you cast your minds back to the Iron Man Competition that Ferrata put together a couple of years ago (I think), members were encourage to think outside of the box when presenting the information about the Chapter they were entering. The entries included Inquisitorial reports, IAs and a few other presentation methods. Now, what if Ferrata, being the great mod boss that he is (no sarcasm intended - honest ;) ), had said IAs only because our core member base only deem them to be the accepted way of presenting a Chapter? It would have been boring. Like the rest of you, I enjoy reading IAs but for once it was nice to read Chapters presented in other formats.

 

Without rules and guidelines ... we are left with only anarchy. Now I personally am a fan of anarchy, just not sure if it fits here. B)

[NightrawenII]

Damn, guys. I just spend a day with my gf and such madness happens. <_<

 

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/heresysml.png

Consider this stolen. :P

 

Edit: By the time I write one reply, there is half a dozen new replies...

Don't worry, see the above. ;)

 

@Dark Apostle Thirst

The Liber has never been about IAs only, it was/is about DIY. However, because we have on this board another sections, which pretty much cover all other aspects of DIY(=Short Stories, PC&A, Homegrown Rules), the Liber was mainly used for the backstory-aspect of the Chapters. And the *best* way to write an article about your Chapter was, until release of IA9, the Index Astartes.

For this reason people started to associate Liber with writing of IAs.

 

This being said, I share your sentiment of *Liber for backstory writing*, but it seems like majority is against us, so whatever.....

 

The reason I say that we need a standard is because there is no "in a way that suits you best" in the description of the purpose of the Liber Astartes. There shouldn't be. We aren't here to care for your every DIYing need, we are here to make the best possible chapter out of the idea and concept the author has. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

There is no "in the way that suits us" in the description, either.

To be fair, if the Author is posting a Chapter article in the Liber. He is, whenever he wants or not, asking us about "the way that suits us". Of course, he isn't obliged to follow our opinions or conditions. But then again; What was the reason for posting it in the first place?

 

That should be flexible, yes. But there should be a certain standard that is the bare minimum that an authour has to do to be accepted into the Librarium.

 

The Liber is not about creating Librarium articles, either, any more than the PC&A is or the Space Wolves forum is.

No, but it should be aspired to, as a mark of being finished. If the authors have nothing to motivate them besides making their chapter cool, what's to stop them writing ridiculous things like they have 3000 marines and other such nonsense that is so regularily looked down upon?

Ehm, DAT you are talking like you have not read the Ace' story a week ago. :D

 

The inspiration is good, the enforcement is not. (I know, I know.... ^_^ )

[Brother Tyler]

My previous post indicated that I would close the voting the next time I logged on. An interesting discussion has arisen, though, so we'll hold off. The way it looks right now, though, we'll be coming up with a name. The big reason for holding off is that I'm waiting for more admin input on narrowing the field. We came up with a lot of names, so I'd like to give all of the admins (other than myself) a chance to provide input on narrowing the field.

 

In the meantime, I'm quite surprised by the turn the discussion has taken. I'm not displeased as it shows some good sharing of viewpoints. For what it's worth, here's my input.

 

This forum is for developing homegrown Chapters (we really need to expand the tagline to include warbands, orders, etc.). It's not necessarily about the Index Astartes article, though that has, unfortunately, become a common misconception.

 

The Index Astartes article is the most commonly used for a number of reasons. First, it is a very good format that provides a wide range of information that can clearly describe a Chapter to others. Second, it is the format that has been used by Games Workshop. However, the Index Astartes article is not, and has never been, the only format. Properly speaking, the Index Astartes article is merely one format.

 

So what we really have is a "Chapter article" that players can use to develop their Chapter, choosing whatever format they want. The format might be an Index Astartes format, the format used in IA9 (whatever we end up calling it - if we end up giving it a name), a sonnet, a graphic novel, nothing more than a data entry, or whatever.

 

It is definitely within reason to provide examples of formats that players might use to develop their Chapters, describing the pros and cons of each, while also being very clear to explain that whatever format a player chooses is entirely up to the player. Players should never feel compelled to use any format if they don't want to, nor should they ever feel compelled to put more work than they want to into the Chapter. Players that put in more work are more likely to get help from others, true, but that in no way obligates anyone to put in additional work. For all intents and purposes, a player could create a color scheme using the painter, decide upon a set of rules to use, and present it to the world. They're not likely to get a lot of feedback since there's not much to work with, but if that's all they want to do, that's all they have to do.

