Mixed units and Cover saves

[Seahawk]

What determines cover for mixed units where it involves one monstrous creature and a few non-MC's? There are two examples:

 

- Tyranid Hive Tyrant joined with Tyrant Guard

- Necron Tomb Spyder and Scarab Swarms

 

Here are the two options I see:

 

1. Cover is determined as a whole and as normal for "regular" units, like infantry and such. Monstrous Creature tagging along receives equal benefit.

 

2. Cover is determined seperately. The "regular" bits gain cover as normal, but the Monstrous Creature only gains it if it is 50% obscured. (This is what I believe is proper)

 

The only precedent I can find is with vehicle units. Technically they are a unit, but for cover purposes you must determine who gets cover on a model by model basis. What do you think?

[Legatus]

I would say that because normally a monstrous creature can specifically be targeted even if part of a unit, the monstrous creature will not benefit from the cover of the rest of the unit. The creature is targeted independently, so it's cover status is determined independently. The Tyrant on the other hand is with a unit where he cannot be targeted separately, so in this case I would say he does benefit from the majority cover rule. The Tyrant himself might not count as being in cover, since it may not covering 50% or more of him, but if more than half of his unit do count as being in cover, the Tyrant will benefit from it none the less.

[Frosty the Pyro]

I would say that because normally a monstrous creature can specifically be targeted even if part of a unit, the monstrous creature will not benefit from the cover of the rest of the unit. The creature is targeted independently, so it's cover status is determined independently. The Tyrant on the other hand is with a unit where he cannot be targeted separately, so in this case I would say he does benefit from the majority cover rule. The Tyrant himself might not count as being in cover, since it may not covering 50% or more of him, but if more than half of his unit do count as being in cover, the Tyrant will benefit from it none the less.

 

Monsterous creatures cannot be targeted specificly when part of a unit, only independint character monsterous creatures. Neither tomb spider or the Hive tyrant are independent characters and therefor they cannot be independently targeted. So in both cases you follow the standard rule for cover. Determin if you would have cover to each model individualy, then if half or more of the models have cover, the entire unit does. Aditionly a tomb spider with a scarab swarms will have +1 to the cover save. Swarms automaticly have the stealth and vulnerable to blast rules. Stealth is shared amoung a unit as per the most recent FAQ.

 

Oh there is one other way to mix MC and non-MC, Carnifex joined by IC (Alpha warrior or the paraisite). Carnifex are no longer a unit that is always made of one model (they can come in packs of up to three). It is a similar case to thunderfire cannons and techmarine. The techmarine can provide a cover save to the cannon, even it hte cannon is out in the open.

[Dan VK]

Monsterous creatures cannot be targeted specificly when part of a unit, only independint character monsterous creatures. Neither tomb spider or the Hive tyrant are independent characters and therefor they cannot be independently targeted. So in both cases you follow the standard rule for cover. Determin if you would have cover to each model individualy, then if half or more of the models have cover, the entire unit does.

 

:yes:

 

This is how I read the rules, too.

[SeattleDV8]

Monsterous creatures cannot be targeted specificly when part of a unit, only independint character monsterous creatures.

 

Wow, I was all really to cut into you Frosty.

Fortunately I read Pg.45 of the BRB and learned something new, before I made a fool of myself (heh well, a bigger fool).

Thank you, Frosty

[Commander Sasha]

Confirmed. As a new Tyranid player, I was pleasantly surprised by an identical discussion thread on thetyranidhive.com:

 

My dirty great Hive Tyrant stands out in the open, with 1 Tyrant Guard, who just puts his foot behind a bush... and they all get a cover save!

 

Or more to the point, a few gaunts run in front of the Guard, he gets cover from them, thus giving it to Big Mamma.