Fixing Thousand Sons

[Ethrion]

Yeah, it is quite a lot to take in at once. LOL!

 

Just a couple of amendments:

 

1) Sorcerers take psychic tests on 3D6 and choose whichever 2 dice they want (not necessarily the two lowest).

 

2) If a 9 is rolled for a psychic test (9 being the 'sacred' number) then the sorcerer can cast an additional power immediately (it can be in the same phase but cannot be the same power).

[Frater Uriah]

Yeah, it is quite a lot to take in at once. LOL!

 

Just a couple of amendments:

 

1) Sorcerers take psychic tests on 3D6 and choose whichever 2 dice they want (not necessarily the two lowest).

 

2) If a 9 is rolled for a psychic test (9 being the 'sacred' number) then the sorcerer can cast an additional power immediately (it can be in the same phase but cannot be the same power).

 

This is excellent. :( Now, based on current resitrictions, this would only apply to actual Sorcerers, unless we opt to allow Aspiring Sorcerers to take Familiars, an extra power, etc (still normally permitted to use one per turn, unless the 9 roll above is used). This sort of revision could make me forgive their current, somewhat exorbitant, cost.

[Frater Uriah]

Has anybody seen this?

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...ns_Warcoven.pdf

[Cosmic Archmage]

Yes, I played it a couple of time. I don't think the cool part is the Storm of Change thing, but rather having a whole squad of Aspiring Sorcerers to put in a Land Raider and wreck face in CC with them. Especially if you take a Chaos Altar for a strategic asset. And Fateweaver. "drool"

 

Oh and Rubric Termies certainly are nice, but I don't think they are that useful in this form (they can't take any wargear).

[Frater Uriah]

Yes, I played it a couple of time. I don't think the cool part is the Storm of Change thing, but rather having a whole squad of Aspiring Sorcerers to put in a Land Raider and wreck face in CC with them. Especially if you take a Chaos Altar for a strategic asset. And Fateweaver. "drool"

 

Oh and Rubric Termies certainly are nice, but I don't think they are that useful in this form (they can't take any wargear).

You know, in a statement of threat to one of my opponents, I didn't even mention Storm of Change: rather I focused on the whole squad of Aspiring Sorcerers (Chosen, indeed!) and what horrors I could inflict upon his poor Dark Eldar.

 

While they are as versatile as their power-armoured brethren with their weapons loadout, Rubrics in TDA look awesome, their 2+, 4++ is nothing to sneeze at, and they have Inferno Bolts, which I love. I gave them a Sorcerer in TDA and am prepared to let 'em rip.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Just thought, how does everyone think about Inferno heavy bolter?

Up to two Rubrics in the squad can replace their boltguns with Heavy bolters for 10pts each, because of the inferno bolts, these have the following profile:

Range:36 S:5 AP:2, Heavy3, Rending

The AP 2 and rending is basically going on the idea that the Sorcerers are able to use far more powerful enchantments on the Heavy Bolter shells than on the regular bolter ones.

I personally don't like the idea that the Sorcerers would not find a way for the rubrics to use heavy/special weapons, since the sorcerers use the rubrics as bodyguards, and with things like the Sister's of Silence and the Tyranids shadow in the warp around, believe they would try to make their rubrics be able to use heavy weapons so that if they do encounter these things, it ain't all other, plus some sorcerers, particulary Ahrimanites would proberbly want to try and have there rubrics perform as close to how they did in the Great Crusade. Personally I think allowing Thousand Sons Squads to take heavy weapons along with sorcerers could help give them more of specific nich (Plague marines compete with them on toughness, and it's not really fair that we should have an advantage (sorcerers) that most enemies can take something that renders it useless (Runes of Warding, rune staffs, I'm looking at you) whilst Plague marine don't lose their toughness against flame based weapons (Zombies burn, so zombie marines should) Noise marines don't lose their high I or Besrkers their WS, so Thousand Sons having enchanted heavy weapons could give them a nich of long range firefights, whilst PM having close range firefight (Coutesy of their access to special weapons), also it would give a nice sort ironic mirror against the Space wolves Long fangs (Pack Leader= sorcerer, Long Fangs with heavy weapons =rubrics with heavy weapons, (We would still have the bolter armed rubrics as well though). could it work? If so I have a few ideas kicking around for the encahntments on other heavy weapons.

