Prospero Burns

[A D-B]

I kinda dislike the whole "Russ as the executioner, that the Wolves do what any other Legion would balk at", when we have the World Eaters and Night Lords. what situations are there that the World Eaters would balk at, and given that Russ is known to have

disagreed with the destruction of the two missing Primarchs, and fought against the same happening to Lorgar

, I doubt that he's the 'perfect' executioner. Good, yes, but Magnus seems to have been the only Primarch ordered to be destroyed that he's agreed with the order. Surely Night Haunter, with his ultimate pragmatism, and willingness to do whatever was necessary, would be a much, much better fit for the executioner-role amongst the Primarchs.

Hell, I'd always felt that, similar to the Dornian Heresy, the Night Lords would have taken on a role similar to the Inquisition if they'd stayed loyal.

 

I agree, but for different reasons. I dislike the whole concept of an ''Executioner Legion'' because to me, it smacks too much of ''My Legion/chapter/army is better than yours''. And I've already had enough of that with Ward.

 

I've said as much to Dan, because that's one of my pet hates as well. But where Prospero Burns is concerned, it's what the Wolves think about themselves, and not exactly an objective truth. I do agree it's presented in terms that are fairly hard to argue with, but with a knowledge of the setting - like Lord Caerolion mentioned - the Wolves really aren't any more ferocious or capable of anything more than several other Legions. I think it'll look better with hindsight, when we have novels of several Legions all considering themselves the most punishingly badass.

 

Ultimately, though, it's something readers tend to love. Their faction not just looking good, but being presented as the best, over and above other Legions/Chapters. It's something I consciously tried to avoid in The First Heretic, which, to a degree, I regret now. More scenes of the Word Bearers being absolutely badass in a situation where other Astartes would've hesitated (or whatever) would have pleased a lot of Word Bearer players. It didn't feel true to me to present them in that way, but the majority of the readership eats it up. And not because they're crazy, but because it's a solid, codified slice of revelatory evidence in a tumultuous IP that thrives on competition between the factions.

[Captain Idaho]

I kinda dislike the whole "Russ as the executioner, that the Wolves do what any other Legion would balk at", when we have the World Eaters and Night Lords. what situations are there that the World Eaters would balk at, and given that Russ is known to have

disagreed with the destruction of the two missing Primarchs, and fought against the same happening to Lorgar

, I doubt that he's the 'perfect' executioner. Good, yes, but Magnus seems to have been the only Primarch ordered to be destroyed that he's agreed with the order. Surely Night Haunter, with his ultimate pragmatism, and willingness to do whatever was necessary, would be a much, much better fit for the executioner-role amongst the Primarchs.

Hell, I'd always felt that, similar to the Dornian Heresy, the Night Lords would have taken on a role similar to the Inquisition if they'd stayed loyal.

 

The Nightlords are traditionally very lightning strike kinda guys. The are also basically bullies in their prefered targets, especially post Heresy. Taking down an entire Legion requires an unrelenting ferocity that doesn't quite fit Nightlords.

 

Bloodthirsty? Sure. Relentless tenacity in the face of equals and then turning yourself into monstrous, unstoppable fighting machines when you are in killing range? Not quite. It would take them time to kill a Legion, which isn't suited to execution.

 

The reason the Wolves were considered "to do what any other Legion would balk at" was not a snub at the bravery or commitment of other Legions. The Heresy shows that isn't the case. No, persecuting a Legion requires a fury that is almost unbreakable in the days of the Emperor, because such a thing was unheard of. To defeat a Legion and not be mortally wounded yourself requires a formation of warriors that won't let up or heisitate (strategically and tactically speaking). It also requires a bit of brains.

 

The World Eaters match the Space Wolves in ferocity, maybe even more so, but their's is based on psychoctic fury as opposed to animalist barbarity. If they assaulted a Brother Legion on equal terms they would likely be destroyed along with their enemies, particularly a Legion that is a little more tactically balanced.

