Thunder wolf base size 60 mm or biker base

[Grizwald714]

I just finished my thunder wolf models. I put them on the 60 mm bases because that what canis wolf born is on and I figured they should be on the same size base. So I took them to a tourney and I got into a big debate with several people what kind of base they should be on some agreed with me that it should be on a 60 mm base because can is is on one but the other people said that it should be on a biker base because they said that under the rules they r Calvary witch means that they should be on a biker base. Then I compared them to blood crushers who r also Calvary and r on the 60 mm bases . Anyway we couldn't agree on what size base they should be on. I was wondering what your opinions r on the subject.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I think everyone I see is on a 60mm :)

[Wildfire]

Board rules state that no "chat" or "leet" speak is allowed. Please refrain from using "r" in place of the word "are" and the like in the future.

[MaveriK]

I just finished my thunder wolf models. I put them on the 60 mm bases because that what canis wolf born is on and I figured they should be on the same size base. So I took them to a tourney and I got into a big debate with several people what kind of base they should be on some agreed with me that it should be on a 60 mm base because can is is on one but the other people said that it should be on a biker base because they said that under the rules they r Calvary witch means that they should be on a biker base. Then I compared them to blood crushers who r also Calvary and r on the 60 mm bases . Anyway we couldn't agree on what size base they should be on. I was wondering what your opinions r on the subject.

 

This has been discussed and heavily debated before, on several occasions and on many trends at the FANG. I suggest looking over them or using the search function. You won't get any clear consensus amongst the masses here and now, just more people arguing just for the sake of arguing! what matters is, and the main difference with this is... you already decided on your base, so now you just need to stand by that decision and follow through. I agree with you on the common sense bit, but unfortunately when it comes to ignorance and lack of common sense in the general sense of everything.. we are all but outnumbered. I apologize if you wanted a general opinion amongst the people here, but I can only see a lengthy discussion that will only lead to more headaches and leave things more unanswered.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

60mm.

 

WLK

[Blarmb]

Whatever you think looks coolest. As there is no Thunderwolf model there is absolutely no basis for making any sort of a statement about what TWC should be on. Some might point at Canis, but he's a special character (and not a proper unit of TWC) with unique rules relating to his base size and a clearly unusual mount fluff-wise. You could mount your TWC on a banana peel and it would precisely as correct a basing choice as any other. A bit messy perhaps but just as correct.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Whatever you think looks coolest. As there is no Thunderwolf model there is absolutely no basis for making any sort of a statement about what TWC should be on. Some might point at Canis, but he's a special character (and not a proper unit of TWC) with unique rules relating to his base size and a clearly unusual mount fluff-wise. You could mount your TWC on a banana peel and it would precisely as correct a basing choice as any other. A bit messy perhaps but just as correct.

 

You are thoroughly correct. It is just popular consensus. I like 60mm as it echoes Canis and the bike base doesn't seem grand enough for such an amazing unit :unsure:

 

I guess the banana peel accounts for fleet? :)

[Spacefrisian]

Since their is no official model for Thunderwolves i suggest to use own interpretation.

 

No a metal character doesnt count as actual model as characters are usually bigger and sometimes mounted on a larger base.

[PKAwolf]

I would point to Canis (as he is the only TWC reference we have) and Khorne Bloodcrushers (as they are a calvary unit that sets some precident that not all Cav has to have the skinny base)

[Haakon Lightfang]

I use 60mm due to the Canis and Bloodcrusher precedent. That being said, you could just as easily mount your brothers on dire wolves with their bike/cavalry bases and be just as "correct" as anyone else (though, IMO, the scale seems kind of wonky.) Until GW actually makes some sort of ruling on it (yeah, right) we'll not know. I'd contact the tournament authority in your area before entering them into any tournament, though. I can imagine how irritated I'd be if I built a list and showed up simply to have my TWC not allowed.

[Tyleesa]

Technically speaking, Bloodcrushers cannot be pointed at for they're infantry, not cavalry... ;)

But it is still possible to put TWC on 60 mm bases. On our local tournaments 60 mm bases are the only ones allowed for TWC at all!..