[Ethrion]

I must admit that recently I've been surprised with how decently my Thousand Sons have fared in battle. Taking 3 rubric squads of 9/10/10 led by Ahriman in rhinos backed up with obliterators has gotten me 2 solid wins - against a White Scar / Raven Guard coalition and a Space Wolf army. Before that a mutual annihilation vs. another Space Wolf army in which Ahriman actually killed Logan Grimnar!

 

EDIT: Just played an apoc game with Thousand Sons today with IG ally and against BA and SW, my 3 rubric squads and obliterators were right up front in the no man's land between the two forces. SO much firepower was raining down on them all game and they took it and weathered it like utter champions! The enemy's titan fired vulkan mega bolter and turbo laser destructor shots at the 3 squads all game not to mention lascannons from land raiders and plasma from devastator squads and I lasted 7 turns before the last marine was felled. The 4+ inv is GODLIKE! One last remaining sorcerer took 7 mega bolter shells a turbo laser and random other fire and survived it all!

[hummus]

a bit of threadnomancy

but it just hit me why dont we just use the rules they have for wratih guard

the rules about if there is no warlock in the squad then they do nothing if you roll a 1 on a d6

the sorcerors could be purely upgrade characters and you could use the tsons better in close combat maybe down grade there initiative a little to represent there slowness

[Frater Uriah]

a bit of threadnomancy

but it just hit me why dont we just use the rules they have for wratih guard

the rules about if there is no warlock in the squad then they do nothing if you roll a 1 on a d6

the sorcerors could be purely upgrade characters and you could use the tsons better in close combat maybe down grade there initiative a little to represent there slowness

In absence of an Aspiring Sorcerer, Rubrics move per the Sorcerer Commands special rule in their entry in the codex, which represents the zombie-walk pretty effectively: if you roll a 1, a 1" move is going pretty slowly, anyway. The Rubrics already have the lowest initiative of the CSM Troops choices, so I don't think it does anybody any favours to make them slower in CC.

 

How would your suggestions fix the Thousand Sons, again?

[hummus]

if the wg have a warlock attached they move normally

that is my idea for the ksons if they have a sorcerer attached they move normally ie not slow and purposeful

and if they dont have a sorcerer attached then they roll a dice on a 2 to 6 they move and fight normally

on a 1 they dont move and are hit automatically in cc

so most of the time they move normally even if they dont have a sorcerer attached

[Phosis]

S&P keeps with the ghost theme though, and I sort of like the idea of a (very) frustrated sorcerer cursing on the heels of the rubrics who keep tripping over their feet because he has to physically direct them in which way to walk. Sounds silly but that's just my opinion

[hummus]

how about slow and purposeful on 3d6

odds being you get to move 6 inches of 91/216

[Justcar]

I'll just post up what we wrote down in here. It's all very rough and definitely needs a lot of work and alteration done to it before it can function properly. Plus, we wont have all of the powers we wrote down, we just kept writing them until we couldn't think of anymore. We wanted to make up lots in order to have plenty to chose from. I'm sure some are outright overpowered and some are rubbish LOL!

 

 

Thousand Sons

 

If you take a pure Thousand Sons army you may take Aspiring Sorcerers as Heavy Support.

 

Sorcerers hold a 6" 'command' range over rubric marines. When a rubric marine squad is with 6" of a sorcerer they act as normal. If outside of 6" they revert to their automaton state which means they are subject to the night fighting rule, they must stay stationary and cannot run either. At the very end of the player turn (after close combat has been resolved) roll a D3 and lose that amount of rubric marines as if they have fallen apart.

 

 

Rubric Marine

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv

3 4 4 4 1 2 1 10 3+

 

No: 5-20

Weapons: Bolter, Krak

Special: Fearless, Slow and Purposeful

 

 

Aspiring Sorcerer

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv

4 4 4 4 1 4 1 10 3+

 

No: 1-4

Weapons: Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak, Close Combat Weapon

Special: Fearless, Relentless

 

Aspiring Sorcerers are basically the heavy weapon squads of a Thousand Sons army. They only know a handful of spells of which 1 needs to be chosen pre-game. These spells have the same stat line as mundane weapons such as lascannons, plasma cannons, heavy bolters etc. A squad of Aspiring Sorcerers must maintain squad coherency with each other but can attach to a squad of rubric marines. The count as having the 6" command range.