 

The Space Wolves have cunning and aren't fools. Their barbarity is not unthinking until you are a few feet away from them and by then it is too late...

 

***Edit*** For the record, I'm not saying there aren't other Legions who could be considered for the role of Executioner, or that the Space Wolves even were (the destruction of the Thousand Sons was done by the particular Legion best suited to the role), I'm giving my view why I think the World Eaters and Nightlords are particularly not suited to a quick execution of a Legion...

[Trel]

I agree, but for different reasons. I dislike the whole concept of an ''Executioner Legion'' because to me, it smacks too much of ''My Legion/chapter/army is better than yours''. And I've already had enough of that with Ward.

 

Hear, hear. I remember when that sentiment first came out, the Space Wolves players in my area walked around as if they owned the place. Such sentiments needlessly cause friction.

 

The idea of the Space Wolves tasked with destroying other Legions is pretty ridiculous anyway, considering the Space Wolves are among the least numerous of the Legions. What if the Wolves had been tasked with destroying the Word Bearers?

 

Moreover, if you had to destroy a Legion, why would you only send one Legion? Send four of them, send an entire segmentum battlefleet. Considering how costly such a war could be, you'd want to make sure you definitely had overwhelming force.

[calgar101]

This whole idea throws up a lot of questions; Why would the Emperor need an Executioner? Why the Wolves? Perhaps he knew how the Canis Helix would interact with a human/geneseed. He may not have forseen that the Wolves would out to be a small legion. Also why would the Wolves think that of their own legion? Yes they are highly confident Astartes but (mostly) they are not arrogant.

[CainTheHunter]

Also why would the Wolves think that of their own legion? Yes they are highly confident Astartes but (mostly) they are not arrogant.

 

We also have the whole story (or rather lack of it) about two Primarchs which are missing - together with their Legions. Why are they missing, were they taken out, and if yes, by whom? A big grey (not a SW grey :P) area for speculations.

[Pavement Artist]

I take issue with this idea of the wolves as a dedicated executioner's axe mainly because the universe is such a varied place with a myriad variety of combat theatres to take into account. Even if you ignore the meat grinder nature of a legion on legion conflict, it's not unfeasible to think that the enemy might choose the battleground. Send the Wolves up against the Iron Warriors in a fortified position, or against Curze's legion on a benighted planet and you're going to find them suffering horrendous casualties. They have certain reservoir of grit and determination that makes them suited for the job more than most but surely that can only go so far?

 

Each of the legions have their own quirks and certain arenas of war that they are suited to. It's unrealistic to think that out of them all, one is ideally suited to taking another group out should the call come in. Especially not if the theatre of conflict is dictated for them.

[Gree]

I agree, but for different reasons. I dislike the whole concept of an ''Executioner Legion'' because to me, it smacks too much of ''My Legion/chapter/army is better than yours''. And I've already had enough of that with Ward.

 

Hear, hear. I remember when that sentiment first came out, the Space Wolves players in my area walked around as if they owned the place. Such sentiments needlessly cause friction.

 

The idea of the Space Wolves tasked with destroying other Legions is pretty ridiculous anyway, considering the Space Wolves are among the least numerous of the Legions. What if the Wolves had been tasked with destroying the Word Bearers?

 

Moreover, if you had to destroy a Legion, why would you only send one Legion? Send four of them, send an entire segmentum battlefleet. Considering how costly such a war could be, you'd want to make sure you definitely had overwhelming force.

 

Yeah, explain to me how the Space Wolves alone could ''execute'' the Alpha Legion (Who have no real central command or homebase) or the Iron Warriors (Whose heavily fortifed bases required years of bloody warfare by several Legions to be destroyed in the Scouring) or the Ultramarines (Who outnumber the Space Wolves by a huge margin and control a pretty solid power base).

 

The Wolves went in against Prospero with allies (Custodes and Sisters) the element of suprise, complete unopposed orbital domination, and Magnus sabotaging his own Legion. They suceeded yes, but with huge casaulties. They had the entire deck stacked in their favor. I hate to think how they would do alone against a Legion who is fully prepared for them and willing to contest the orbital battle.

