DE Portal Shenanigans. =(

[thade]

From Amicus, righteously locked down there as it regards foul Xenos. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=215580

 

However, here it is our province to analyze these scumbags. So...how do we deal with this? Has anybody confronted it yet? How realistic is it, i.e. is the ability to do this in a DE army cheap, easy to get? How many can you get per army? What are you giving up to get them? Does LOS block deployment of the portals? (IE can they shoot one behind/through a tank?)

 

I haven't seen DE since before the update, back when my flamers and heavy bolters would shred their troops and transports, so I definitely have not seen this yet.

[The Wunup Kid]

They're 50 points each. They get dropped by squad leaders (I think), and become impassable terrain. They then act as the DE player's board edge for bringing on reinforcements.

 

From what I understand, it's possible to field 2-3 squads of warriors in raiders...first turn raiders roll forward, deploy, squads fleet and drop the portals. From there, wyches, elite wyches, and incubi can move out of them, fleet, and assault. Meaning that if deployed right there's little way to stop the dark eldar assaulty units from getting into hand to hand before you can shoot em.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Meaning that if deployed right there's little way to stop the dark eldar assaulty units from getting into hand to hand before you can shoot em.

 

Which, imo unfortunately (I prefer foot battles), makes MEC much more important. I'm no expert in fighting DE and I admit I barely know their rules at all, but it would seem to me that maneuverability is key to fighting this kind of gimicky trick. Drop pods also come to mind as a way to counter this kind of DE fighting style.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Up to six Haemonculi per army, each can take a portal. 35 points per portal.

 

The issue here is not that they deploy out of them, but more than when placed, they count as impassable and thus with six they can wall off an objective or some such. The GW template for it is also opaque and about an inch high, which means it has the potential to grant cover too.

 

My opinion is that if they really want to spend that many points to seal off a single objective (because that's the most they'll be able to) isn't really worth compromising that much of the army for (except for high-point games, at which point your opponent isn't going to care as much).

[greatcrusade08]

my last post on the amicus thread highlighted the nonsense of the 'trapping' tactic.. IIRC theres nothing stopping you moving out of impassable terrain, only that you cant move into it..

[Hellios]

my last post on the amicus thread highlighted the nonsense of the 'trapping' tactic.. IIRC theres nothing stopping you moving out of impassable terrain, only that you cant move into it..

 

But surely you can only do that with something like jump troops or skimmers... otherwiase you have to walk the long way round... I don't see anyone really trying this... and only maybe on a table corners deployment when someone has kept his army in reserve can I see it actually working well... to trap peoople... speed bump maybe... but trap no...

[Disruptor_fe404]

I see the issue as less because they drop the portal on your units (fairly certain it isn't allowed), and more that they cordon off an objective or one of your vehicles.

 

Again, I don't see much point in bothering because that's a lot of points to neutralise or secure something and it may or may not work.

[thade]

If the thing they secure is a Land Raider and it's contents, that's apparently 150ish points of wargear that prevents me from using the LR and the guys inside of it, AND they can deploy from there. That sounds like a nightmare to me. They need to either not be Impassible or have a limit 2 per army or something. :) What's the maximum they can take? Six? That seems a bit too many.

[breng77]

I suppose they could place one on each side of your land raider to trap it, but that means the have to run right up to your land raider, to do so. At which point you shoot up all of the guys that trapped you can kill all of them. Which is more points than the land raider.

[Tanhausen]

1.- 3 portals + 3 hemonculi (footslogging) are something like 250 points. Add transport for that... which is probably around another 150 points.

 

2.- All 3 should have to set the portal at the same time AND set a transport behind in order to lock you out. To be honest... if they do catch you in that situation, you DESERVE to be blocked xD

 

3.- As for the impassable terrain thing...I need to check the BRB but I believe you can't end you movement in it... but does it say somewhere you can't start your movement in it? So it would have no effect in the way suggested aka unit killer/immobilizer.

[Captain Malachi]

Guys, being able to start movement in impassable terrain doesn't matter. And we can't anyway, I'm fairly sure you can't move in impassable terrain, otherwise we could easily just move through it as long as we don't end in it, right? I don't think I'm explaining this very clearly, but my point is it blocks movement, whether you started in it or not. It's not just the edges of the terrain that block movement, it's the whole thing.

 

Of course it's still blatant rules-lawyering, broken as hell and there's no way I'd allow it, but the ways around it you guys have come up with don't work.

[chaplain belisarius]

any one who tries this is a right saddo...:P

[thade]

Guys, being able to start movement in impassable terrain doesn't matter. And we can't anyway, I'm fairly sure you can't move in impassable terrain, otherwise we could easily just move through it as long as we don't end in it, right?

 

This is incorrect. The BRB states you cannot move IN TO Impassible Terrain. It says no where that you cannot move OUT OF it.

 

Probably because they figure "they can't move into it, then they'd never have an opportunity to move out or through it." Meaning they never thought they'd give a model the ability to IMPOSE Impassible Terrain on another model. Something tells me their FAQ will prevent them from doing just that, and a few other of these things (ie something like "no two portals can be placed within 12" of one another" or something).

[Disruptor_fe404]

Tannhausen has it basically. Using it to kill models won't fly, but using it to block is fair game. And again, I say it's a lot of points to block off one unit (because that's how many they're going to get, unless they pin you to the edge of the table, in which case they could get a second or third).

 

I also don't think it needs an FAQ nerf by imposing a limit or proximity requirement, though I would welcome clarification on whether it can be dropped on top of another unit. But that's just me.

[Captain Malachi]

You could always argue that since you were there before the impassable terrain, you weren't technically in it, and so that first move to try and move out would require you to first move 'in to', and with it surrounding you you wouldn't be able to move. But this isn't the rules section and I highly doubt anyone would seriously let someone use this in a game, so I'm going to leave it.

 

As for blocking off objectives and stuff, I agree with those who say let 'em. It's way too many points to be worth it.