 

 

Sorcerer

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv

5 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 3+

 

No: 1-5

Weapons: Bolt Pistol, Krak, Force Weapon

Special: Independent character

 

Can take up to 5 sorcerers per elite slot. However, they can operate independently and do not need to maintain squad coherency. Cannot take more than 1 sorcerer from the same cult. Each cult sorcerer brings with them a passive ability which applies to whichever squad the sorcerer is currently attached to. Each sorcerer can target a separate enemy or friendly unit for the purposes of spell casting. If they want to charge they must charge one of the enemy units that was targeted in the shooting phase by one of the sorcerers. (See Codex: Daemons for the proper definition of how this all works).

 

Corvidae: Re-roll enemy's successful cover-saves.

Pyrae: Bolters use Special Issue Ammunition (see C:SM).

Raptora: Revive D3 rubric marines on 1D6 4+ at start of player's movement phase.

Athanaeans: Allows squad to move in the assault phase if possible. 2D6 pick highest.

Pavoni: 4+ invulnerable save.

 

All sorcerer powers are Assault weapons unless specified. Thousand Son Sorcerers take psychic tests on 3D6 and pick the two lowest.

 

Perils of the warp

 

Double 1:

1-2 Dead no save allowed

3-4 Spawn

5-6 No effect

 

Double 6:

1-4 Dead no save allowed

5 Spawn

6 Spell goes off on target unit and casting unit.

 

NOTE: A lot of the details are missing from the spells, such as things like which phase the power is cast in, whether it is a 'heavy' weapon etc. These would be added in later, we just haven't got around to it yet.

 

Corvidae

1) Seize initiative on a 4+. (pre-game)

 

2) 3+ cover save to vehicle after enemy has hit and penetrated. 24"

 

3) Re-deploy D3 units after deployment and infiltrators. (pre-game)

 

4) Before friendly IC dies can choose to remove him from play. IC cannot attack that turn but does not count for kill points or any combat resolution.

 

5) Move up to D3 objectives after enemy has deployed.

 

6) Remove 1 objective by end of T3

 

7) Reduce cover save by 1. Unlimited range.

 

8) Warptime

 

9) Sorcerer becomes I10 until start of his next turn.

 

 

Pyrae

 

1) Warp Fire: Template, wound on 4+, AP3

 

2) Coruscating flame: Base to base, S3 + D3, AP 4

 

3) Wall of fire: Anywhere up to 12" from the caster draw a line up to 12" long. Cannot see through the flame. Models moving through the flame take a S5, AP 4 hit each. Vehicles hit on rear armour.

 

4) Fireball: 24", blast, S6, AP3

 

5) Conflagration: 24", large blast, S4, AP5

 

6) Draw a line 24" from the sorcerer, must have line of sight to first target. All enemy non-vehicle models in the line suffer 1 S10 AP2 hit. Friendly models are ignored.

 

7) 24", any friendly vehicle suffering from a shaken or stunned result can be controlled and used as normal.

 

8) 12", enemy vehicle can be controlled by the sorcerer.

 

 

Raptora

 

1) 24" S4 AP5 Assault 4

 

2) 24" S6 AP4 Assault 2 Rending

 

3) 18" S8 AP- Assault 1. No armour or cover saves allowed

 

4) 18" S10 AP1 Assault 1 Lance

 

5) 12" target any enemy unit or vehicle (including immobilized) and reposition anywhere within 24" of the original location including difficult and/or dangerous terrain but not off the table

 

6) 18" enemy must take a pinning test on Ld7 or under

 

7) 24" S1 + D6 continuous. Perils of the warp if you roll a double.

 

8) 12", line of sight. 2D6 equal or higher than the weapon's strength being targeted for it to fire at it's own rear armour.

 

9) Enemy models in base to base strike at I1.