 

The Wolves would be good for taking out about one prepared Legion, and then they would have suffered far too many losses to remain an effective fighting force.

[Cerelius]

Small quote from another review

 

 

“‘The Sixth Legion Astartes has a reputation,’ said Bear.

 

‘All the Legions Astartes have reputations,’ replied Hawser.

 

‘Not like ours,’ said Ogvai. ‘We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even our brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial.’

 

‘And you’re not?’ asked Hawser.

 

‘If we need to be,’ said Ogvai. ‘But if that was our natural state, we’d all be dead by now.’

 

He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.

 

‘It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous,’ he said.”

 

 

After reading this it reminded me of a discussion i had wit a mate ten years ago on how the Wolves weren't as stupid as they pretend to be. Finally proves what i thought of the Wolves all along.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I've said as much to Dan, because that's one of my pet hates as well. But where Prospero Burns is concerned, it's what the Wolves think about themselves, and not exactly an objective truth. I do agree it's presented in terms that are fairly hard to argue with, but with a knowledge of the setting - like Lord Caerolion mentioned - the Wolves really aren't any more ferocious or capable of anything more than several other Legions. I think it'll look better with hindsight, when we have novels of several Legions all considering themselves the most punishingly badass.

 

Ultimately, though, it's something readers tend to love. Their faction not just looking good, but being presented as the best, over and above other Legions/Chapters. It's something I consciously tried to avoid in The First Heretic, which, to a degree, I regret now. More scenes of the Word Bearers being absolutely badass in a situation where other Astartes would've hesitated (or whatever) would have pleased a lot of Word Bearer players. It didn't feel true to me to present them in that way, but the majority of the readership eats it up. And not because they're crazy, but because it's a solid, codified slice of revelatory evidence in a tumultuous IP that thrives on competition between the factions.

 

 

No, please don't change your writing style! One of the things I love most about your work is that you manage to bring in a sense of proportion and reality to your work, something that seems to be increasingly ignored in favour of "These guys are TEH UBER!" Instead of seeing Marines who can deal with whatever the author throws at them, simply because of author-induced plot-armour, is neither good writing, and certainly doesn't end up portraying the Marines as better. Instead, we eventually end up with Matt Ward-esque "and everyone cries themselves to sleep because they can't be Ultramarines".

 

To put it another way, it's much cooler looking and better to read of protagonists who actually have to try against what they fight, instead of bland, over-powered "heroes" who triumph solely because they're the hero. While it's true that the IP "thrives on competition between the factions", it's increasingly becoming not so much of a competition, and more plain one-upmanship (Marneus Calgar can kill an Avatar! Oh yeah well Sanguinor can break Kha-Bhanda's back! So? Logan Grimnar can X! But Azrael can Y!).

 

The Nightlords are traditionally very lightning strike kinda guys. The are also basically bullies in their prefered targets, especially post Heresy. Taking down an entire Legion requires an unrelenting ferocity that doesn't quite fit Nightlords.

 

Bloodthirsty? Sure. Relentless tenacity in the face of equals and then turning yourself into monstrous, unstoppable fighting machines when you are in killing range? Not quite. It would take them time to kill a Legion, which isn't suited to execution.

 

We're talking Pre-Heresy, back when the Legion was (and still should) be infamous for their sheer brutality and tendency towards overkill. This is a Legion whos' idea on how to take out a small, harmless cult is to nuke the continent it's on, destroying not only the cult in question, but thousands of other innocents. The Night Lords haven't been about lightning strikes other than the 3.5's "well, we need a mirror of the Iron Warriors, someone to have 4 FA, 1 HS... Night Lords?" Index Astartes lists them as preferring heavy-handed, brutal strikes over smaller lightning strikes. Both Lord of the Night and Shadow Hunter reinforce this. Throne of Lies features a gathering of most of the Legion to destroy [spoilers]a single Temple of the Callidus Assassins[/spoilers].

