DA in the Future

[LardO'Blood]

So I opened my inbox today and saw, "Descent of Angels".

HECK YEAH! I thought. Then I read Incoming: Blood Angels and I was like, "Wha?..."

When does GW historically rerelease codexes? Do you guys think there is hope for us outside of 6th edition? How many more 3rd and 4th edition codexes are there left? (Eldar, BT, DH, WH, Crons, Tau, Chaos?...) Of the 3/4 edition codexes which are competitive still?

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Eldar and Chaos are still pretty competitive. DH are getting an update early next year. That leaves WH, BT, Necrons, Tau, and DA. I think I may have heard something about necrons being next year. Tau work fine when played right. Witch Hunters can still be played pretty easily. Ditto for BT.

[Darius Macab]

So I opened my inbox today and saw, "Descent of Angels".

HECK YEAH! I thought. Then I read Incoming: Blood Angels and I was like, "Wha?..."

When does GW historically rerelease codexes? Do you guys think there is hope for us outside of 6th edition? How many more 3rd and 4th edition codexes are there left? (Eldar, BT, DH, WH, Crons, Tau, Chaos?...) Of the 3/4 edition codexes which are competitive still?

 

i had the exact same reaction you did, when did that phrase apply to BA's?

 

the Eldar, BT, DH, CSM and Tau are still competitive. WH is so so and Crons suck

 

if anything its the Inquisition and the DA's that need a facelift the most. i want to play a greenwing army with some Ravenwing and theres not much i can actually choose :)

 

anyway thats my look on it.

 

DM

[Gillyfish]

Well, there's no defined order and technical things like moulding problems can upset the proposed schedule. I think Chaos would have valid claims for asking for an update too. Not sure about Eldar.

 

Three - four books a year is generally the number you might expect to be released. The rumours are that Necrons and Grey Knights will be next year, which leaves a book or two vacant. A marine codex might fit in there nicely as they don't have to release quite so many miniatures and will still sell a lot, so Templars might make sense. When Hemal and I spoke to Jervis at UK Games Day he did say that they were in the early stages of drawing together ideas about the character of the Dark Angels, which suggests to me that the DA are at least a year off, if not more, provided no other projects supersede us.

 

I would expect a DA Codex to arrive in 2012, at the earliest. I'm not sure when 6th edition might appear. I don't think the current codex books have had the strange rules in them that indicate they have been designed with a new ruleset in mind (as happened with Fantasy), so I wouldn't think it would be in the first half of next year. I could imagine 6th edition appearing in 2012 too (again, at the earliest). Whether that would mean our book would come before or be delayed by the release (and presumably another version of Codex Space Marines) I don't know.

 

Of course, the next rulebook could be 2013.

[ellis_esquire]

I agree that a 2012 rerelease looks more likely all evidence considered. As for me I'm just using the time to play sm codec and update improve my army. Means sammy is having a nap is all :D

[Tanhausen]

Do you guys really think they are working on decking another core ruleset?

 

Variations (Apoca, Death in streets and similiar) sure... but core rules...I'd be surprised if it came out before S2 2013... and thats 3 years away... to be honest, I don't plan my gaming that much in advanced!

[Gillyfish]

Honestly, I have no idea. 5th edition is still relatively young and I suspect that they'll be promoting Warhammer for the coming year and filling in gaps in the current 40k provision.

 

I think 2013 is a realistic estimate for a new rule set. I think the direction it takes may depend upon how well Warhammer is received. The more 'anything goes, this is a dangerous world' style of play replete with unusual terrain might spill over into 40k and reintroduce some of the unexpected aspects of the early editions. For the moment, who knows.

 

Anyway, there's more evidence for a DA release in 2012 than a rulebook release. It's one of the reasons why the projects have been surprisingly timely - Jervis indicated that they would be more than happy to hear our ideas for the DA. They may well go in a different direction, but he said he thought the DA were one of the more interesting Chapters and, rather than being the shining paragons that the Ultramarines or Blood Angels are, they are more gritty warriors, exemplifying the idea that the end justifies the means.

 

All of which sounds very interesting!

[Tanhausen]

As long as we get an autoplay book...

