The Godhammer

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I got one of these off a friend a while ago, it needs some work doing to it, but I was wondering how people find them on the battle field.

 

Because of its multiple lascannons i was wondering if it can fill the same sort of role as a combi-pred? It's loadout means that i don't feel like i have to throw an assault unit in it and that a tactical could sit happily in its mobile fortress.

 

However i look at them and wonder in the 250 point investment is worth it, or recently, i've had musings that maybe it could work in tandem with a crusader or something (a little crazy perhaps, but 1 long range land raider and 1 short range one seems like a nice idea at 1500 points). So i was wondering if it was worth ever using in a similar fashion to a combi-pred or useful in a different fashion, worth it all, or worth taking more?!

[Jackelope King]

Alright, the skinny on the Godhammer (the standard Land Raider):

 

It's confused.

 

It's got the guns to sit back and fire and do a fair job for most of the game. It doesn't do a bad job rolling around at 6" all game either. And it makes a squad inside really hard to hurt.

 

But it also has that Assault Ramp, and it can carry Assault Terminators, and that is always nice.

 

So it's decent when it's putzing around and shooting is las-cannons. And it's decent when it's dropping off face-smashers. Problem is that those two things are usually at odds, and doing one is inherently contradictory to the other. Sure, it can roll up, power of the machine spirit off a las shot into a transport, then have a modest shot of opening it up for the Terminators inside to have for lunch, but a Crusader with a Multi-Melta on top can do the same thing, only better, and then have the firepower afterwards to make another nearby exposed squad bleed.

 

And the price needs to be considered too. It takes a big points investment (Terminators + 250 points) or a big Force Organization Chart investment (250 points + a Heavy Support slot) to put it on the table. Not crippling, mind you, but a serious consideration, especially when you can lay down a Predator with two Las-Cannon sponsons for the price tag.

 

It's very good in the role of camping a home objective, mind you. It can camp midfield pretty well too and will get some nice side-armor shots as the game goes on, and it'll be hard to remove for any army that doesn't get fast melta. But there's the rub: a Land Raider Crusader full of Assault Terminators is a strongly calculated risk. Some foes can't bring enough fast melta in fast enough to stop one Crusader from reaching their lines, and many armies have trouble bringing enough fast melta to deal with two. A Crusader's durability is increased by its speed of delivery: once it drops off Assault Terminators, its threat-profile drops and the opponent is less likely to invest melta in opening it up.

 

A standard Land Raider with a scoring squad inside (whether Tacticals or Scouts) does not require the same sense of urgency, and is less likely to scare the opponent quite as much. And since it will just be camping, most opponents will get more tries to whack the thing, thus decreasing its durability (as its threat-profile will likely remain the same throughout the game, unless it gets immobilized away from an objective or has some of its weaponry blasted off). It's an abstract thing, but palpable in games where they're on the table.

 

So it's not a bad choice at all. I'm not saying that. But it does hamper your ability to put more threats on the table, which is one of the tenets of 40k. Having a small number of units on the table hampers your ability to remove enemy threats, so you'll need to account for this when you build a list around 2 Land Raiders (and yeah, I really do recommend running at least 2, and only really trying for it at greater than 1500 points... Land Raiders require a significant amount of firepower to down, so they really reap the benefits of Lanchester's Square Law).

[DarkGuard]

The normal Land Raider is one that I haven't fielding yet, and it isn't seen around my LGS much either. However, I do wonder on how I would use it, and have heard some good things about it. Firstly, you have two high strength, accurate shots which can punch through vehicles, and to an extent it has anti-infantry covered through it's heavy bolter. Furthermore, it has a big transport capacity, only being beaten by the Crusader.

 

OK, its anti-tank isn't as good as a Rifleman or a MM/HF speeder, and its anti-infantry doesn't quite compare to a Typhoon or a thunderfire. It isn't amazing as a transport vehicle either as you want all its guns firing for that points investment, but the point is its a jack of all trades, master of none. It also has a handy ability in being able to move at combat speed and fire at different targets, meaning it can fill in a roll as light vehicle hunter, and is able to pop more vehicles in a turn than a combi-pred (provided you have a little luck).

 

Points wise though the Typhoon is perhaps the better 'jack of all trades' vehicle, and although the Land Raider is singularly tougher than a Typhoon, it suffers if taken alone as every meltagun is going to be angled for it. Despite this, I have considered using it in higher points game instead of the Razorback my small combat squad uses at the moment. I can put that squad in the Land Raider, allowing me to give meaningful support fire, while sitting a scoring AV14 bunker on an objective. Certainly one to think about, but it has to be used more cleverly than its cousins the Crusader and the Redeemer.

