Should i go Dark Angel's?

[Master of fact]

Xmas is coming and il be getting new minis and a codex. Currently play Deathguard and dont want to go with a "new" codex.

 

What is the dex like, can it be competitve and what boxsets are available?

 

Thanks!

[hazardousZERO]

From my small experance with the DA the best way to play them is with a Deathwing, Ravenwing or a combo of the two.

[Bartali]

MSU Ravenwing is probably the last truly competitive build left in the codex, with a fairly hefty melta/plasma alpha strike capability. The ravenwing battleforce is probably one of the best value sets around too.

[skink]

I've been collecting DA for years, but have only just started playing them. I've had a consistently improving run with a Deathwing/Greenwing army at 1000 points (now up to 1500) against a well established Eldar player - personally I'm too clumsy and inexperienced to play Ravenwing properly.

 

As for the sets, there aren't many DA exlusive ones around - lots of great metal 'character' figures though. The DA upgrade set is brilliant IMO - 10 robed bodies and a host of weapons and bits to customise marines and vehicles alike.

[Grand Master Belial]

What to add, hmmmm...

 

Well there will always be the background to pull you in. You can also have the option with the DA to play them as Space Marines and use another Codex but still use the same minis for a cost effective alternative. The character minis are standing up well to the test of time though a few characters lost their rules.

[pueriexdeus]

In real life we are the only Chapter that is so passionate that we will generate hundreds of pages on woulda, coulda, shoulda. See Project Unforgiven.

 

I mean really, what other Chapter has real life drama and trauma spilling over into this reality. :sick:

[Master of fact]

Well i just bought the codex, so im in!

 

I enjoyed the horus heresy books about them, i know some dont rate them though!

[IanSturrock]

We are definitely at a slight competitive disadvantage compared to pretty much all the other Space Marine chapters. Most of our stuff costs more than theirs (sometimes a *lot* more). This effectively means that our options are more limited than those found in most other books, if we want to stay at least a little competitive. As mentioned above, multiple small units Ravenwing seems about the best bet right now, but there are other workable builds.

 

On the upside, we have gorgeous miniatures, a detailed and fascinating background, and a very cool fan community. Plus, of course, if you want to you can just use a different codex for competitive play, and have your Dark Angels army count-as Space Marines (or even Blood Angels or Space Wolves).

[Tanhausen]

Greenwing (power armour marines) are not that competitive because as said, others can do it better and cheaper.

 

Deathwing (terminators) have to include Belial in order to make them Troops instead of Elites. They are tough and hit pretty hard, but we lack a good rate of high strength fire and have a low body count. When it works, we wreck havoc.... when it doesn't, we get tabled (although inflicting damage).

 

Ravenwing (bikes) have to include Sammael in order to make them Troops instead of Elites. They are fast and if used properly (which is hard) they cannot be caugt in Close combat while you distract and shoot from mid range. The problem is again that they don pack high rate of high strength shots.

 

That is a very summarized concept of the 3 main armies we can run, for further knowledge... check out the whole subforum :P

 

Hope it helps!

[LardO'Blood]

Greenwing (power armour marines) are not that competitive because as said, others can do it better and cheaper.

 

Deathwing (terminators) have to include Belial in order to make them Troops instead of Elites. They are tough and hit pretty hard, but we lack a good rate of high strength fire and have a low body count. When it works, we wreck havoc.... when it doesn't, we get tabled (although inflicting damage).

 

Ravenwing (bikes) have to include Sammael in order to make them Troops instead of Elites. They are fast and if used properly (which is hard) they cannot be caugt in Close combat while you distract and shoot from mid range. The problem is again that they don pack high rate of high strength shots.

 

That is a very summarized concept of the 3 main armies we can run, for further knowledge... check out the whole subforum -_-

 

Hope it helps!

Tanhausen summed it up pretty well.

I do find however that Greenwing can be pretty bad apple when you combine 5 man special weapons quads and Deathwing at smallish points - If you go the path of the Greenwing, then you should use Rites of Battle, venerable dreadnoughts and 5 man tacticals with special weapons to their full potential. Probably the best wing-combo is DeathRaven. Deathwing can DWA on accurately with the scouting Ravenwing bikes and then unleash hell. It is probably the only way to play Dark Angels competitively. Maybe if you have nice dice then pure Ravenwing can do well. Deathwing are almost always fun to play, they just lack very much firepower, so nice when combined with Greenwing or Ravenwing. I prefer using lots of special weapons and dreadnoughts from Greenwing.