 

... come on, we've all wanted to have one sometime! <_<

 

I'm starting to get tired of the smirks when I open up my cases at tournaments :huh:

 

Fortunately, my charisma blinds them so I can fix the dice when I roll <_<

[FerociousBeast]

Army balance is not one of the key factors GW uses when determining whether an army needs to be updated. The biggest factor is sales. Can releasing a new codex boost sales for its release window? As such, GW might be somewhat concerned about the state of the Dark Angel codex's balance, but they're not going to pencil them in for a release window just for that reason.

[Zincite]

I agree, 2013 at the earliest for 6th Ed :teehee:

 

When will we get those DW terminators we so need? Space wolves have there own ones, why not us? :wallbash:

[Deathwing]

Army balance is not one of the key factors GW uses when determining whether an army needs to be updated. The biggest factor is sales. Can releasing a new codex boost sales for its release window? As such, GW might be somewhat concerned about the state of the Dark Angel codex's balance, but they're not going to pencil them in for a release window just for that reason.

 

They are a business after all. Now as a business it would be in their best interest to give us some kind of pdf update so they can sell more robed marines, bikes and terminators.

 

Hopefully they are paying attention to our projects as it is free for them to have us playtest it, free for them to release the pdf (no print costs, and extra bandwidth is probably negligible) and they get an increase in their sales (terminators and bike sales will go up as people make new Deathwing & Ravenwing armies).

 

Speaking of which, it's good to see both projects getting attention again. Hopefully this holiday season sees a lot of playtesting for the Redemption document and more identity and preliminary rules for the Unforgiven document.

[Arvendragon]

Hmm... what is the possibility of GW simply taken the Project: Unforgiven codex, updating it a bit, adding the GW touch (a few spelling mistakes, too) and releasing it as the 5th Edition DA codex?

:P

[Lord_Hail]

I hate to rain on your parade but our model sales are pretty dang good (look at how many robed conversions are in most armys); and if you want to buy bikes for a codex army i think that is why so many ravenwing upgrade sprues are on ebay. How ever i belive it is time for a pdf or at least a rules update for us (and our templar brethern why their at it!!!). A codex update for us (an iron halo for Benial,him and sammy suddenly having a master crafted one handed relic blade) and templars with some crazy terminator captin box with a retinue.... (hint, hint, GW......). In the future i see us getting a "normal" beniel model (a terminator captin with all the bits asociated with it).

[Deathwing]

I hate to rain on your parade but our model sales are pretty dang good (look at how many robed conversions are in most armys); and if you want to buy bikes for a codex army i think that is why so many ravenwing upgrade sprues are on ebay. How ever i belive it is time for a pdf or at least a rules update for us (and our templar brethern why their at it!!!). A codex update for us (an iron halo for Benial,him and sammy suddenly having a master crafted one handed relic blade) and templars with some crazy terminator captin box with a retinue.... (hint, hint, GW......). In the future i see us getting a "normal" beniel model (a terminator captin with all the bits asociated with it).

 

That's fine and all, but think of it this way: If they update our rules, more people will want to play our armies and hence they will sell more models from the entire marine range (increased sales would not just be limited to the DA models, think more terminators and land raiders amongst other things)

 

If their sales don't change it doesn't matter to GW as the PDF updates didn't cost them anything (if they take our projects that is, otherwise it would cost them time and money as they would have had to hire someone to do it).

 

It's a win-win situation for everyone if they publish our project update as an official update (and that's not mentioning all the positive publicity they would get from the gaming community)

[HsojVvad]

Don't be shocked if we only get 2 codecies next year, Grey Knights and Necrons. Maybe we will get one more, but don't be shocked if we only get 2. So that would mean longer waits for everyone else. Just because we got 3 codicies this year doesn't mean we will get 3 or 4 next year.

[Tanhausen]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...besides the recent WH pdf, has GW ever done one?

 

I remember some time ago (2 years?) that in 2 WD numbers they "udpated" the BA... but that was something surprising!

 

Besides those 2 examples, do you guys remember any rules at all that were delivered via PDF or WD? I mean recently, say 3-4 years.

 

If, for example, they finally bring out the Storm Raven for all of the chapters, I'd be quite (positively) surprised that they allowed this via WD and that they actually included the rules/stats.