 

Whether we come up with a name for these IA9 style articles or not (and it looks like we will), these article formats and the IA article formats are nothing more than examples that players can use. They will likely be heavily pushed, but no one is required to use either format if they don't want to.

 

Likewise, players aren't required to fit their Chapter in with the shared universe concept if they don't want to. Most of us, myself included, believe that working in the shared universe concept is the best thing to do, but this is a game. If someone wants to play their game in some non-standard way that we don't like, let them have their fun. We can always add a commentary about whether or not it works continuity-wise with the established canon (so things like female Marines, alternate universes, 7,000-strong Chapters, etc. might have a little note added). But keep in mind that we're here to have fun and play games with our little toy soldiers. Really, deviating from (or, as some have put it, "ignoring") the established background material isn't worth getting all bent out of shape about.

 

Now what other members need to focus their attention on is the readability of the article and whether or not it provides clear information on the Chapter. While it might be reasonable to say that one format or another is recommended, ultimately the choice is up to the author. Once the author has made his decision, it's only polite to stop trying to push that author in another direction and just help him with his Chapter.

 

Now perhaps we need to revisit all of our guidelines for Chapter creation and divorce it from the format, merely looking at the content. We can then provide the formats as examples that players might consider.

 

The relationship between the Liber Astartes forum and the Librarium is foggy to most. It would be entirely acceptable for a member to come up with an article about his/her Chapter and submit it straight to the Librarium. That won't stop the Librarians from accepting it if it meets the standards (which are being formalized now). However, it is highly recommended that players put their Chapter articles up before others for some feedback, and the Liber Astartes forum is the place for that. Whether a player does that or not is a personal choice, recommendation notwithstanding.

 

Once I have more admin input, we'll look at the votes. If the voting looks like it does right now (and I expect that it will), we can make up our own name for these IA9 articles (and hope that GW/FW don't give us something else and put is back in our fanboy place). If we have a strange shift, we might hold off on a name and let nature (or GW/FW) take its course.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I feel almost happily vindicated - theres even a song in there, but a court order prevents me from singing.

[Brother Tyler]

Okay, between last night and this morning we had an interesting correspondence of discussion. First, we had a few more votes against naming the IA9 articles. Second, the admin narrowing down pointed out a few things, including the fact that the IA articles aren't fixed in the manner that many of us take for granted, the fact that the IA9 format articles are close to some of the older IA articles, and the fact that we really don't have a need (or a right) to name something on behalf of GW/FW.

 

So as of this point in time, giving (over) two whole days for members to vote and for the admins to discuss the matter, we had a less than the 2:1 requirement for a name and the admins had narrowed it down even further than I thought they would (coincidentally, not included any of the names I suggested in the very small batch of final names).

 

So we will not be assigning any names to the IA9 format articles. And this also means that we don't try to do so in some underhanded fashion.

 

So what does this mean to the B&C?

 

Well, if GW or FW ever come up with some name for this format of article we'll certainly use it.

 

In the meantime, we need to reconstruct our thinking about Chapter articles. What many of us call the "IA format" or merely an "IA format". The format of articles used in IA9 can also be called an IA article.

 

Apparently this whole thing started with Brule the Spear-Slayer's Avenging Lions article, named simply "The Avenging Lions" (as opposed to "IA: Avenging Lions" or similar as many members usually do). That article is fairly faithful to the articles in IA9 (minus pictures - Brule - when are you going to add pictures? ;) ). Brule's article and the articles in IA9 simply give the Chapter name. Players desiring to use that format of article can simply follow that pattern.

 

Players desiring to use the common IA format can continue to preface the article title with "Index Astartes" (or "IA", or "Index Traitoris", or "IT", or whatever). Alternately, they can ignore that convention and simply provide the Chapter name.

 

What we really need to do now is take a close look at the current batch of articles providing guidance on the creation of DIY Chapters and articles and re-construct them in the manner I outlined in my previous post above. We need to focus on content, and then address format separately, providing examples of the most common formats as well as pointing out some less common formats. If you're interested in helping, let me know.