Put simply, these aren't guys that screw around when they want something dead. If they were ordered to destroy a Legion, they wouldn't hit-and-run with Raptors, as is so often wrongly thought of as their preferred tactics. I would more say they'd drop the nukes, and I doubt they'd even bother fighting a ground war. They'd simply destroy the planet, as they did with Nostramo. We know they had the fleet to do it, and certainly fits their tactics of an overwhelming strike, intended to stop all future rebellion by others.

[Wispy]

I really like this take on Space Wolves. In a righteous crusade to reclaim the galaxy, they're the ones who will cross the line for the Emperor, the ones even their Brother Primarchs would be hesitant to cross (at least, a line they'd be hesitant to cross before Chaos started wooing Primarchs...). Essentially, Abnett has made Leman Russ the Wolverine of the Astartes. Abnett has been writing for Marvel too long, clearly! ;)

 

My two cents on what Abnett's getting at: This is what makes them dangerous to their brother legions before the Heresy - their willingness to ruthlessly engage and even destroy them. I am sure all the Legions could mount an even fight given the opportunity, but I doubt any of the Primarchs were prepared for the possibility of having the Space Wolves wage ware on them with the Emperor's support (silent sisters, Custodes, etcetera). Of course, this advantage went out the window when the heresy started...

[Lord_Caerolion]

I really like this take on Space Wolves. In a righteous crusade to reclaim the galaxy, they're the ones who will cross the line for the Emperor, the ones even their Brother Primarchs would be hesitant to cross (at least, a line they'd be hesitant to cross before Chaos started wooing Primarchs...). Essentially, Abnett has made Leman Russ the Wolverine of the Astartes. Abnett has been writing for Marvel too long, clearly! :lol:

 

My two cents on what Abnett's getting at: This is what makes them dangerous to their brother legions before the Heresy - their willingness to ruthlessly engage and even destroy them. I am sure all the Legions could mount an even fight given the opportunity, but I doubt any of the Primarchs were prepared for the possibility of having the Space Wolves wage ware on them with the Emperor's support (silent sisters, Custodes, etcetera). Of course, this advantage went out the window when the heresy started...

 

More willing to cross the line than the Primarch who gave up his own humanity to become the Emperors tame monster? How willing to cross the line can they be when Russ argued in the defense of Lorgar, as well as the two missing Primarchs? That doesn't sound like a very willing executioner.

 

I'm not saying that the Wolves weren't ferocious, I just think it's treading on the Night Lords toes, as their whole gimmick before going rogue was that they were the ones who threw away all ideas of glory and good image in order to bring peace where only utter annihilation could bring it. They became so feared for how far they would go that systems would go into utter panic at the mere rumour that the Night Lords were coming, and do everything in their power to try to appease them.

 

Russ was too good-natured for that. Magnus seems to have been the only one who Russ always disliked. Everyone else, Russ defended until the last, seemingly regardless of what they did. Hell, if what the spoilers say are true, he even [spoilers]offered Magnus one last chance to surrender, even when his orders had been twisted into "kill them all"[/spoilers]. That doesn't sound like an executioner at all to me.

[Captain Idaho]

We're talking Pre-Heresy, back when the Legion was (and still should) be infamous for their sheer brutality and tendency towards overkill. This is a Legion whos' idea on how to take out a small, harmless cult is to nuke the continent it's on, destroying not only the cult in question, but thousands of other innocents. The Night Lords haven't been about lightning strikes other than the 3.5's "well, we need a mirror of the Iron Warriors, someone to have 4 FA, 1 HS... Night Lords?" Index Astartes lists them as preferring heavy-handed, brutal strikes over smaller lightning strikes. Both Lord of the Night and Shadow Hunter reinforce this. Throne of Lies features a gathering of most of the Legion to destroy [spoilers]a single Temple of the Callidus Assassins[/spoilers].