[IanSturrock]

A combined Deathwing/Ravenwing force can work, but the DW units are a lot more expensive, for what you get, than the Ravenwing ones.

 

Typical DW squad -- sergeant with power weapon / storm bolter, 2 termies with power fist / storm bolter, 1 with chain fist / storm bolter, 1 with assault cannon / storm bolter. Costs 250 pts. Brings five wounds to the table with T4 and 2+ armour. Slow movement (but can Deep Strike). Quite effective in CC, but will find it very difficult to get the charge. At anything up to 24" range, 8 x S4 shots, 4 x S6 rending shots. Very limited tankbusting ability (pray for a rend, or use CC).

 

Now, for just 200 pts in Ravenwing, you can have a 3-man bike squad with 2 plasma guns, plus a multimelta attack bike. Less effective against hordes, but considerably more effective against elite infantry or vehicles (4 x twin-linked S4 shots, plus five S7-8 AP1-2 shots, at 12"; or 2 x S4 twin-linked, plus 3 S7-8 AP1-2 shots, at 24"), both of which you will generally see more of than you will hordes (plus, really, you will include some RW units that have 2 flamers instead of 2 plasma guns, and they will eat up hordes easily). Way better maneuverability (12" move, relentless, plus the option to turbo boost when you need it, plus even more flexible deployment options with either scout move or outflank). Almost as survivable, or possibly even more survivable if used with care (5 wounds again; only 3+ armour, but T5 rather than T4; no invulnerable save, but 3+ cover save on turbo-boosting; greater maneuverability in general should mean you can pick your fights and not get shot at by as much of the enemy's army). Fold like thin paper in close combat, but that's not their role, and again, they have the maneuverability to avoid it.

 

At a typical 1500 pts, after buying the two required HQ choices (Sammael and Belial), a Deathwing/Ravenwing combined army has enough points left for either two of the above RW units and three DW units, or vice versa.

 

Alternatively, at 1500 pts, you can have Sammael and six of the above RW units, plus points to spare for a 2nd HQ like a Librarian biker, or for a couple of Landspeeder Typhoons to sit at the back and take hordes out... this kind of army is just more points-efficient than the DeathRaven one. That's not to say DeathRaven can't work, but personally I've found it less competitive than pure RW.

[Tanhausen]

I haven't play that much bikes (only 3 bikers + AB in my DW list) and they had a 100% support role.

 

But I agree that even at 2k, 2 HQ for 335 points is quite pricey and that you end up not being quite able to neither "runnning around" nor "hammer and anvil" properly.

 

I've been thinking along the lines...

 

Belial

Sammael in LS

DW (HF, CF) + LRC

DW (HF, CF) + LRC

4 x 3 bikes double special (melta, plasma) + 2 AB with MM

 

45 points to spend... probably an apothecary.

 

6 scoring units, 3 AV14, terminators in a infantry/swarm control task, bikes in a tank/heavy infantry hunting role.

 

What I don't like is not having any weapon above S8... so vs monoliths or T8+ creatures (not that many, to be honest), I'd be sold out...

 

Just thinking out loud :)

[IanSturrock]

I would maximise the number of attack bikes rather than getting more regular bikers... the main purpose of the 3-man bike squads is to unlock another attack bike!

 

Compare the costs:

 

3 bikes with 2 meltas = 140 pts... call it 50 pts for each melta bike and 40 pts for the sarge.

1 attack bike with multimelta = 50 pts, for twice as many wounds as the single bike, and twice the range on the main weapon. (This is actually a bargain even compared to the attack bikes in Codex Space Marines -- ours cost the same, but get to outflank or scout move too.) Each of those attack bikes, outflanking, threatens *half the board* when it comes on (12" move + 24" multimelta range), or one-third of the board (12" move + 12" range) for the +2d6 attack with the multimelta. If you get 1st turn, with 12" scout move + 12" move + range you should be able to threaten anything in the enemy army, and even have a fair chance of side shots. The attack bikes are the real stars of a RW army.

 

I do like the idea of the two LRCs and two DW squads though -- decent bit of mobility, there. Load them all up with twin LCs except for the chainfist/flamer guy, and you have two very powerful units. Plus, you're making your enemy choose between shooting his high-S, low-AP weaponry at your attack bikes for instant kills, or at your LRCs to stop your CC madness...

[Tanhausen]

But I only own 2 AB... :D

 

Please please please, don't let me fall for ANOTHER RW Battleforce... xD

 

Sorry for the OT :D