 

10) Unlimited range, 3 blast or 1 large blast, roll 1 D6 for the scatter, for the duration of the enemy turn treat the area under the template(s) as difficult and dangerous.

 

11) Range 18", enemy units WS and BS reduced to 1 until start of psykers next turn.

 

 

Athanaeans

 

1) 24" Enemy non-vehicle unit must pas a Ld test or fall back 2D6

 

2) 24" Enemy non-vehicle unit must pas a Ld or not be able to shoot or assault in the next phase. It may move and run as normal.

 

3) Unlimited range, all shrouded or concealed units are seen as normal.

 

4) 18" enemy vehicle only. If successful all guns must fire at nearest enemy's friendly unit.

 

5) 24" all enemy units must roll for night fighting to see the unit.

 

6) 24" all enemy units must pass a Ld test before they assault target unit. If they fail they may not assault.

 

7) 24" Target enemy unit acts as if it is moving through difficult terrain.

 

 

Pavoni

 

1) 24" boosts kine shields to 3+

 

2) 24" 2D6 hits, S5 AP6

 

3) 48" Assault X (keep rolling D6 to determine amount of hits, stop rolling once you roll a double) S4 AP-

 

4) 36" S9 AP1 Blast. Will always scatter full amount if arrow is rolled.

 

5) 24", enemy invulnerable shields are reduced by 1 to a minimum of no save

 

6) 12" grants a friendly vehicle a 4+ invulnerable save for duration of enemy turn.

 

7) Any model in base to base with the sorcerer sufferes D3 S4 AP5 wounds with armour saves allowed.

 

excellent work!

 

Though I will point out that (from A Thousand Sons) that after Arhiman's rubric, the TSons could use all cult powers equally.

[Hellios]

I just had another thought... to the getting psychic powers off... what if instead of having anti-psyker abilities we could stop hoods and so on... it wouldn't work on every unit but if we had a special rule like...

 

If a psyker takes an action to stop one of the thousand sons powers (so it has to be an agressive abillity like psychic hoods or rune staffs where the enemy psyker can choose to do it rather than a passive abillity like the shadow in the warp or runes of warding that just makes it more difficult) and they fail to do so then that psyker suffers a perils of the warp attack.

 

 

I imagine this as the the 1kson psyker or his daemonic allies attacking the enmy psyker as he reaches into the warp to try and stop the 1kson psyker. Now this isn't an auto-pass and won't work against everyone but you now have space marines of various sorts thinking how badly do I want to stop that psychic power? Assuming that both psykers are leadership 10 then even a Rune priest who has the best chance is at a 50/50... and with two wounds and in most cases I would imagine no invulnerable saves do I really want to risk my psyker blowing up to shut down one of the enemies powers...

[Evil eyeball]

one minor change i want to see is Warp time that affects the unit a sorcerer is joined to for All Chaos not just MOT

Think about this.

In non MOT Cases it simply would allow a player to take 2 sorcerers with warp time or Two Daemon Princes with warp time and attach them to 2 squads in the army.

Now I came upon what happens if a person took 2 DP's/sorcerers with no mark and put them in squads of berzerkers or other khornate units. Well as fluff dictates we simply Amend mark of Khorne to prevent units with it from being affected by FRIENDLY psychic powers as models with mark of khorne would kill a sorcerer trying to boost them simply on the "I HATE MAGIC" basis.

 

SO a Nurgle player might have at most 2 squads of Warptime havocs with IoN or plague marines

OR a Slaanesh Player might have 2 Squads of Noise marines with Warp time

 

Yet this would require his dedicating his 2 hq slots to support and using up the only power for each on buying warptime

 

Now MOT Sorcerers are a different beast, This would allow Rubrics to re-roll all to hit/wound rolls if sorcerer suceeds warp time

And in HQ sorcs can still have other power to boot.

[Ethrion]

Honestly, I think warptime as a squad wide effect would be pretty broken. Rubric marines with re-roll to hit and wound with AP3 bolters? That's craziness! LOL

 

Oh and after seeing some of the broken things that the GK codex can do I think some of the powers I came up with before need to be upgraded haha! For example, maybe now the Corvidae initiative roll on 4+ is also re-rollable :D