Put simply, these aren't guys that screw around when they want something dead. If they were ordered to destroy a Legion, they wouldn't hit-and-run with Raptors, as is so often wrongly thought of as their preferred tactics. I would more say they'd drop the nukes, and I doubt they'd even bother fighting a ground war. They'd simply destroy the planet, as they did with Nostramo. We know they had the fleet to do it, and certainly fits their tactics of an overwhelming strike, intended to stop all future rebellion by others.

 

Index Astartes Black Legion confirms that when lightning strikes are concerned, Horus looked towards the Nightlords and White Scars. So if you can't accept the Index Astartes articles or the previous Chaos Codex, then no, they aren't into hard and fast strikes.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, the Black Legion IA may say that, but the Night Lords IA says they aren't. We also have two Night Lord novels indicating a preference for direct attacks, with quotes such as "surprise is an insubstantial blade", going on to say how "fear is a blade that sharpens with use".

 

Yes, the Night Lords use Raptors, but the only source to say they used them extensively was the 3.5 codex, which as mentioned went against all other fluff, both older and more recent.

 

I'll take the sources directly written about the Night Lords over a throw-away line and a completely wrong source.

[Captain Idaho]

I don't see why they can't be renowned for the lightning strike and also the direct assault. The 2 things can be the same thing. As bad :D as the Nightlords certainly are (I always liked how they were bad before Chaos got to their souls!) they certainly aren't Space Wolves or World Eaters.

 

And the novels you speak of, aren't they post Heresy?

 

A fearsome direct assault and clinical brutality is not the same as animalistic fury or psychosis.

 

Plus, I may be looking at things in a different way to others, but an Astartes war with World Eaters or Space Wolves would be over alot quicker than Nightlords. To me, that is what "execution" is rather than a longer, drawn out war (like Corax and his Raven Guard on Istvaan)

[Trel]

The Night Lords' style really doesn't have anything to do with the battle itself, but more the lead-up to it: brutal psychological warfare.

 

If anything, a Lightning Strike goes against the Night Lords' doctrine. It's too quick, too clean. Consider their "battle-cry": we have come for you. A Lightning Strike (say, at the enemy's leadership) suggests "we have come for them. You're OK." The Night Lords were interested in terrifying everybody, not only the enemy leadership, but anyone else who could ever even become an enemy.

 

A series of specifically placed raids, with the right victims left in the right places (in the wrong condition) continually erodes the enemy's morale until they either kill themselves, or the fight is so easy it hardly requires any particular skill at all.

[A D-B]

I think if the Night Lords were tasked with executing another primarch, they'd probably attack the enemy fleet in space, board the flagship in horrendously huge numbers, overwhelm the outnumbered defenders, kill the primarch, and run away.

 

They'd take massive casualties across the board, but nothing like the amount a Legion would take in a protracted planetary siege, or a war based around a fair fight.

 

And of course, that doesn't destroy the Legion. It does, however, leave it vulnerable for future assault. 'Remove the head of the serpent', and all that. I figure that would be their point. The rest of the campaign would involve a lot of taunting, and wearing of the dead primarch's bones as decoration.

 

My only issue with the idea is that the Wolves, as a Legion, really don't strike me as any more brutal or unforgiving than several other Legions. The Space Wolves don't strike me as the obvious (or even best) choice for the Legion to execute other Legions - no more than, say, about half the others. It's risky territory to say any one Legion is the epitome of a certain trait, especially when it's something like savagery, which is claimed by several of them. The Night Lords' canon background already has them as something of an 'ultimate censure' against resistant worlds; the World Eaters are every bit as savage and unforgiving as the Space Wolves - if not moreso, because they're hardwired that way in addition to their natural brutality. Add to that, the track records of the Sons of Horus, the Dark Angels and the Ultramarines in their IA articles, and I struggle to see the Wolves as the Emperor's real go-to secret weapon that they believe themselves to be.

 

But that said, Dan's writing captures them beautifully - it's not a flaw with his work at all - and it's clear throughout the novel that this is just what the Space Wolves think about themselves, rather than what they objectively are in the setting. And that's freaking cool. I love that to pieces.