 

EDIT: Jackelope King just made me remember of points investment. It is pricy, and while it can take out two vehicles per turn, you can more reliably take out two vehicles per turn by spending the points on two combi-preds or two Rifleman dreads. Of course, if your strapped for force org slots but not points it could be worth a look though.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

*Pedantic Hat*

 

It's actually a Phobos Pattern Landraider.

 

Godhammer refers to the pattern of it's primary armament.

 

/Pedantic Hat

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Yeah i've been wondering if it can do more or less the same job as 1 single combi-pred (as thats how I would run a predator) but i dont have one. I have this land raider which i got from a friend and a bit reduced in price (largely cos its covered in heretical icons he melted on! So im working on removing them...) but as you say its ability to carry assault units and having long range weaponry make it a rather contradictory tank.

 

Admittedly its a rather large points investment, especially since its practically double the cost of the combi-pred it could be doing the job of, im just hoping that the all round AV 14 and troop carry ability make it effective.

 

I admit putting a tactical in it isn't exactly making sure the AV 14 is shielding something massively useful, but I would hope that it could roll onto any objective it wanted really and then just take it over...

 

I wonder about 2 of them because id use godhammer to open up tanks and transports and then use a crusader to kill off the now on foot models and dump a squad onto them

[chaplain belisarius]

Personally i agree with all the above the standard land raider is a very confused beast. Now, the crusader, theres a good tank...:)

[Meatman]

What I do when I take land raiders (which is rare because I stick to Raven Guard fluff), is stick a combat scout squad in there, barebones or maybe with a fist. Scoring, (cheapish), and can assault out of the raider if something comes closer to threaten it. And thanks to the new FAQ, the scout squad can scout move into it even if it's bought as a dedicated transport for something else.

 

And the whole time it's sitting back blasting stuff with it's ridiculously accurate lascannons.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

And the whole time it's sitting back blasting stuff with it's ridiculously accurate lascannons.

 

This is what I use mine for. I'll stick a Tac Squad in there to make it scoring, sit on an OBJ, and plink what I can at long range with the lascannons. Its point cost is (lightly) diffused by the fact that I don't need to buy another Rhino, though I wouldn't call that one of its greatest selling points by any stretch.

[LardO'Blood]

I love mine! It is sooo much better at killing MCs then a crusader or redeemer is. I can also camp an objective with it if it has a tactical squad.

Here are two guides that have a bunch of stuff on Godhammers:

A DA tactica, scroll down to post #5

A Grey Knights tactica, do Ctrl-F and type "Land Raider". It should be the first highlighted thing.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Thank you all for the replies, Im glad the land raider gets some nice feedback, its more or less what i'd expect with those lascannons! Thanks particularly Lard O'Blood for digging up those articles :huh:

 

 

I see that they often get told to run in pairs, now is that just Godhammer pairs, or any pairs....plus thats 1/3 of an army at 1500 points, units inside excluded, if it were 2 tacticals thats almost the other 1/3, so then you get maybe a HQ and some other gizmos and you've hit the limit! It seems a little....strange...

[templargdt]

I keep switching back and forth between the Phobos and Redeemer with Multimelta. If I feel like I've got enough templates in my army and not enough long range MC hurt, I'll use the Phobos. If I feel like I'm lacking in templates, I'll go redeemer.

 

Jackelope King gave a good response. Where I will respectfully disagree is on the two raider theory. In 2000 points I run one LR unless I'm using my Grey Knights. Sure two is better than one, but I'd rather go 2x Combipredator than 1x LR anything below 2500. At 2500, sure 2x LR with assault terminators FTW. Below 2500 2xLR is too many points for my blood.

[Jackelope King]

I see that they often get told to run in pairs, now is that just Godhammer pairs, or any pairs....plus thats 1/3 of an army at 1500 points, units inside excluded, if it were 2 tacticals thats almost the other 1/3, so then you get maybe a HQ and some other gizmos and you've hit the limit! It seems a little....strange...

I really dislike Land Raiders at or below 1500. Heck, I often have a hard time making them really hum in a 2000 point list. The 2 Land Raider rule, both for your benefit and in response to templargdt, is to overcome the common weakness of mono-rock armies in general. In friendly games, yeah, they can work (my lone Biker command squad can be loads of fun), but one rock can be dealt with. Two or more become a struggle for most armies. I still prefer the approach of Multiple Small Units to an army heavy on rocks, as I believe firmly that that it's threats that win games. Rock armies can still win and be good, but they tend to go down in flames when an enemy is capable of blocking and they lose significant chunks of their threats.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but as I have 1 godhammer and don't have the cash for multiple units i guess its standing in for a combi pred...it just pays another 120 points for the armour and transport capacity...

 

If i cash was no object i'd probably opt for many small units to maximise both model number (larger number of attacks field wide) and make sure target saturation was more efficient. I agree that many small units can be very difficult as they are far more numerous. 2 Tanks seem like they could fall to pieces from dedicated weaponry, even if they were AV 14!