[Haakon Lightfang]

Technically speaking, Bloodcrushers cannot be pointed at for they're infantry, not cavalry... :D

 

True enough. I didn't realize that.

[Sarapham]

I use 60mm for my Mythicast wolves because; 1. That was the size of the bases that came with them, and 2. They are not anywhere close to fitting on a biker base.. and then you know you have the right size :D

[Taeken]

Be different, modify a base to 53mm and let people try to figure that one out!

 

But in reality I am on the 60mm side.

[paulson games]

I use biker bases for mine as I find them more uniform when compaired to cavarly models. My logic is that bikes and cav use the same bases and the wolves are a cavarly model in concept.

 

Mechanically it's also better to use bike bases as they can be packed in tighter in assault allowing for more wolves to be in contact with the enemy.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

There is only one TWC model on sale at the moment and that comes with a 60mm base.

[paulson games]

There is only one TWC model on sale at the moment and that comes with a 60mm base.

 

No, as pointed out several times he is a special character that rides a thunderwolf, he is not a thunderwolf unit model. Independant characters frequently have larger base sizes than what units use.

 

Standard cavarly and bike models all use the same base. Thunderwolves are cavarly and likewise should be on the same base as bike and cav units.

 

If an opponent was trying to use 60mm bases for his wolves I'd say no because it has a huge impact on the footing of the unit and can be used to deny a much larger area of table space than what cav bases do, and that's seeking an unfair advatage. People wouldn't allow rhinos to be the size of a landraider footprint, why should they allow cav to use something as large as a dreadnought base?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

There is only one TWC model on sale at the moment and that comes with a 60mm base.

 

No, as pointed out several times he is a special character that rides a thunderwolf, he is not a thunderwolf unit model. Independant characters frequently have larger base sizes than what units use.

 

Standard cavarly and bike models all use the same base. Thunderwolves are cavarly and likewise should be on the same base as bike and cav units.

 

If an opponent was trying to use 60mm bases for his wolves I'd say no because it has a huge impact on the footing of the unit and can be used to deny a much larger area of table space than what cav bases do, and that's seeking an unfair advatage. People wouldn't allow rhinos to be the size of a landraider footprint, why should they allow cav to use something as large as a dreadnought base?

 

funny, i think if a opponent says this i am thinking the opposite.

the bike bases fit easier and more models under the template.

 

WLK

[Tyleesa]

There is only one TWC model on sale at the moment and that comes with a 60mm base.

If an opponent was trying to use 60mm bases for his wolves I'd say no because it has a huge impact on the footing of the unit and can be used to deny a much larger area of table space than what cav bases do, and that's seeking an unfair advatage. People wouldn't allow rhinos to be the size of a landraider footprint, why should they allow cav to use something as large as a dreadnought base?

The difference is, there is a rhino model.

 

I, myself, see the solution of the problem this way: there is a ruling that a model can be played with the base it's been bought with. If someone argues against you fielding TWC on biker/60 mm base, just buy a model on the base you need and use the bits of it for decorating your TWC. Then you'll be able to claim you've converted your TWC from a bloodcrusher/killa kan, so you're free to use the base it was sold with as long as there is no ruling that says otherwise.

[paulson games]

The bike base is 25mm wide (1 in), the "60mm" dreadnought/canis base is actually 65mm wide/across (2 in).

 

5 unit set of bike bases blocks off a space 125mm (5 in) if placed all in contact with each other.

 

5 unit size of dread bases blocks off a space of 325mm (12.5 in) if in contact with each other.

 

A unit of dread bases controls an area 2.5 times the size of bike bases, that a huge advantage when contesting table space and also blocking line of sight in order to grant cover to other units.