[Trel]

As long as it is clearly defined that the Wolves believe themselves to be superior and not that the Wolves are actually superior, then I'm OK. After all, pretty much all the Legions see themselves as the epitome of the Astartes (...except the Salamanders. :P )

[Trel]

Double post, sorry.

[Captain Idaho]

I think if the Night Lords were tasked with executing another primarch, they'd probably attack the enemy fleet in space, board the flagship in horrendously huge numbers, overwhelm the outnumbered defenders, kill the primarch, and run away.

 

They'd take massive casualties across the board, but nothing like the amount a Legion would take in a protracted planetary siege, or a war based around a fair fight.

 

And of course, that doesn't destroy the Legion. It does, however, leave it vulnerable for future assault. 'Remove the head of the serpent', and all that. I figure that would be their point. The rest of the campaign would involve a lot of taunting, and wearing of the dead primarch's bones as decoration.

 

That is how I saw their approach really. Not ideal for a quick, clean death.

 

 

My only issue with the idea is that the Wolves, as a Legion, really don't strike me as any more brutal or unforgiving than several other Legions. The Space Wolves don't strike me as the obvious (or even best) choice for the Legion to execute other Legions - no more than, say, about half the others. It's risky territory to say any one Legion is the epitome of a certain trait, especially when it's something like savagery, which is claimed by several of them. The Night Lords' canon background already has them as something of an 'ultimate censure' against resistant worlds; the World Eaters are every bit as savage and unforgiving as the Space Wolves - if not moreso, because they're hardwired that way in addition to their natural brutality. Add to that, the track records of the Sons of Horus, the Dark Angels and the Ultramarines in their IA articles, and I struggle to see the Wolves as the Emperor's real go-to secret weapon that they believe themselves to be.

 

But that said, Dan's writing captures them beautifully - it's not a flaw with his work at all - and it's clear throughout the novel that this is just what the Space Wolves think about themselves, rather than what they objectively are in the setting. And that's freaking cool. I love that to pieces.

 

I think it was a case the Space Wolves reputation precedes them, their own opinion and the fact there were few more easily convinced to destroy the Thousand Sons than the Space Wolves that made them the ideal executioners of Magnus' Legion. Mortarion perhaps, though they were busy with Horus at the time weren't they...?

[Legatus]

I think if the Night Lords were tasked with executing another primarch, they'd probably attack the enemy fleet in space, board the flagship in horrendously huge numbers, overwhelm the outnumbered defenders, kill the primarch, and run away.

 

They'd take massive casualties across the board, but nothing like the amount a Legion would take in a protracted planetary siege, or a war based around a fair fight.

 

And of course, that doesn't destroy the Legion. It does, however, leave it vulnerable for future assault. 'Remove the head of the serpent', and all that.

That... sounds eeriely similar to what the Ultramarines did with the Alpha Legion... :) Well, it was on a planet, not in space, but they attacked the position of the Alpha Legion Primarch with string numbers and took him out, but suffering a lot of casualties in the process, before ultimately retreating. Of course, that was not what they had originally planned to do. They did plan to defeat the Legion entirely. And of course that may not really have happened at all.

 

 

I agree that the Space Wolves were not the only or the most ruthless Legion by a long shot. Angron, Perturabo, Mortarion or Curze all come tom mind. I doubt they would have hesitated to attack a fellow Legion if ordered by the Emperor. But I thin of these the Space Wolves were probably more favoured, as their loyalty and obedience was not in question, whereas the four mentioned above all had some issues. I can see why the Emperor would perhaps not turn to them for a crucial and maybe unpleasant mission.