 

But I think if im going to run it, I just don't know if i can justify two in the same army. This is partly because I dislike running multiples of the same unit (I like a bit of everything really!) but also because the land raider is just such a hefty points investment that 2 of them seem like they'll be taking up far too much of an army for my own liking.

 

So i'm looking at the beast going solo!

[templargdt]

Well, I've had great success this way. I run a single LR (either Phobos or Redeemer) from 1500-2K (I don't ever really play below 1500.) The LR transports my HQ, delivers my close combat strength and can destroy a fair amount of stuff.

 

I lose the single raider a lot. In my last tournament it got destroyed twice, immobilized once out of five games. That doesn't bother me. Like Warpangel says, everything dies. I'm either delivering assault terminators with the LR (which will kill a lot more than the point cost of the LR/AT combo) or I'm hunting the appropriate units (troops for LRR, light-medium armor for the LR.) If I'm worried about losing the LR, a rhino gives a LR a cover save when you place it properly. I'd rather have one LR/AT combo and several other items (Land Speeders, Vindicators, combipreds) through 2K points. They offer different kinds of threats than two land raiders, which I find more useful.

 

YMMV.

[deepstrike]

Khârn + berzerkers in it having pushed into the midfield blasting away at transports

[7Thunders]

I own a godhammer. I run it right alongside

my tri-las pred. :(

Now i seem to have the same problem.

i can never figure out what i want to put in

it :yes: I don't own any assault termies.

 

So alot of times i will just use it as a big pain

in my opponents arse.

 

one of the reasons why i like alot of las cannons

in my force is for the simple reason of: i am gonna

Damn sure hit what i am aiming at.

[spartan249]

I love my LR. The capability of the vehicle to engage enemies from a long distance away is a very welcome ability. It gives the vehicle versatility. It can perform both roles that you might require from it in the missions drawn. In terms of pure killing power, the LR has the greatest anti-vehicle capability of the three main variants (Including the Multi-melta, maximum engagement range accounted for) and the worst anti-infantry capability of the three variants. Taking this into consideration when choosing which LR to use is very important, as you're paying quite the premium for the killing power the LR provides. However, for someone who requires the best versatility out of the LR, I'd suggest to them the standard LR as their weapon of choice.

 

In one game, you might require a long range gunship to ferry and protect your troops from sniper fire. The LR is about the best vehicle in the game in that aspect. AV14 is very difficult to kill from range, and it has the means to retaliate with the PotMS and the lascannons. In addition, it can fire both lascannons after moving 6", keeping you moving while sending shots down range.

 

In another game, you might require a ferry for your assault forces. The LR works for that role as well. Lascannons give you a chance to demechanize the opponent while at stand-off range, and provide a large zone of engagement, reducing the movement required to close to engage.

 

In yet another game, you might require both. You keep the LR at stand-off range for 2 turns shooting lascannons down range, then send it rocketing down the range to engage targets with their cargo once the big threats to armor are destroyed.

 

My opinion.

[LardO'Blood]

I always take a land raider over 600 points (Good thing I don't play Eldar much! :lol: ). At 1500 or higher I usually play a Crusader and a Godhammer.

They are essential in my army because I don't own any predator, vindicator, whirlwind or devastator models so my fire support comes from land raiders, AC dreadnoughts, terminators and from heavy weapons in tactical squads. Probably not the best system. :) I find it is important to bring at least three armored targets at 1500, usually double dreads and a land raider or double land raiders and a dread.

Next battle I'm gonna try outflanking 5 LC terminators in a Godhammer with Korsarro for uber MC killing! Furious charge outflanking LC terminators? Not even Templars can do that!

[Dudley Nightshade]

All of the great responses in this thread have got me thinking. Has anyone tried a Phobos Landraider loaded up with five standard Terminators with a CML? I know that's not an especially popular unit, but it seems it complements the LR in almost all roles:

1. Against armoured targets, you get two more krak missiles at the same range to make the LR even more effective.

2. Against squishy units, where the LR is out of its depth, five storm bolters plus a CML can lay down more firepower than a tactical squad, and if needs be can assault after.

3. If you are camping the LR, it will force your opponent to send his tank hunting assets on a suicide mission (assuming they need to get close, e.g., melta squads), or commit a lot of force to shift the campers.

4. It also complements the biggest weakness of the Terminator squad by making them mobile, and can act as rolling cover where none might otherwise be available.

 

Aside from the massive points investment, am I overlooking any downsides?

[DarkGuard]

All of the great responses in this thread have got me thinking. Has anyone tried a Phobos Landraider loaded up with five standard Terminators with a CML? I know that's not an especially popular unit, but it seems it complements the LR in almost all roles:

1. Against armoured targets, you get two more krak missiles at the same range to make the LR even more effective.

2. Against squishy units, where the LR is out of its depth, five storm bolters plus a CML can lay down more firepower than a tactical squad, and if needs be can assault after.