[Zincite]

@Tanhausen

 

I think they mean the Dark angel FAQ/errata (link below), the only real thing they change is the number of weapons veterans can take however... though that is a very useful change!

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...019&start=2

[RayJ]

@Tanhausen:

 

Eldar received a new unit in White Dwarf this year (the Nightspinner), though it is costed for 4th Edition just like the rest of their codex. It's a decent unit but it has to compete against Falcons, Fire Prisms, and War Walkers on the FOC.

 

Blood Angels received a full actual update as you already stated. WH wasn't an update, but is now available for download as a PDF.

 

That's pretty much the extent of non-codex updates outside of the FAQs, at least for 5th Edition.

 

As to a possible 6th Edition, I think we have a few years left to go with 5th before there is cause for much issue. There are some definite things to tweak for 6th, but I suspect most of 5th Edition will remain in tact. I think we will see some changes to cover saves (more variation so there's a little more 5+ saves and a little less 4+ saves), the allowance of premeasuring (as is now allowed in 8th Edition Fantasy), and some more changes to vehicle durability. Missions balanced for competitive play would be a good addition as well. Other than that, things are pretty well done in the current edition.

 

If they keep up their current trend of codex design, with each army getting the tools they need in multiple FOC slots and having some pretty good internal balance, we will not have much of any problem running 5th edition armies in the new edition.

[Brother Nathan]

but cant rave wing kinda be done with the normal marine dex? i think dark anges need a heck of a revamp to really justify them having a new dex rather than bringing them in line with normal marines... maby characters allowing to do cyphers forces or death wing/greenwing/raven wing. probably wont hapen till after chaos legions/ renegades gets done.

[ellis_esquire]

Actually brother Nathan that's a pretty good idea. Having cut my teeth on the40k world via da and now sm codex, I have to say it needs a serious amount of swing next time round to justify being a stand alone chapter at least rules wise.

 

To have a rule set for 'the followers of the cypher' perhaps representing a part of the fallen that's allegiances are entirely unknown or neutral might be a real injection of fresh air to the chapters ambiguity.

[Cpt_Reaper]

Readind my Codex after getting it back from a friend, I came to a sad conclusion. Unless we get something like a way to make a Fallen army and such, maybe a new vehicle, the DA don't need their own codex. C:SM can make a fairly decent Ravenwing force, with the exception of fearless units, and Greenwing forces just aren't up to scratch anymore. I didn't want to believe it but it may be the sad unwelcome truth. However, I shall continue using C:DA faults and all. We must gice GW a reason to update it, not scrap it.

[Isiah]

Couldn't disagree more. How can the C:SM hope to cover all our current special characters? Or the rich history and backstory? It can't simple as that. The DA need their own Codex as one of the most popular and charismatic gaming chapters (yes despite current 4th ed book) and with so many chapter-specific models on offer.

 

Cheers

I

[Cpt_Reaper]

Don't get me wrong, it would be nigh-impossible for C:SM to cover our history as you say, but our rules are lacking. In C:DH it mentions a "Hunt the Fallen" rule, I have never heard of it. We can't really argue that we deserve our own codex for our history, it is the rules we need. I don't mind having slightly older gear, but I would like something to really shout UNFORGIVEN.

Just my thoughts, but I see where you are coming from. You have more experience than I do, but as a newer gamer ( started in 4th ed) I have missed out on a lot of the Dark Angels' gaming history.

[Gillyfish]

The army books used to be a bit more distinctive. The 4th ed DA Codex was an early Codex in an intended new direction that never really emerged because of backlash from the gaming community. If Codex marines had followed the same pattern then there would have been a lot more distinctiveness between the DA and Codex marines.

 

The Blood Angels are another chapter that could have the argument that they don't need a separate Codex levelled at them. They are, after all, predominantly a Codex Chapter, much like the DA. The pdf codex they had was much closer to our army list than their new book. What's interesting is that the Blood Angel Codex really did set out to make them appreciably different to Codex marines. I would expect a new DA Codex to adopt the same approach. I think a new Dark Angel army will look very different to a Codex list.

[Cpt_Reaper]

Well I hope you are right. I do feel kind of left out when I look at the Asmodai model, or read about "Hunt the Fallen" rule.