[breng77]

AS others have said there are no grounds in the rules for what size base a TWC model should be on as no model exists. The only rule concerning base size is that a model must use the base it was supplied with. Well if there is no model that size is left up to interpretation. I would go with if it looks like the base fits the model you are ok. The rules for beasts and cavalry are under the same heading. Looking at models that fit this description: Canis is a cavalry model on a 60mm bases. Rough Riders are on Biker Bases. Tyranid Raveners and Slaanesh Fiends are on Terminator Bases. Based on this you could make an argument for any of these. I think that when GW chooses a base for the model they pick one based on what fits the model best and not much having to do with game terms.

 

Take monsterous creatures as another example. There are MC on bases ranging from Terminator Size to Trygon size (even some that go on flying bases) Unit type is in no way related to base size.

[breng77]

5 unit set of bike bases blocks off a space 125mm (5 in) if placed all in contact with each other.

 

Unless you turn them sideways in which case they are about the same as a bike base is 2+ in long.

[Tyleesa]

A unit of dread bases controls an area 2.5 times the size of bike bases, that a huge advantage when contesting table space and also blocking line of sight to grant cover to other units.

It is the size of the model, not the base, that means when the cover and lines of sight are involved.

[MaveriK]

Like I said earlier in my post.. this isn't going to go anywere :pinch:

 

No, as pointed out several times he is a special character that rides a thunderwolf, he is not a thunderwolf unit model.

 

wait, so let me get this straight.. when someone special rides a named thunderwolf, is not riding a thunderwolf? Okay, I get it now! :P so what constitutes a model to become "a thunderwolf unit model?" no wait, don't you have an option in the Space Wolf codex to have from between one to five models of thunderwolves? so what if I pick one? would that still be considered a thunderwolf unit model?

 

pg. 54 in our codex, Fangir is described as a monstrous Thunderwolf, as strong as a mastodon and as tall at the shoulder as an ice troll.

pg. 34 the description of Thunderwolves in the Thunderwolf Cavalry section says that physically, Thunderwolves are truly monstrous, their anatomies having more in common with terran rhinoceroid.. (bla bla bla) reaching as much as eight feet in height at the shoulder.

 

So thunderwolves both named and normal are both monstrous. The only difference with Fangir is he is ridden by a special character. Sure the codex mentions Fangir is bigger than the other thunderwolves, but as I've underlined in the above examples the difference isn't that much. The only thing that is certain, the thunderwolves along with Fangir artwork/drawings in the codex is better looking than the actual model ;)

 

Independant characters frequently have larger base sizes than what units use.

 

You realize 2nd edition metal terminator models used 25mm bases right? It's only recent that current metal/plastic/resin terminator bases use the 40mm base.

You do realize the only models (excluding chaos daemon HQ's) outside of terminator armour, use 25mm bases right? or I could be wrong here?! I dunno.. what I'm saying is, not all Independant characters have larger base sizes that came along with the model when people bought them.

 

If an opponent was trying to use 60mm bases for his wolves I'd say no because it has a huge impact on the footing of the unit and can be used to deny a much larger area of table space than what cav bases do, and that's seeking an unfair advatage. People wouldn't allow rhinos to be the size of a landraider footprint, why should they allow cav to use something as large as a dreadnought base?

 

The unfair advantage can go both ways if you bother to look at it from both sides, and not in a bias way! <_< as for your rhino APC comment, you do realize their not really to-scale with the current space marine models right? when your suppose to fit 10 marines in a rhino APC. Now try and compare a current rhino with a rogue trader rhino. You'll see a significant size difference.

[paulson games]

If you have a 12.5 in wide unit in front you can hide a lot bigger unit behind it. You can't hide nearly as much behind a 5 in wide unit.

 

Thunderwolf models regardless of who makes it will be much taller than a marine on foot, so any marines on foot behind it will be granted a cover save, the differance is the whole squad or only part of a squad getting cover is how much the unit in front can block line of sight with it's width.

 

Bike bases can block line of sight for a 5-10 man squad if it's two rows deep, dread bases however can block line of sight for a 20 man unit that is only two rows deep.

 

 

Additionally there's no fenrisian wolf models & none included with special characters. So what base to they use? Why not just go ahead and use dread bases for those as well?