[mcbeaty]

i think some people are missing the point here the wolves are savage and live to fight tough and cunning they are the perfect killers an extucnior dosent have to be crazy or psycho or hate to kill the whole point is they get the order to chop and the axe falls feelings put aside the space wolves are loyal they will do what is orded as for the point of defending brothers the whole point is there brothers blood thicker than water but when daddy makes a ruling it stands russ will protect his brothers citezens of the imperium to the grave but if so ordered and when all pleas fall on death ears hes got the stomach to do the deed what makes them so dangerouse is not the bloodlust which is a very good thing its being singleminded when a goal is in front of them intelligent enough to change tact and evolve tactics think out side the box and not just follow a rule book and there loyal they wouldnt think themselves above the emprorer getting corrupted by power and they have a heart they know whats right if say angron was accused of killing some guys russ being a good brother would defend him but finding out truths and reciving orders he would do it out of loyalty to big e and he will come to a conclussion that his brothers crime must be brought to justice and who more worthy to give the brother a honurable death than a fellow brother.i know for instant my own son i love to bits id kill for him id defend him to the end but if it came down to him killing thousands of innocents and not listing to reason then id take it on my self to take him out id allways love him but its nor right what hes doing and rather than any old sod killing him hed get an honurable end like a worrior deserves.my own dog was as soft as anything i could wrestle it throw it but itll always stay loyal then any threat and she was a beast but not stupid so lastly a pshycho or butcher dosent make a extucutinor but a loyal intelligent worrior born to fight does

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

i think some people are missing the point here the wolves are savage and live to fight tough and cunning they are the perfect killers an extucnior dosent have to be crazy or psycho or hate to kill the whole point is they get the order to chop and the axe falls feelings put aside the space wolves are loyal they will do what is orded as for the point of defending brothers the whole point is there brothers blood thicker than water but when daddy makes a ruling it stands russ will protect his brothers citezens of the imperium to the grave but if so ordered and when all pleas fall on death ears hes got the stomach to do the deed what makes them so dangerouse is not the bloodlust which is a very good thing its being singleminded when a goal is in front of them intelligent enough to change tact and evolve tactics think out side the box and not just follow a rule book and there loyal they wouldnt think themselves above the emprorer getting corrupted by power and they have a heart they know whats right if say angron was accused of killing some guys russ being a good brother would defend him but finding out truths and reciving orders he would do it out of loyalty to big e and he will come to a conclussion that his brothers crime must be brought to justice and who more worthy to give the brother a honurable death than a fellow brother.i know for instant my own son i love to bits id kill for him id defend him to the end but if it came down to him killing thousands of innocents and not listing to reason then id take it on my self to take him out id allways love him but its nor right what hes doing and rather than any old sod killing him hed get an honurable end like a worrior deserves.my own dog was as soft as anything i could wrestle it throw it but itll always stay loyal then any threat and she was a beast but not stupid so lastly a pshycho or butcher dosent make a extucutinor but a loyal intelligent worrior born to fight does

 

I think those 10 lines required more than one period to make it a paragraph. :)

[Lord_Caerolion]

i think some people are missing the point here the wolves are savage and live to fight tough and cunning they are the perfect killers an extucnior dosent have to be crazy or psycho or hate to kill the whole point is they get the order to chop and the axe falls feelings put aside the space wolves are loyal they will do what is orded as for the point of defending brothers the whole point is there brothers blood thicker than water but when daddy makes a ruling it stands russ will protect his brothers citezens of the imperium to the grave but if so ordered and when all pleas fall on death ears hes got the stomach to do the deed what makes them so dangerouse is not the bloodlust which is a very good thing its being singleminded when a goal is in front of them intelligent enough to change tact and evolve tactics think out side the box and not just follow a rule book and there loyal they wouldnt think themselves above the emprorer getting corrupted by power and they have a heart they know whats right if say angron was accused of killing some guys russ being a good brother would defend him but finding out truths and reciving orders he would do it out of loyalty to big e and he will come to a conclussion that his brothers crime must be brought to justice and who more worthy to give the brother a honurable death than a fellow brother.i know for instant my own son i love to bits id kill for him id defend him to the end but if it came down to him killing thousands of innocents and not listing to reason then id take it on my self to take him out id allways love him but its nor right what hes doing and rather than any old sod killing him hed get an honurable end like a worrior deserves.my own dog was as soft as anything i could wrestle it throw it but itll always stay loyal then any threat and she was a beast but not stupid so lastly a pshycho or butcher dosent make a extucutinor but a loyal intelligent worrior born to fight does

 

...Wow... that was painful to read. I got about halfway before it began to blur together too much.