3. If you are camping the LR, it will force your opponent to send his tank hunting assets on a suicide mission (assuming they need to get close, e.g., melta squads), or commit a lot of force to shift the campers.

4. It also complements the biggest weakness of the Terminator squad by making them mobile, and can act as rolling cover were none might otherwise be available.

 

Aside from the massive points investment, am I overlooking any downsides?

 

Personally I'd only do that if I doubled the squad to ten men with two CMLs, and then moved a small combat squad into the LR first turn if its a DT and I need to save a heavy support space.

 

Reason being that while a Terminator squad with CMLs would complement the LR, the LR wouldn't necessarily complement them. One of the main advantages of a Terminator squad over Assault Terminators is their ability to shoot and assault, rather than just assault. They don't need to be in assault to be effective, and thereby don't necessitate the inclusion of a LR to make them effective. The LR would make them more mobile, but then chances are you're only going to move it 6" anyway, they can move that far, but while in the LR they can't fire, so you cut down on their effectiveness. Part of their preference over Assault Terminators is that they cost less than 5 with a LR (or around the same), but you have more men that can contribute in every phase.

 

LRs want units in them good for combat, and so therefore you pick Honour Guard, Assault Terminators, Vanguard etc, which don't need shooting to be effective and need to be in combat quickly. The LR lets them move faster and get into combat easier while providing protection, not bad. However, for transporting your assault units into combat you don't want a Phobos pattern LR, which benefits more as a firebase unit sitting backfield and spreading fire with its Godhammer LCs. So therefore you're going to take the LRR or LRC, depending on what you want supporting your unit, anti-MEQ or torrent of fire.

 

Therefore IMO the best unit to stick in the LR is a small, bog standard Tactical or Scout squad, thereby making best use of the rules which allow vehicles to count as scoring if they have a scoring unit in them. You therefore have a useful backfield AV14 unit with good long-ranged firepower and the ability to claim objectives.

 

It's a nice idea, but not the best idea IMO. You can find better units to fill that roll, such as Assault Termys in a LRR, or Assault Marines even, backed up by rifleman Dreads and combi-preds.

[templargdt]

All of the great responses in this thread have got me thinking. Has anyone tried a Phobos Landraider loaded up with five standard Terminators with a CML? I know that's not an especially popular unit, but it seems it complements the LR in almost all roles:

1. Against armoured targets, you get two more krak missiles at the same range to make the LR even more effective.

2. Against squishy units, where the LR is out of its depth, five storm bolters plus a CML can lay down more firepower than a tactical squad, and if needs be can assault after.

3. If you are camping the LR, it will force your opponent to send his tank hunting assets on a suicide mission (assuming they need to get close, e.g., melta squads), or commit a lot of force to shift the campers.

4. It also complements the biggest weakness of the Terminator squad by making them mobile, and can act as rolling cover where none might otherwise be available.

 

Aside from the massive points investment, am I overlooking any downsides?

 

I've thought about doing this, since I bought a terminator squad and I love the models. The problem is my assault terminators are basically my only real close combat power in most games. The storm shields on the TH/SS terminators just dominate. If the terminator squads heavy weapon came free with the squad, I'd consider it.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Templargt, did you ever think of taking a Tactical Termie squad withOUT the heavy weapon? If they're being carted around in a Land Raider, then they don't exactly have a need for the heavy weapon.

[templargdt]

Frankly, no. If I'm buying the terminators I definintely want the heavy weapon, it dramatically enhances the flexibility of the squad. There is a list of stuff I want assault terminators to take care of for me, including:

 

- Monsterous Creatures except the Swarmlord.

- Plague Marines

- Greater Demons

- Blood angels with feel no pain

- Mephiston

 

Changing out assault terminators for standard terminators is only a wash against the plague marines; in every other case I want the storm shields. The CML or AC on the terminators helps slightly alleviate the lack of storm shields by helping me take wounds off things, but in the end I need something that will stop a Trygon or Mephiston cold. That's assault terminators.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I think that i'd tuck a tactical squad in the raider with the army captain. I'll probably give the squad a powerfist, meltagun and plasmacannon. That weighs in at 205 points, the same as a barebones squad with a rhino. So I figure it should do alright with that combination, capable in assault, threatning to vehicles, capable of shooting with that cannon and aimed at taking on medium-heavy infantry.

 

If im taking terminators it'll be a shooting lot with CML which therefore don't need the transport in the first place...I kinda think that the LR + Assault unit idea is too many eggs in 1 basket and dictates the core of the army...

 

Only downside is that i don't think the tacticals could shoot out of the top hatch of the LR can they?

[Meatman]

Only downside is that i don't think the tacticals could shoot out of the top hatch of the LR can they?

 

No fire points, so unfortunetly not :P