 

As for your points, we know that Russ isn't the "get the order to chop and the axe falls" kind of guy. He fought to defend the two missing Primarchs, seemed to be willing to fight harder to defend Lorgar, and even gave Magnus, his sworn rival who he'd seemingly like nothing more than to kill, a chance to surrender and not have to be killed.

 

Let's put it another way. If I wanted an "executioner" Legion, whos main reason for existing was to destroy any possible Traitor Legion, I wouldn't make them one of the smallest Legions, like the Wolves were. As people have said, they suffered horrendous casualties fighting the Thousand Sons, and that was against a Legion not much bigger than their small Legion, and with pretty much every single factor on their side. They aren't equipped to be an executioner, neither physically nor mentally.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

alright, tired of being quiet here.

 

on the invasion of prospero, yes the Wolves had control of the air. Magnus had sent his fleet far far away to not engage the Wolves. but air control wasnt as important as its being labeled as the TS has enough shields to nullify the worst of the orbital bombardment. so other than allowing the Wolves to land troops where they were needed, this advantage wasnt much of one.

 

now, while the Wolves had a contigent of the Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence, the TS had Prospero's human defenders and the only mention I can remember of a Titan. a psychically pimped up Titan at that. the Custodes were displayed at no more powerful than a Marine, and the SoS were killed with laughable ease. the TS then had the complete power of the Warp at their command, which the Wolves had no sure fire way of canceling that out...and while Magnus abstained from the fighting, his Legion were letting loose with every inch of chaos tainted power they possed, and then some. they tapped so deeply into the Warp they start to mutate in their ranks.

 

so lets pretend to have a more balanced view of what happened here, mmm'kay?

 

on Russ being a executioner. all i am going to say on this is that the bitterest kind of war is a civil war, and any being who is stubborn and as hateful as Russ is to traitors is going to end up dead. i am going to wait till i read (for myself) Abnett's book on this before i start complaining one way or another.

 

WLK

[Lord_Caerolion]

alright, tired of being quiet here.

 

on the invasion of prospero, yes the Wolves had control of the air. Magnus had sent his fleet far far away to not engage the Wolves. but air control wasnt as important as its being labeled as the TS has enough shields to nullify the worst of the orbital bombardment. so other than allowing the Wolves to land troops where they were needed, this advantage wasnt much of one.

It also allowed for the accurate location of enemy forces, as well as being able to provide data to the Wolf ground troops.

 

now, while the Wolves had a contigent of the Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence, the TS had Prospero's human defenders and the only mention I can remember of a Titan.

A Warhound titan, from what I remember. Powerful, yes, but not too much of a challenge for the full might of a Legion. Now, not saying it's going to be a walk in the park for the Wolves to take it down, but they'd certainly have the capability to take down a single scout Titan.

 

the Custodes were displayed at no more powerful than a Marine, and the SoS were killed with laughable ease.

Custodes who in other sources are able to cut Marines down with ease, and the SoS were more of a protective measure, in my opinion. Remember also that this is the Sons-biased account, so of course the enemy is going to be shown as weaker than they were.

 

the TS then had the complete power of the Warp at their command, which the Wolves had no sure fire way of canceling that out...and while Magnus abstained from the fighting, his Legion were letting loose with every inch of chaos tainted power they possed, and then some. they tapped so deeply into the Warp they start to mutate in their ranks.

Other than the protective influence of the Rune Priests the Wolves had brought with them.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you completely, but the Wolves got pretty mauled while taking out a similiarly-sized (i.e. smaller) Legion. How would they cope if they were ordered to take out the Word Bearers or Ultramarines? They simply don't have the infrastructure to take on a larger Legion, which makes them a poor choice for executioner. They're damn resourceful and ferocious, but they just don't have the capability to do what Abnett says they are.